Brentford 5-2 Leeds Utd Match Thread - Good footage from the opposition.

[Boo Radley]

It was clear today that the ref did not want to give the penalty against us, but Darren England on VAR persisted in pushing it - for at least 3 minutes in the refs’ ear.

[1964white]

My stream was as weak as Llorente. Whatever anyone says about the validity of the Chelsea result can someone please explain wtf has happened since. How’s it possible.

Rodrigo & Harrison lost their form
Rodrigo injured.
Llorente our achilles heel has finally hurt us.
Substitutes not having the desired effect, certainly not today.

[BlackHillsPaul]

All well and good Paul, but you are not factoring in the English football establishment’s anti-Leeds bias. Refereeing and VAR can be improved all you want but so long as that bias exists it’s not going to be a level playing field.

I know from previous posts that you don’t hold with any such bias claims but from my 55+ years of watching and supporting this club I, personally, am convinced such a thing exists. There have even been books written about that very topic.

By the way, it is also very obviously present in our mainly London based MSM too.

I’m not looking for excuses but, to me, there were 3 deciding factors for our defeat today:
A) the performance of Ivan Toney, fantastic player who was superb.
B) the performance of our defence mainly Diego Llorente who had a shocker.
C) the partiality of the referee and VAR

I don't recall what I have said on the subject. Have I rejected the idea that there is an institutional bias against LUFC? I'll admit that I don't usually go in for conspiracy theories. Having said that, I have seen enough Premier League football to know that the big clubs DO get special treatment from Referees. How many times did we see Alex Ferguson drawn or down a goal at Old Trafford only to have the 4th official put up 8 minutes of stoppage time? So I am aware of those things.

I'll confess that I didn't know about any historical institutional bias against LUFC specifically. Other than the very harsh treatment the club received from the FA during its financial crisis. Perhaps I need to read the book. The proliferation of streaming services and platforms like YouTube have made it easier for supporters like me that live in in other countries to get information and follow the club. But that is a relatively recent development. With that in mind you might understand how I could be missing some context. It's one of the reasons I made the decision to join the MOT forum.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Lewis Potter looks an handful.

Lewis Potter looked lively first half. Just like Anthony Gordon.

[1964white]

It’s papering over some large cracks though Paul. Chasms. Scoreline flatters them but they have way more quality than us going forward

Goalscorers for starters!

[andrewjohnsmith]

The issue that I have with this is it took too long. If it's NOT clear and obvious then play on....

The penalty call could have gone either way. It was soft. But you see them given.

Issue for me is that it wasn't called initially so shouldn't have been overturned. VAR even said "We're not sure so come take a look"

Onfield - No
VAR - Don't Know
So the hell are they calling the referee over for another look?

[1964white]

I've been calling for this since pre-season. The best CB combo is Koch/Stuijk. It's time to give Hjelde a run out at LB.

As I posted on the previous page, Paul

[1964white]

Even after a 5-2 defeat I can honestly say we were the better footballing side by far and from what I’ve seen today Brentford are the new Wimbledon, hoof ball hit and hope and long throws etc. Unfortunately they have a real class player in Toney and our defending was particularly poor today. I said last week that Llorente makes me nervous every time he gets the ball or even gets near the ball and today he’s justified my nervousness.

VAR is a disgrace, compare their penalty claim against Summerville’s. One barely obvious one was given, one more obvious one wasn’t, I’m not surprised that Marsch is pulling his hair out at the corrupt officiating in this league. I fear he will get himself sent off a few more times yet this season because this anti Leeds bias isn’t going to stop anytime soon.

Agree with all that Byebye

[1964white]

Who goes left back?

That is the problem when your owners have a that'll do attitude.

Trying to fix one area creates another elsewhere.

Hjelde

[BlackHillsPaul]

The penalty call could have gone either way. It was soft. But you see them given.

Issue for me is that it wasn't called initially so shouldn't have been overturned. VAR even said "We're not sure so come take a look"

Onfield - No
VAR - Don't Know
So the hell are they calling the referee over for another look?

You've stated it better than I did. But that is exactly how I see it. It it takes that long then it's not a clear and obvious error. The call on the field was no foul. Either VAR see's a clear and obvious error or they don't. If they don't then stay out of the Referee's ear. It literally felt they had to talk him into it....

PRO does a much better job with VAR in MLS. Review times are much shorter. And if it's not clear and obvious they play on...

[1964white]

who was

Mbeumo was offside.

[Byebyegeegee]

I don't recall what I have said on the subject. Have I rejected the idea that there is an institutional bias against LUFC? I'll admit that I don't usually go in for conspiracy theories. Having said that, I have seen enough Premier League football to know that the big clubs DO get special treatment from Referees. How many times did we see Alex Ferguson drawn or down a goal at Old Trafford only to have the 4th official put up 8 minutes of stoppage time? So I am aware of those things.

