Brentford 5-2 Leeds Utd Match Thread - Good footage from the opposition.

[Jaydog]

My feeling is that because the orignal offence, the shirt pulling, was outside the penalty box that VAR couldn't intervene as they can only intervene for potential penalties, goals being disallowed, potential sendings off but can't when the offence would only result in a free kick.

It is a farcial system though and far too open to interpretation. Like many have said, and I thought so too at the time, the on field referee wasn't convinced he'd made a mistake after watching on the monitor (you could see the confused look on his face as it definitely wasn't a clear and obvious error) but was talked into by the ref in the VAR room - as such one ref's opinion was taken rather than the other ref (and Peter Walton for BT said it wasn't a penalty).

Pushes Jimmy downwards in the box Weasel. Shirt pull outside but a downward push in the box. Clearly

[Chilli D]

I said last week that Gelhardt was nowhere near Prem quality. In fact my elsdest son (Leeds since birth and now 31) says he's 5h1te. Deffo not good enough for the Prem. Buying no striker and no left back will be our downfall this season. Will Radz ever learn? I'll answer that: No! No he won't...

Then he must be shite if your son says so

[weasel]

I don’t know who the VAR was yesterday but, whoever it was, it’s clear that he didn’t really understand his role. He went far above his remit, he overreached himself in the capacity of VAR and his intervention, unnecessarily and indeed illegitimately, affected the course of the game, as usual, to the detriment of Leeds United.

A referee full of his own self importance and thinking his decision is the only one that matters - who would have thought it?

So many referees at all levels who just love the power that doing the job gives them.

[Kennyb41]

MB could make his system work with his best players, can Jesse?

Please stop referring to him others go fcking mental.

[weasel]

Pushes Jimmy downwards in the box Weasel. Shirt pull outside but a downward push in the box. Clearly

Yes but it is the first offence they judge by. It should have been a freekick outside the box given by the ref on the pitch. If the ref had given a penalty it would have gone to VAR and should have been overturned and given as a free kick outside the box. The only way VAR should have intervened is if the ref had given a penalty or the first offence had happened in the box.

[weasel]

Bamford showed us a lot of what we've missed against Brentford and Everton. He holds up the ball really well. He's streets ahead of Rodrigo and Gelhardt in the No. 9. The goals will come.

Indeed. He will still miss sitters but hopefuly still score some of the harder chances.

[Kennyb41]

A referee full of his own self importance and thinking his decision is the only one that matters - who would have thought it?

So many referees at all levels who just love the power that doing the job gives them.

I said here and thought at the time, that for the first time this season our ref yesterday would have big enough balls to say ' no. fck off, that's not enough for me to change my decision'

Someone beat him to it..from the bbc -:

"Players and managers have been let down today, it's been a terrible day - they have been let down by decisions like that," said Alan Shearer on Match of the Day.

Former top-flight manager Tony Pulis said on BBC Radio 5 Live: "It's not VAR - let me get this correct. VAR just records the TV footage, it's the people who are running VAR.

"It's those human beings who are making the decisions. It's the referees stuck in that office, wherever they are, making the decisions."

There was one instance, however, of a referee being told to consult the pitchside monitor and sticking with their on-field decision.

That came at Nottingham Forest, where Michael Oliver awarded a penalty for handball and - five minutes later - it was scored by Brennan Johnson.

"Well done Michael Oliver, at last a referee has had the guts to say 'I am sticking with my decision'," said Shearer. "Don't be surprised to see more of that in the coming weeks because he is the first to do it."

[Jaydog]

Yes but it is the first offence they judge by. It should have been a freekick outside the box given by the ref on the pitch. If the ref had given a penalty it would have gone to VAR and should have been overturned and given as a free kick outside the box. The only way VAR should have intervened is if the ref had given a penalty or the first offence had happened in the box.

Ok. That is most likely correct. A free kick in that position would have been handy though.

[Jaydog]

Isn’t Kochs header accidental? If he hasn’t deliberately played it then Mbeumo is off. That was suggested on Soccer Special

[Jaydog]

MB could make his system work with his best players, can Jesse?

Please stop referring to him others go fcking mental.

Yes. He made it work v Chelsea. And that isn’t just because they didn’t turn up.
Referring to who. Marcelo Bielsa. Do you mean him. Marcelo Bielsa. Ok. I won’t refer to Marcelo Bielsa ever again.
No more Marcelo Bielsa will come from my lips or keyboard. I’ve removed all those letters from my iPad.

