Southampton post match discussion

[weasel]

Sorry Weasel but for some reason you've attached yourself to this manager and are just happy to make excuses for him which you'd have never done for anyone else bar Bielsa.

Why does his difficult summer now extend till the end of September? That's a new one, most people had happily accepted August but now we write off September as well?

Nobody even his biggest fans had suggested he got the whole of September off as well until he mentioned it the other day.

Meslier
Ayling
Shacks
Struijk
Rodon
Gray
Ampadu
Summerville
Gnonto
Piroe
Rutter
Kamara
Spence

Team that played Sheffield Wednesday before Danny Rohl rescued them, September 2nd, that team not good enough either?

Does he get to write off two months as he is the only manager whose had a less than ideal Summer? Mark Robins was winning multiple promotions when Coventry had no home and fan protests.

But all of a sudden Daniel Farke is allowed to blame not the relegation form of the last 7,8 games but the whole 2 months at the start of the season?

We all know why it's extended until September and nobody even mentioned it until Farke did recently.

Because if you cancel August we still aren't top 2 anymore.

We were 2nd after Swansea in February, know when we dropped out next? After we drew with relegated Huddersfield.

Got back in after Wendies win, dropped out? After drawing with 15 placed Watford

People can bang on about August or September or both but we had it in our own hands multiple times since.

Beat a Sunderland side in free fall? No

Or a Blackburn side that finished 19th? Nope

Or perhaps even last change saloon vs QPR? Nope.

The fact anyone especially as sensible a poster as you is happily swallowing these excuses is absolutely ludicrous.

The summer didn't stop us, dropped points 6 months later vs bottom half teams did.

Yes it did. Like I have said since the end of October we have got more points than Leicester and Ipswich. That is despite us dropping points to the teams you mentioned and the terrible recent run. Those 2 sides had the momentum and it was ultimately enough to see them home despite their hiccups. By the time we got our momentum we were playing catch up and yes we caught up but having to play with huge pressure every week knowing a bad result could be terminal eventually caught up to us - maybe it was the fact that we got to the front when we did.

[Cjay]

Yes it did. Like I have said since the end of October we have got more points than Leicester and Ipswich. That is despite us dropping points to the teams you mentioned and the terrible recent run. Those 2 sides had the momentum and it was ultimately enough to see them home despite their hiccups. By the time we got our momentum we were playing catch up and yes we caught up but having to play with huge pressure every week knowing a bad result could be terminal eventually caught up to us - maybe it was the fact that we got to the front when we did.

I'm glad you bought this up.

Pressure, think Warnock mentioned it, possibly Allardyce as well.

Phil mentioned it in his articles and possibly even his book.

The pressure of managing LUFC is unlike practically any other club.

It's been hard enough for promotion specialists like Warnock, even Javi Gracia has a perfectly decent managerial cv as well.

But all of them struggled and ultimately failed here.

Whether Farke failed or ultimately fails is upto opinion and eventual outcome.

But the managers who got us success?

Revie played for us.
Grayson was a fan and boyhood player.
Armfield was an experienced international and World Cup winner.
Wilko may be the exception to the rule but Wendies are a historically successful club with a large fanbase.
O'Leary was a playing icon for a big club and very successful player at the top level for decades.
Bielsa of course had many years where literal countries relied on him and Marseille and Bilbao are huge clubs in their own respective countries.

The managers who succeeded here or atleast looked back on fondly for their achievements all (bar maybe Wilko) had either playing careers at big clubs or international level, grew up as fans, played for us, or had managed internationally or at comparatively large clubs elsewhere.

DF has none of these backgrounds.

He wasn't anything special as a player, never played for a historically big club, he only managed 1 Borussia Mönchengladbach who are a historically large club in Germany and he got sacked after 1 season.

His only success in his managerial career came at Norwich, a yoyo club who at the time were on record for being proud to be a top 26 club in England.

That is a real aim from Norwich football club from when DF was there and before.

