Jack Harrison- Stick or twist

[Irish Ian]

Most wingers are inconsistent.
Unless they are consistently awful of course.

In fact it is hard the name a creative player who doesn't go through peaks and troughs.

[Irish Ian]

So far over half want him even sold.

Creatively we are doing really well.

[lufc1304]

Ian makes a good point re the inconsistency of wingers. Look at Raphina, patchy for us, called out by the Barca press more than once already this season and has been distinctly average in the WC. Nature of the beast.

If Marsch is going to be around for the forseeable, then I'd be inclined to sell as Jack will almost be surplus to requirements in a JM system. And, if we need to sell to buy, then he is, in all likelihood, our most sellable asset who we might not miss.

[Sara]

Well, Faaip & Sara don't think so.

I must be watching Jack in a different light.

Also contradicts your notion that his 'head has been turned', if his current form is in line with his ongoing inconsistency.

As you say yourself, you're just making an assumption that he wants the move, and it's a further leap still to attribute his struggles to a lack of commitment rather than playing out of position in a narrow system.

Jack has always been a very motivated, hard working player, putting in extra training over the summer etc. Does he not also have psychological coaching? He doesn't at all seem the type to let standards drop if there was interest from another club.

We know his best position is wide left, where his talent lies in receiving accurate long passes with a great first touch, retaining the ball, beating defenders, and passing into the box. His current position on the right of a crowded midfield, where the ball is pinging about at random in front of a packed defence doesn't utilise any of his strengths. Rather than being 'a stick with which to beat Marsch', it's far more logical to see his poor play as due to the change in system and position.

Also, if Jack is deemed good enough by Newcastle, who are 'going places', why is he surplus to requirement for unambitious little Leeds?

[Sara]

If Marsch is going to be around for the forseeable, then I'd be inclined to sell as Jack will almost be surplus to requirements in a JM system.

Or, if we sell Jack in January and Marsch has us in the bottom three at the end of February, so we bring in a new coach who doesn't play that system... because no one does. Meanwhile Jack is flying at top six Newcastle...

It all seems incredibly short sighted to me. The more we Marschify the squad, the more of a rebuild we'll need when he's gone. He's survived the sack because of a couple of good results, but he's still very much on probation imo.

[The Subhuman]

Jack is a get to the bye line player naturally, that's what the difference is. He's at his most dangerous wide and able to use his left foot, he's much less effective if he's narrower forced to come in onto his left which basically only really leaves an option to shoot from distance or a lay off.. He will get better playing the inverted midfielder but it's gonna take time.. We've taken away his strengths...

[Jaydog]

Ian makes a good point re the inconsistency of wingers. Look at Raphina, patchy for us, called out by the Barca press more than once already this season and has been distinctly average in the WC. Nature of the beast.

If Marsch is going to be around for the forseeable, then I'd be inclined to sell as Jack will almost be surplus to requirements in a JM system. And, if we need to sell to buy, then he is, in all likelihood, our most sellable asset who we might not miss.

Thought Raph was back in top form v Korea but I see your point. Inconsistent wingers.

[weasel]

Or, if we sell Jack in January and Marsch has us in the bottom three at the end of February, so we bring in a new coach who doesn't play that system... because no one does. Meanwhile Jack is flying at top six Newcastle...

It all seems incredibly short sighted to me. The more we Marschify the squad, the more of a rebuild we'll need when he's gone. He's survived the sack because of a couple of good results, but he's still very much on probation imo.

The short sightedness is very worrying. In hiring Marsch the supposed theory was that he was similar to Bielsa but this has proved completely untrue - the only real similarity is that we run a lot. I'm not concerned too much with the players incoming as you'd hope they could fit into any system, certainly with Adams, Aaronsen and RK playing international football they aren't simply one-trick Red Bull ponies - although given our greatest needs I wouldn't have spent the money we did on RK and would have given Drameh the chance with Ayling as the insurance policy if Drameh didn't succeed. The concern is the players we sell and in the case of Harrison, despite his inconsistency, it is telling that a club higher than us is interested, it does seem the biggest issue is that he is unsuited to the Marsch model but under a different manager would likely have a role that suits him more. For all people go on about his inconsistency his stats were very similar to Raphinha's and there is a reason why a club that have a realistic ability to buy any of 99.0% of players in the world are interested in him. The concern is that we'll be plummeting to the championship whilst JH is tearing it up at St James's Park.