[Kennyb41]

You’re right IMO about the swarming Kenny. It means we’re leaving far too much space away from the ball. It also means as others have commented we’re frantically chasing the ball rather than doing things in a more measured way.

In terms of back to the drawing board, the big question is will Marsch acknowledge the problem or persist as MB did with the failing man marking system?

I was referring to this quote Jay and meant to include the quote in my response.

But you'll do.

[Jaydog]

I was referring to this quote Jay and meant to include the quote in my response.

But you'll do.

You agree with that Kenny. That MB failed to see his system was in decline.
I think Jesse needs to tweak it but what he really needs is a few players to step up or f**k off. I’d say he’ll change it.
LC & Ayling in & Llorente & Kristensen out. Not what I’d do but that’s what he’ll do

[Byebyegeegee]

Yes but it is the first offence they judge by. It should have been a freekick outside the box given by the ref on the pitch. If the ref had given a penalty it would have gone to VAR and should have been overturned and given as a free kick outside the box. The only way VAR should have intervened is if the ref had given a penalty or the first offence had happened in the box.

Yes but the first “offence” wasn’t given by the referee and as you say VAR should not get involved as it was not in the penalty area so the the game carries on. The second offence also wasn’t given by the ref but in this case VAR had every right to get involved as it happened inside the box and really should have been reviewed. In fact I think it might have been reviewed but obviously not given the scrutiny it deserved and nowhere near the same unwarranted scrutiny as the 50/50 incident leading to Brentford’s penalty erroneously received.

No excuses, any way you look at it the officiating in this match was shocking and, of course, it’s no surprise that, once again, Leeds United bore the brunt and came off the worse for it.

[Jaydog]

Yes but the first “offence” wasn’t given by the referee and as you say VAR should not get involved as it was not in the penalty area so the the game carries on. The second offence also wasn’t given by the ref but in this case VAR had every right to get involved as it happened inside the box and really should have been reviewed. In fact I think it might have been reviewed but obviously not given the scrutiny it deserved and nowhere near the same unwarranted scrutiny as the 50/50 incident leading to Brentford’s penalty erroneously received.

No excuses, any way you look at it the officiating in this match was shocking and, of course, it’s no surprise that, once again, Leeds United bore the brunt and came off the worse for it.

I agree. What’s the point in VAR if they don’t look at the “second” foul. The ref doesn’t see the first infringement as a foul (he’s wrong but anyway) so they carry on to the obvious foul in the area. It’s not a 50/50 as per the Bees pen. A very simple VAR decision. And what about the Hammers one. The keeper knows exactly what he’s doing. When you have a fatally flawed system players will attempt to abuse it.
And the Koch tackle. Watch it back. 50/50.

[SG90]

I think we have to accept the kamikaze football won't last for ever, and sometimes we just need to go back to basics. Marsch showed last year he was willing to change the style up to keep us in the PL. A few boring 1-0s wouldn't go amiss. Everyone forgets the O'Leary era started from George Graham's 1-0 defensive style that took us into Europe.

[Madron]

Yes but the first “offence” wasn’t given by the referee and as you say VAR should not get involved as it was not in the penalty area so the the game carries on. The second offence also wasn’t given by the ref but in this case VAR had every right to get involved as it happened inside the box and really should have been reviewed. In fact I think it might have been reviewed but obviously not given the scrutiny it deserved and nowhere near the same unwarranted scrutiny as the 50/50 incident leading to Brentford’s penalty erroneously received.

No excuses, any way you look at it the officiating in this match was shocking and, of course, it’s no surprise that, once again, Leeds United bore the brunt and came off the worse for it.

Correct.
Pulling of shirt wasn't given as a FK so is irrelevant. What happens after is relevant.
Weasels explanation makes no sense logically.
The defender made no attempt to play the ball.

[whiteswan]

It'll be interesting to hear what Dermott Gallagher has to say on ref watch tomorrow morning, 11.30am, sky sports news. He usually does call them out if he thinks it's a wrong decision. Interesting to hear what he has to say about VAR's shambolic display this weekend.

[Jaydog]

7 goals and only 1 assist. Ayling. Says something about a team getting 5 with no assist. Well actually they were assisted by;
Ref
VAR
Llorente
Koch

[1964white]

From a Brentford angle.