Can you imagine the reaction in our fanbase if Angus Kinnear said that? But that was the expectation of Daniel Farke at Norwich.

For basically his entire spell, the narrative only changes in 2021 when the DOF expressed the wish to be a top 17 club, soon after sacking Farke for his performance.

So for the only successful periods in his career he was expected to make the playoffs, anything more was a bonus which he managed.

But aslong as the playoffs were achieved for basically his entire Norwich spell it was fine and the pressure was off.

We are very different as a club, historically, size wise and yes expectation wise from the fanbase.

A great strength but I'd imagine very much part of the pressure factor.

I think (you probably disagree) but I think DF has very much started to feel the pressure of our club now.

He's started to talk like every other manager we've had before when it's a bit rocky and look equally rattled.

Is the unique pressure of the club maybe proving difficult for someone whose never had that before? Perhaps

He wouldn't be the first or the last.

This is a very long winded post my apologies

What I'm trying to ask or say is, does it maybe take a very unique type to ultimately succeed here?

Someone who either understands the pressure from being a player here or one of us as a fan?

Or someone who experienced the expectations of big clubs big pressure as a manager or player elsewhere?

Because as Phil said in one of his articles LUFC is unique and its not like managing a Norwich.

It's broken more experienced and proven managers than DF before.

[Irish Ian]

So a club which has failed to gain promotion in all 4 of its previous play off involvements starting from 1987, fielding a team which has been in relegation form over the last 8 matches. I mean what could possibly go wrong ??

IMO many of the current problems are a lingering legacy and handicap of the poor recruitment in the recent past. Our two worst performers today ( Rutter and Firpo) cost the best part of £45m. At least Jordan Miles will be taking over in future with the recruitment. Thank goodness, as it's a fundamental aspect of becoming a successful club which LUFC simply has to improve on.

Nice to see you back, nothing like a crisis you see you come banging your drum.

[Jammy 07]

I think (you probably disagree) but I think DF has very much started to feel the pressure of our club now.

It's broken more experienced and proven managers than DF before.

Farke is not broken though...not yet at least.

An honourable Wembley defeat would be seen as an acceptable first season by most people so maybe let's see how this plays out before erecting the gallows.

[weasel]

I'm glad you bought this up.

Pressure, think Warnock mentioned it, possibly Allardyce as well.

Phil mentioned it in his articles and possibly even his book.

The pressure of managing LUFC is unlike practically any other club.

It's been hard enough for promotion specialists like Warnock, even Javi Gracia has a perfectly decent managerial cv as well.

But all of them struggled and ultimately failed here.

Whether Farke failed or ultimately fails is upto opinion and eventual outcome.

But the managers who got us success?

Revie played for us.
Grayson was a fan and boyhood player.
Armfield was an experienced international and World Cup winner.
Wilko may be the exception to the rule but Wendies are a historically successful club with a large fanbase.
O'Leary was a playing icon for a big club and very successful player at the top level for decades.
Bielsa of course had many years where literal countries relied on him and Marseille and Bilbao are huge clubs in their own respective countries.

The managers who succeeded here or atleast looked back on fondly for their achievements all (bar maybe Wilko) had either playing careers at big clubs or international level, grew up as fans, played for us, or had managed internationally or at comparatively large clubs elsewhere.

DF has none of these backgrounds.

He wasn't anything special as a player, never played for a historically big club, he only managed 1 Borussia Mönchengladbach who are a historically large club in Germany and he got sacked after 1 season.

His only success in his managerial career came at Norwich, a yoyo club who at the time were on record for being proud to be a top 26 club in England.

That is a real aim from Norwich football club from when DF was there and before.

Can you imagine the reaction in our fanbase if Angus Kinnear said that? But that was the expectation of Daniel Farke at Norwich.

For basically his entire spell, the narrative only changes in 2021 when the DOF expressed the wish to be a top 17 club, soon after sacking Farke for his performance.