The only reasons I'd sell JH is if he has either indicated he is not signing a new contract no matter what or if JM's tactics were doing so well that there was no chance of us looking to replace the manager in the near future.

[Cjay]

Should be remembered that Newcastle see Harrison as a backup.

His direct competition is Alain Saint Maximin on the left at Newcastle, not a hope of starting ahead of him when fit.

Harrison is very much a Chris Wood, Matt Targett type signing for them, he is a stepping stone /backup player.

This is a team who still uses Ryan Fraser as backup winger so that is basically who Harrison would be in competition with (doesn't sound so impressive now)

If he was anything more they would have offered much more than £20/25mil.

There is the possibility that Newcastle have progressed much faster than they expected this season and they may have there sights set higher up the league signings wise.

They've been linked to Marcus Thuram for example who is capable of playing left wing and crucially is much more versatile than Harrison.

Or Ghana World Cup star Kamaldeen Sulemana, whose younger and again more versatile.

That imo is something that goes against Harrison. You can't be a 1 trick pony at the top level anymore.

The day of the 1 position winger is gone, Ryan Giggs, Marc Overmars, David Beckham, they don't exist anymore.

Everyone is expected to be versatile or at the very least be able to play on both wings if needed

Have a preference but be able to perform elsewhere

Harrison can't and imo that goes against him.

So maybe Newcastle won't even be interested anymore?

Could they get better value abroad anyway? More versatile, younger, better end product?

Possibly

[1964white]

Thought Raph was back in top form v Korea but I see your point. Inconsistent wingers.

Back to his best, Jay

Inconsistent at Leeds, although we'd have gone down last season without Raphinha & Marsch (in those final 12 matches)

[DDB220]

It is a tough question at this point in the season. Whilst he is erratic on the pitch, the same can be said about a number of players.
Personally I believe It would weaken the squad considerably to sell JH in the next window. The suggested narrative that we use the money to buy a quality replacement is fanciful unless there is a replacement lined up.
Having loaned out James the sale of Harrison during the season will not have even been a consideration.
Whether he is happy to remain at the club or whether he cannot adapt to our current tactics is immaterial, he is under contract and from what I have seen a model professional.
Talk of dispensing with perceived deadwood from a squad that has a bench filled with kids more often than not, is ludicrous IMO.
I do not see a long term future for Harrison at the club but to sell now does not make sense.
We will need depth to stay up and some additions.

[lufc1304]

Or, if we sell Jack in January and Marsch has us in the bottom three at the end of February, so we bring in a new coach who doesn't play that system... because no one does. Meanwhile Jack is flying at top six Newcastle...

It all seems incredibly short sighted to me. The more we Marschify the squad, the more of a rebuild we'll need when he's gone. He's survived the sack because of a couple of good results, but he's still very much on probation imo.

Don't disagree, Sara, but this club has a history of being short sighted. And if we have to sell to buy in Jan, he's the most likely candidate to be offered up. Marsch will get a bye for City and Newcastle, but if results go bad again beyond that, then it's hard to argue he won't be vulnerable. He's our manager, so he gets my support, but I'm far from convinced.

[1964white]

It is a tough question at this point in the season. Whilst he is erratic on the pitch, the same can be said about a number of players.
Personally I believe It would weaken the squad considerably to sell JH in the next window. The suggested narrative that we use the money to buy a quality replacement is fanciful unless there is a replacement lined up.
Having loaned out James the sale of Harrison during the season will not have even been a consideration.
Whether he is happy to remain at the club or whether he cannot adapt to our current tactics is immaterial, he is under contract and from what I have seen a model professional.
Talk of dispensing with perceived deadwood from a squad that has a bench filled with kids more often than not, is ludicrous IMO.
I do not see a long term future for Harrison at the club but to sell now does not make sense.
We will need depth to stay up and some additions.

You've made some good reasons for retaining Jack until at least the summer, DDB

[Cjay]

Back to his best, Jay

Inconsistent at Leeds, although we'd have gone down last season without Raphinha & Marsch (in those final 12 matches)

Inconsistent or let down by those around him and then tried to do to much to rectify it?

In both seasons here he featured top 10 for chances and big chances created in the league.

None of our other players were close.

[SG90]

Keep till the summer.

He's done nothing to deserve doubling of his wages, which would put him on £120k a week. Looks like the board will have learned nothing from the Bamfraud debacle, if we overpay wages to an average player and long contract.

