Big Sam

[malcolmw]

Allerdyce wasn`t better than Gracia or Marsch in my eyes. One worse than the other. The squad unbelievably poor...but also down to the coaches of course.

The squad was by no means the worst in the league. The problem was having to try to make sense - on the field of 5 different managers systems in a year. You can't possibly be cohesive as a unit when you keep having to do constant U-turns.

This was far less a player thing than a management / decisions thing.

Marsh was an idiot, way out of his depth. If you want to look at manager decisions, maybe - in hindsight - we should have had more faith in Bielsa, but given him more resources to add to the squad. His style is hard on players - he has to have a bigger squad.

[malcolmw]

I'm baffled as to why he didn't sell at the end of last season. He admitted that he didn't have the resources any more. There was already a time frame in place to leave. He didn't stay for love of our club. He basically left us in limbo for a year. And that makes no sense.

Because he couldn't find a buyer for the price he wanted. It's all about cash-flow - and only 2 seasons in, ours was risky.

[malcolmw]

I know everyone is upset but do you really question the motives of those who make the decisions?

I know it wont be popular but its a bit OTT to think along those lines.

Allardyce cost himself a couple of million in a pay day and Radz cost himself probably £125-150M

Sam just made 100% more than he thought he was going to make over the past couple of months.

[malcolmw]

I am 100% sure that we would not have done worse if Marsch had not been sacked - in fact we may have done quite a bit better. 3 managers since that time, but some still think that we have decent players but lousy managers.

At least under Marsch we looked capable of posing some attacking threat.

You have got to be kidding??
March was an idiot, who had nothing to offer but hot air from day 1 - and brought in players totally ill-fit for the task.

He had no idea what he was getting in to. Which is not entirely his fault - it speaks to the out-of-touch idiots who thought he could do the job in the first place, and even opened up a conversation with him.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

You have got to be kidding??
March was an idiot, who had nothing to offer but hot air from day 1 - and brought in players totally ill-fit for the task.

He had no idea what he was getting in to. Which is not entirely his fault - it speaks to the out-of-touch idiots who thought he could do the job in the first place, and even opened up a conversation with him.

Like I said - at least we had some attacking potency under Marsch. If he brought in Adams, then that wasn't too bad. I don't know who was responsible for Roca or McKennie.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

The squad was by no means the worst in the league. The problem was having to try to make sense - on the field of 5 different managers systems in a year. You can't possibly be cohesive as a unit when you keep having to do constant U-turns.

This was far less a player thing than a management / decisions thing.

Marsh was an idiot, way out of his depth. If you want to look at manager decisions, maybe - in hindsight - we should have had more faith in Bielsa, but given him more resources to add to the squad. His style is hard on players - he has to have a bigger squad.

Very likely we would have been relegated under Bielsa - the players were completely demoralised after all those batterings with his crazy man marking system.

[Bally]

Big Sam can moan about whatever he likes but he fucked up today with his team selection and tactics

[malcolmw]

Like I said - at least we had some attacking potency under Marsch. If he brought in Adams, then that wasn't too bad. I don't know who was responsible for Roca or McKennie.

Adams not a great as we all thought in the grand scheme of things.
Our so-called attacking potency was at the expense of one of the worst defences in the league. If you're going to concede 2 or 3 per game, you have to be more than decent in attack. We weren't that decent. Adams has high work rate (like Aaronson) but relatively poor read of the game. Just further proof of Marsh being out of his depth.

Those who are saying we could build a new squad around Adams are crazy. He won't last 2 months in the Championship. Millwall, 'Boro and the likes will eat him for breakfast.

We now need players who can withstand some knocks. None of the 3 Americans fit that description - they're precious. Get rid of them. They have their talents, but not what we need - and they don't really seem to play for the shirt first either.

[malcolmw]

Very likely we would have been relegated under Bielsa - the players were completely demoralised after all those batterings with his crazy man marking system.

Not sure I agree. The players were exhausted more than anything - hence the mounting injuries. What we needed was to build the squad after season 1 after promotion. In hindsight Bielsa likely has to take some blame for that, but how musy was ownership not giving him the support to build and add players who could be a good fit.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I believe if we'd have added 4 or 5 good signings after that season, we'd have had an equally good second season, and would never had heard of Jesse f***ing March.

[Ackermann]

The squad was by no means the worst in the league. The problem was having to try to make sense - on the field of 5 different managers systems in a year. You can't possibly be cohesive as a unit when you keep having to do constant U-turns.

This was far less a player thing than a management / decisions thing.

Marsh was an idiot, way out of his depth. If you want to look at manager decisions, maybe - in hindsight - we should have had more faith in Bielsa, but given him more resources to add to the squad. His style is hard on players - he has to have a bigger squad.

Given our injuries only partially correct. No decent left or right back defender. No good CD, poor defensive midfield without Adams etc. Meslier making more and more mistakes...Robles backup at best. You want to keep Ayling, Kristensen, Struijk, Cooper, Firpo, Robles...just for starters? They are all shyte in my eyes. Of course the players had probably the worst stamina of all teams. The way we fell apart second half of games the longer the season went was obvious.