So for the only successful periods in his career he was expected to make the playoffs, anything more was a bonus which he managed.

But aslong as the playoffs were achieved for basically his entire Norwich spell it was fine and the pressure was off.

We are very different as a club, historically, size wise and yes expectation wise from the fanbase.

A great strength but I'd imagine very much part of the pressure factor.

I think (you probably disagree) but I think DF has very much started to feel the pressure of our club now.

He's started to talk like every other manager we've had before when it's a bit rocky and look equally rattled.

Is the unique pressure of the club maybe proving difficult for someone whose never had that before? Perhaps

He wouldn't be the first or the last.

This is a very long winded post my apologies

What I'm trying to ask or say is, does it maybe take a very unique type to ultimately succeed here?

Someone who either understands the pressure from being a player here or one of us as a fan?

Or someone who experienced the expectations of big clubs big pressure as a manager or player elsewhere?

Because as Phil said in one of his articles LUFC is unique and its not like managing a Norwich.

It's broken more experienced and proven managers than DF before.

In regards to the pressure I think Farke suceeded and failed. Like I said since the end of September we have had pressur eon us every match knowing a defeat even at that early point in the season was almost curtains in terms of us getting automatic promotion. I don't think it is a coincidence that we had a blip after beating Ipswich 4-0 and then again after we'd got to a point wher promotion was in our hands. For me it seems like it got to a bit where the pressure was off and our intensity dropped. We beat Ipswich 4-0 and it looked like that was a defining moment, they were going to fade and we were going to power on. Suddenly we drop just that bit and the results faltered. We managed to arrest the slump that time. The second time around though and we got ourselves to the point where the job seemed to be done. This time though we had that 2 week break where maybe we just completely lost that head of steam we had built up. We were on cruise control, it was going to be plain sailing but we just couldn't get ourselves back up. Farke is probably right in that we didn't have the experience in our squad to guide us home at that point. Sure we had Cooper and Bamford still here but it is also worth noting that they were here when we went up with Bielsa and the circumstances were so different because of the covid outbreak and the huge pause in the season and restart, plus that season we'd always been up and around the top two positions so we'd never been in the continually chasing position.

As to the ex managers. It could certainly be argued that the Revie team choked repeatedly. So many near misses, blame refs, crazy schedules etc but we lost to Sunderland in the cup final and were runners up so many times. The Grayson side choked in the play-offs and very nearly choked the following season. We were romping to the title by the end of December but limped home in second after an abysmal run of form. Wilko promotion winning side choked but recovered. The title winning side we choked less than Man U rather than us romping to the title in glorious fashion.

I think Farke's Norwich sides were different. They ran away with things. The first title it was us, Norwich, Sheff U and WBA but we choked big style which eased the pressure on them - similarly this season we choked whilst Ipswich and Leicester did but we continued and they rediscovered form. Norwich got into a good position and were on auto pilot.

I do agree with you that Farke has felt the pressure of the club. I feel he was sort of prepared for it, got our club and how we never do anything easily but he probably felt he could be the man to break all that. I think he understands it fully now!. I do think he is the right man though for next season regardless of where we find ourselves. If it is this division I think he will be better prepared. You would also think that we would be less likely to get off to a slow start and equally there would probably not be two teams starting off like Ipswich and Leicester did. At the end of October Leicester had won 13 out of 14 and Ipswich had only dropped 5 points. There may be one team that starts like that but two? As such we should have more of a 'normal' season more akin to the Bielsa promotion one where we weren't electric but always around the 2 points per game mark and always around the top of the table.

[Sean_Nile]

They say history is written by the victors, but it is a funny old world when two people can look at the clubs history with managers and write completely different histories... a history that supports their own particular narrative.

One uses knives for stabbing the other bandages for healing.

[weasel]

They say history is written by the victors, but it is a funny old world when two people can look at the clubs history with managers and write completely different histories... a history that supports their own particular narrative.