I'm not convinced that the money would go towards a new signing anyway. We have had a -£11m net spend and are still told there's no money for January. I believe we need a certain number of English players as well in the squad.

Too many posts saying he'd be a star for Newcastle, when in reality they wanted him for homegrown numbers, not as a key player. They only offered a small amount for him after all. His lack of consistency isn't a fault of Marsch either, he was the same under Bielsa.

Come the summer, he'll have one year left and be worth around £15m. If we're in a 4th season of PL, we surely can't be that desperate for the money and that skint, and if we go down, he'll leave anyway.

[Jaydog]

Keep till the summer.

He's done nothing to deserve doubling of his wages, which would put him on £120k a week. Looks like the board will have learned nothing from the Bamfraud debacle, if we overpay wages to an average player and long contract.

I'm not convinced that the money would go towards a new signing anyway. We have had a -£11m net spend and are still told there's no money for January. I believe we need a certain number of English players as well in the squad.

Too many posts saying he'd be a star for Newcastle, when in reality they wanted him for homegrown numbers, not as a key player. They only offered a small amount for him after all. His lack of consistency isn't a fault of Marsch either, he was the same under Bielsa.

Come the summer, he'll have one year left and be worth around £15m. If we're in a 4th season of PL, we surely can't be that desperate for the money and that skint, and if we go down, he'll leave anyway.

I’m sure that’s most likely true. That JH is the same player now as he was under Bielsa performance level wise.
It’s been suggested (Faaip possibly?) that he may adapt to his new position/usage given time.

[1964white]

Keep till the summer.

He's done nothing to deserve doubling of his wages, which would put him on £120k a week. Looks like the board will have learned nothing from the Bamfraud debacle, if we overpay wages to an average player and long contract.

I'm not convinced that the money would go towards a new signing anyway. We have had a -£11m net spend and are still told there's no money for January. I believe we need a certain number of English players as well in the squad.

Too many posts saying he'd be a star for Newcastle, when in reality they wanted him for homegrown numbers, not as a key player. They only offered a small amount for him after all. His lack of consistency isn't a fault of Marsch either, he was the same under Bielsa.

Come the summer, he'll have one year left and be worth around £15m. If we're in a 4th season of PL, we surely can't be that desperate for the money and that skint, and if we go down, he'll leave anyway.

Strange how some on here haven't noticed his inconsistency under Marcelo

[1964white]

I’m sure that’s most likely true. That JH is the same player now as he was under Bielsa performance level wise.
It’s been suggested (Faaip possibly?) that he may adapt to his new position/usage given time.

Unsure Jack is clever enough to adapt, I like to think he could in time, Jay. The thing is with Jack even when he's playing as an out & out winger he likes to beat the same player two or three times, he has no chance doing that playing more narrow. Only time will tell how Jack fares at Leeds or elsewhere!

[1964white]

Inconsistent or let down by those around him and then tried to do to much to rectify it?

In both seasons here he featured top 10 for chances and big chances created in the league.

None of our other players were close.

I wish we could have kept Raphinha, no chance once Barcelona came sniffing.

[White Riot]

Should be remembered that Newcastle see Harrison as a backup.

His direct competition is Alain Saint Maximin on the left at Newcastle, not a hope of starting ahead of him when fit.

Harrison is very much a Chris Wood, Matt Targett type signing for them, he is a stepping stone /backup player.

This is a team who still uses Ryan Fraser as backup winger so that is basically who Harrison would be in competition with (doesn't sound so impressive now)

If he was anything more they would have offered much more than £20/25mil.

There is the possibility that Newcastle have progressed much faster than they expected this season and they may have there sights set higher up the league signings wise.

They've been linked to Marcus Thuram for example who is capable of playing left wing and crucially is much more versatile than Harrison.

Or Ghana World Cup star Kamaldeen Sulemana, whose younger and again more versatile.

That imo is something that goes against Harrison. You can't be a 1 trick pony at the top level anymore.

The day of the 1 position winger is gone, Ryan Giggs, Marc Overmars, David Beckham, they don't exist anymore.

Everyone is expected to be versatile or at the very least be able to play on both wings if needed

Have a preference but be able to perform elsewhere

Harrison can't and imo that goes against him.

So maybe Newcastle won't even be interested anymore?

Could they get better value abroad anyway? More versatile, younger, better end product?

Possibly

Don't you mean Chris Woods