[Phild]

For me the squad was THE worst in the league.
Defense, goals conceded says it all.
Midfield, not an ounce of creativity or goal threat.
Forward, how easy must Bamford and Rodrigo to play against at premier league level.

[John in Louisiana]

Adams not a great as we all thought in the grand scheme of things.
Our so-called attacking potency was at the expense of one of the worst defences in the league. If you're going to concede 2 or 3 per game, you have to be more than decent in attack. We weren't that decent. Adams has high work rate (like Aaronson) but relatively poor read of the game. Just further proof of Marsh being out of his depth.

Those who are saying we could build a new squad around Adams are crazy. He won't last 2 months in the Championship. Millwall, 'Boro and the likes will eat him for breakfast.

We now need players who can withstand some knocks. None of the 3 Americans fit that description - they're precious. Get rid of them. They have their talents, but not what we need - and they don't really seem to play for the shirt first either.

That's ridiculous.

Compare the number of goals we conceded before Adams was hurt to the number we conceded afterwards. He was our best player this year by a long shot.

So you're saying he was good enough for the EPL but not good enough for the Championship?

Adams won't be around next season because he's too good for the Championship. Somebody in a top league will snap him up.

[John in Louisiana]

The squad was by no means the worst in the league. The problem was having to try to make sense - on the field of 5 different managers systems in a year. You can't possibly be cohesive as a unit when you keep having to do constant U-turns.

This was far less a player thing than a management / decisions thing.

Marsh was an idiot, way out of his depth. If you want to look at manager decisions, maybe - in hindsight - we should have had more faith in Bielsa, but given him more resources to add to the squad. His style is hard on players - he has to have a bigger squad.

It was Bielsa himself who wanted the small squad.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

It was Bielsa himself who wanted the small squad.

The decline which ultimately led to relegation began when the players came back for pre season training for the second season back in the PL. Something wasn't right - probably the players were exhausted after 3 seasons of Bielsaball without any squad rotation due to the miniscule size of the squad. Pre season friendly results were poor and the players looked totally out of form. Plus the extreme training regime had started to take its toll on the bodies of players such as Bamford and Phillips.

I would guess that the state of mind of the players back then was rather like a child on its summer school holidays dreading going back to school after the holidays and having to deal again with a really stern, strict and demanding class teacher.

Apart from some very brief new manager bounces, that decline has accelerated since that pre season - but the point is that it began then.

[SG90]

I am 100% sure that we would not have done worse if Marsch had not been sacked - in fact we may have done quite a bit better. 3 managers since that time, but some still think that we have decent players but lousy managers.

At least under Marsch we looked capable of posing some attacking threat.

Marsch actually won more games than the three after him combined. I know some want to pin all the blame on him, but we've only got worse since.

[SG90]

I'm in two minds about keeping him on. We need an experienced manager, rather than some fancy foreign hipster imo, but idk if he's the right man. Struggling to think who'd be a good appointment at this stage.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Marsch actually won more games than the three after him combined. I know some want to pin all the blame on him, but we've only got worse since.

Good point. It's hard now to believe that we beat Liverpool and Chelsea early in the season with these players. Since Marsch was sacked we have had absolutely zero attacking potency, and Gnonto has done nothing since.

I'm amazed at how Marsch been used as a scapegoat. I pin the biggest blame squarely on Orta, and Radz failing to realise what a useless DOF he had.

[malcolmw]

That's ridiculous.

Compare the number of goals we conceded before Adams was hurt to the number we conceded afterwards. He was our best player this year by a long shot.

So you're saying he was good enough for the EPL but not good enough for the Championship?

Adams won't be around next season because he's too good for the Championship. Somebody in a top league will snap him up.

What I'm saying is the Championship is far more brutal than the Premier League. If you gave me a choice between Adams and a player who has grown and succeeded in the Championship, I'd take the latter.
Also, the stats don't tell everything. To say he was responsible for us conceding fewer goals is a fraction of the story. We were gradually unravelling. In our first few games under Marsh we still had decent shape. Then his 'so-called' system started to take effect and we started leaked goals at an astonishing rate.

I don't deny Adams is a good player with great work rate. But this 'too good for the Championship' thing is a bunch of BS. Most of our current young players' careers would benefit long-term from a season or two in the Championship.
But you're right - someone will buy Adams - which many will think will be good for him - that depends where he goes. If he heads off to Austria or a lowly team in Italy, Spain or Holland, he wont grow half as much - just my opinion.

[Cjay]

giphy-3.gif (4.67 MiB) Viewed 299 times

Talks with who exactly?

Radz?
49ers?
Tea lady?
Groundsman?

[Jaydog]

Talks with all the old Bolton players I think. Kevin Nolan etc.
Get the old gang back together. f**k penalty practice it’ll be long throw practice and long ball training