One uses knives for stabbing the other bandages for healing.

I think I would be fair in saying that although we did amazing with Revie we were the nearly men so many times and that team should have won more trophies.

[The Subhuman]

Oh hang the manager for planning one thing and changing it when one player forced his way out of the club and another tried to.


That is the point of why our start to the season was poor. Farke was having to juggle around trying to pick his best team not knowing who was going to be staying, who was actually going to be trying etc. You go on about Septemeber but as per usual cherry pick your stats. By the end of Septemeber we were 9 points behind Ipswich and 8 behind Leicester who also had a game in hand. Those 2 teams had momentum whereas we were still trying to work out how best to fit in the players we had to make a team.

October we started to get a bit of momentum, 12 points from 5 matches but actually found ourselves even further behind. Despite our good return Ipswich won 4 out of 4 in October and Leicester 5 wins from 5. That is the point I have continaully made in that we were having to go full throttle just to keep in their slipstream. 4 wins from 5 and we were further behind - we rotated for the 1 defeat in October, away to Stoke and lost ground, ground we couldn't afford to lose. We have been playing 'must win' matches non-stop since we got ourselves together in September.

Despite our poor end of season we have done better than both Ipswich and Leicester since the end of October. That is why it is completely fair, and completely accurate to say that we lost it in the first couple of months of the season.

It might be fair to make that point but it cannot be called accurate

[CHAPELALLMAN]

I'm glad you bought this up.

Pressure, think Warnock mentioned it, possibly Allardyce as well.

Phil mentioned it in his articles and possibly even his book.

The pressure of managing LUFC is unlike practically any other club.

It's been hard enough for promotion specialists like Warnock, even Javi Gracia has a perfectly decent managerial cv as well.

But all of them struggled and ultimately failed here.

Whether Farke failed or ultimately fails is upto opinion and eventual outcome.

But the managers who got us success?

Revie played for us.
Grayson was a fan and boyhood player.
Armfield was an experienced international and World Cup winner.
Wilko may be the exception to the rule but Wendies are a historically successful club with a large fanbase.
O'Leary was a playing icon for a big club and very successful player at the top level for decades.
Bielsa of course had many years where literal countries relied on him and Marseille and Bilbao are huge clubs in their own respective countries.

The managers who succeeded here or atleast looked back on fondly for their achievements all (bar maybe Wilko) had either playing careers at big clubs or international level, grew up as fans, played for us, or had managed internationally or at comparatively large clubs elsewhere.

DF has none of these backgrounds.

He wasn't anything special as a player, never played for a historically big club, he only managed 1 Borussia Mönchengladbach who are a historically large club in Germany and he got sacked after 1 season.

His only success in his managerial career came at Norwich, a yoyo club who at the time were on record for being proud to be a top 26 club in England.

That is a real aim from Norwich football club from when DF was there and before.

Can you imagine the reaction in our fanbase if Angus Kinnear said that? But that was the expectation of Daniel Farke at Norwich.

For basically his entire spell, the narrative only changes in 2021 when the DOF expressed the wish to be a top 17 club, soon after sacking Farke for his performance.

So for the only successful periods in his career he was expected to make the playoffs, anything more was a bonus which he managed.

But aslong as the playoffs were achieved for basically his entire Norwich spell it was fine and the pressure was off.

We are very different as a club, historically, size wise and yes expectation wise from the fanbase.

A great strength but I'd imagine very much part of the pressure factor.

I think (you probably disagree) but I think DF has very much started to feel the pressure of our club now.

He's started to talk like every other manager we've had before when it's a bit rocky and look equally rattled.

Is the unique pressure of the club maybe proving difficult for someone whose never had that before? Perhaps

He wouldn't be the first or the last.

This is a very long winded post my apologies

What I'm trying to ask or say is, does it maybe take a very unique type to ultimately succeed here?

Someone who either understands the pressure from being a player here or one of us as a fan?

Or someone who experienced the expectations of big clubs big pressure as a manager or player elsewhere?

Because as Phil said in one of his articles LUFC is unique and its not like managing a Norwich.

It's broken more experienced and proven managers than DF before.

O'Leary was signed by us as a player right at the end of his playing career I believe. I think injuries kept him out, and then he became manager when Graham decided to move to Spurs.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Nice to see you back, nothing like a crisis you see you come banging your drum.

As someone born in Leeds, and who grew up in a city in which the feats of Revie and his team were part of everyday life, I think I am a bit more of a Leeds/ LUFC person through and through than some others who attach themselves to the club thank you....Some of the snide comments I have heard you make about Revie and his squad, and Leeds fans in general ( often making digs at them ) make me wonder why you follow the club. Or maybe you covertly follow another club ?

Oh, and you don't need to be posting on here to be following the club. Some of us travel to Leeds frequently to visit relatives, and even end up chatting daily to the Leeds born newspaper delivery guy about the fortunes of the club....Or reading the Yorkshire Evening Post to get the latest news about the club.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

I think I would be fair in saying that although we did amazing with Revie we were the nearly men so many times and that team should have won more trophies.

A lot of that was down to the fact that the team was so good that they were stretched over several fronts - the league, European football and the FA Cup. The fixture congestion back then was unbelievable ; https://www.wsc.co.uk/stories/how-a-fix ... ty-handed/

[DDB220]

This thread has some heavy reading.

There is a very good post match analysis by Ger on YouTube for the Southampton game. He was at the match and provides some insightful observation's.

I like his analysis it is a realistic perspective IMO from a content provider who actually has a coaching background.

[1964white]

This thread has some heavy reading.

There is a very good post match analysis by Ger on YouTube for the Southampton game. He was at the match and provides some insightful observation's.

I like his analysis it is a realistic perspective IMO from a content provider who actually has a coaching background.

Ger plays & coaches football, as does Locky.

Ger must have been fortunate to acquire a ticket as he lives in Ireland.

[1964white]

I think I would be fair in saying that although we did amazing with Revie we were the nearly men so many times and that team should have won more trophies.

We would have won more trophies if not for a small squad, fixture congestion & bent referee's, we were robbed on at least four occasions denying Revie's greats of more silverware in the trophy cabinet.

As a Leeds lad, following Leeds from 1964, I was privileged to attend the majority of our home games (including many great European nights) & several away games up to 1975.

Today's top Premier League teams are pampered in comparison to those golden years I witnessed.

[Irish Ian]

As someone born in Leeds, and who grew up in a city in which the feats of Revie and his team were part of everyday life, I think I am a bit more of a Leeds/ LUFC person through and through than some others who attach themselves to the club thank you....Some of the snide comments I have heard you make about Revie and his squad, and Leeds fans in general ( often making digs at them ) make me wonder why you follow the club. Or maybe you covertly follow another club ?

Oh, and you don't need to be posting on here to be following the club. Some of us travel to Leeds frequently to visit relatives, and even end up chatting daily to the Leeds born newspaper delivery guy about the fortunes of the club....Or reading the Yorkshire Evening Post to get the latest news about the club.

Just making the point that when we were having a good season you had nothing to say.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Just making the point that when we were having a good season you had nothing to say.

So what - I just decided to take a break from this forum, and enjoy a bit of peace away from the kind of snide/barbed comments which you just came up with as a good example.

When thing were going well I had plenty to say to one or two relatives plus a few people who live in Leeds. You don't have to post on here to follow the club closely.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Sorry Weasel but for some reason you've attached yourself to this manager and are just happy to make excuses for him which you'd have never done for anyone else bar Bielsa.

Why does his difficult summer now extend till the end of September? That's a new one, most people had happily accepted August but now we write off September as well?

Nobody even his biggest fans had suggested he got the whole of September off as well until he mentioned it the other day.

Meslier
Ayling
Shacks
Struijk
Rodon
Gray
Ampadu
Summerville
Gnonto
Piroe
Rutter
Kamara
Spence

Team that played Sheffield Wednesday before Danny Rohl rescued them, September 2nd, that team not good enough either?

Does he get to write off two months as he is the only manager whose had a less than ideal Summer? Mark Robins was winning multiple promotions when Coventry had no home and fan protests.

But all of a sudden Daniel Farke is allowed to blame not the relegation form of the last 7,8 games but the whole 2 months at the start of the season?

We all know why it's extended until September and nobody even mentioned it until Farke did recently.

Because if you cancel August we still aren't top 2 anymore.

We were 2nd after Swansea in February, know when we dropped out next? After we drew with relegated Huddersfield.

Got back in after Wendies win, dropped out? After drawing with 15 placed Watford

People can bang on about August or September or both but we had it in our own hands multiple times since.

Beat a Sunderland side in free fall? No

Or a Blackburn side that finished 19th? Nope

Or perhaps even last change saloon vs QPR? Nope.


The fact anyone especially as sensible a poster as you is happily swallowing these excuses is absolutely ludicrous.

The summer didn't stop us, dropped points 6 months later vs bottom half teams did.

The bottom line is that we were top with 82 points and 10 games to go. We then just managed 8 more points in those 10 games, which is falling off a cliff in terms of form. Farke has to take some blame for this - up to the international break I was delighted with what he had done this season.

[1964white]

Well that was a hard watch!

YAWN YAWN YAWN YAWN

We never looked likely to retrieve the game after going 1-2 down.

Give Saints credit, they played well with some slick passing & great movement on & off the ball, with Downes, Stephens, Harwood-Bellas, Walker Peters & Smallbone impressing, which we couldn't cope or compete with whatsoever!

Midfeld & defence cut to ribbons, our players lost their markers & stood about like statues for both the Saints goals.

Anthony, Gray & Joseph showed very little in the 35 minutes they were on the pitch, no surprise there.

Referee, was poor, even though he had no bearing on the result.

Any one notice how none of our players ran over to celebrate Piroe's goal, only a high-five with Gnonto was visable to me.

What a mess to be going into the play-offs.

[Onemanstanding]

Well that was a hard watch!

YAWN YAWN YAWN YAWN

We never looked likely to retrieve the game after going 1-2 down.

Give Saints credit, they played well with some slick passing & great movement on & off the ball, with Downes, Stephens, Harwood-Bellas, Walker Peters & Smallbone impressing, which we couldn't cope or compete with whatsoever!

Midfeld & defence cut to ribbons, our players lost their markers & stood about like statues for both the Saints goals.

Anthony, Gray & Joseph showed very little in the 35 minutes they were on the pitch, no surprise there.

Referee, was poor, even though he had no bearing on the result.

Any one notice how none of our players ran over to celebrate Piroe's goal, only a high-five with Gnonto was visable to me.

What a mess to be going into the play-offs.

It was mentioned in the match thread about no-one congratulating Piroe.
He doesn't seem to have much respect in the team.
Summerville also held onto the ball when there was a free kick just outside the box. Piroe was there and you could tell he wanted to have a go.
Summerville doesn't seem to be a team player.
Not looking good for team harmony.

[1964white]

It was mentioned in the match thread about no-one congratulating Piroe.
He doesn't seem to have much respect in the team.
Summerville also held onto the ball when there was a free kick just outside the box. Piroe was there and you could tell he wanted to have a go.
Summerville doesn't seem to be a team player.
Not looking good for team harmony.

I did wonder if my eyes were deceiving me, as I wasn't at ER for the first time this season due a pre-booked holiday, TV cameras don't always tell the full story.

I'm not a Piroe fan, but I thought he was our best player on Saturday.

I hope there isn't disharmony in the dressing room, or else we are definitely out of the play-offs prior to kicking a ball. We seem that we aren't interested, playing like a bunch of strangers.