I'll confess that I didn't know about any historical institutional bias against LUFC specifically. Other than the very harsh treatment the club received from the FA during its financial crisis. Perhaps I need to read the book. The proliferation of streaming services and platforms like YouTube have made it easier for supporters like me that live in in other countries to get information and follow the club. But that is a relatively recent development. With that in mind you might understand how I could be missing some context. It's one of the reasons I made the decision to join the MOT forum.

Sorry Paul if it wasn’t you, I’m sure it was one of our American based posters.

“No glossing over it how football cheated Leeds United” is a book published in 2011 which goes over some of the historical injustices suffered by this club at the hands of football’s officialdom. It’s written (not very well written in all honesty) by a Leeds fan called Gary Edwards but it may give you some idea of the sort of things we conspiracy theorists a have been concerned about over the years and may help you to understand why we are still paranoid and are so ready to declare prejudice to this day.

[1964white]

It was Darren England, the ref at ER on Tuesday v Everton

Well that says it all, Swannie, just as bad in a room as on the pitch.

[The Subhuman]

Mbeumo was offside.

It's an interesting one, Koch got the last touch but then it becomes on weather that touch is deliberate, you can be offside even if the defender touches it last but it needs to be an intentional touch, which I don't think it was. Koch I would imagine was trying to head the ball forward. So yes Mbuemo was offside technically

[DDB220]

With the system we play, which ostensibly involves a high line when we press, having some pace at the back is crucial. We lack this completely. Watching a foot race between Koch, Llorente and Struijk would not be a pretty spectacle.
Without pace positioning, anticipation and to some degree strength are crucial. Llorente has the anticipation but he, as many point out is easily dispossessed. More so against pace strong forwards.

We play pretty decent between the boxes but our transitional play is too slow. I think we are trying to play slow slow quick, with Aaronsson as the focal point to inject some pace. He is a gifted player but he hasn’t yet fully adapted to the pace or physicality of the EPL.

I saw many good things today but defensively we are still very vulnerable when playing a high line. The same happened against Everton, they just weren’t as committed as Brentford in terms of getting numbers forward in the counter attack.

Llorente won’t be cast aside, he needs a boot up the arse to play to his strengths and keep it simple. Dropping him will create more squad issues until Cooper returns. Who we desperate need back. Leadership is still an issue - we allowed ourselves to switch off when we got back to 3-2.

The captain of the field is responsible for making sure this doesn’t happen.

Bamford lacks sharpness and he will only get that back with game time. He has never been what could be considered prolific or clinical but he does add to the team with his work rate and intelligent movement.

The score flattered Brentford but they were clinical when the chances presented. At the very least they work the opposition keeper.

So far this season overall we are doing ok. This is the first real setback. We need to bounce back straight away.

[1964white]

It was clear today that the ref did not want to give the penalty against us, but Darren England on VAR persisted in pushing it - for at least 3 minutes in the refs’ ear.

You could see the discussion going on, England had the final say on the matter.

"It's Leeds don't give them anything, I didn't on Tuesday night"

[The Subhuman]

Brentford 5-2 Leeds:

Possession: 31%-69%
Shots: 14-17
On-Target: 8-6
Big Chances: 5-2 (this is basically the score so I'm not sure this can be right, it's ignoring the Bamaford chance to start with)
Chances Created: 5-11
Suc. Passes: 134-383
Pass Acc: 64%-82%
Final Third Passes: 30-132
Suc. Take-Ons: 13-15
Recoveries: 61-58 (well Brentford would win this but if you marry it to the possession it's a win to us)
Possession Lost: 131-146 (Again more opportunity to lose possession on 70% than 30% this is a win too)
Tackles Won: 22-23 (Ditto the above, 23 tackles on 30% possession)
Interceptions: 15-3 (the outlier statistic.... somewhat bizarre(

[DDB220]

That was never a penalty for me Toney tried to kick it he was never in possession and Sini was trying to win the ball at the same time. It was a 50/50 clash of two players going for a loose ball. Absolute joke of a decision.

[DDB220]

Brentford 5-2 Leeds:

Possession: 31%-69%
Shots: 14-17
On-Target: 8-6
Big Chances: 5-2 (this is basically the score so I'm not sure this can be right, it's ignoring the Bamaford chance to start with)
Chances Created: 5-11
Suc. Passes: 134-383
Pass Acc: 64%-82%
Final Third Passes: 30-132
Suc. Take-Ons: 13-15
Recoveries: 61-58 (well Brentford would win this but if you marry it to the possession it's a win to us)
Possession Lost: 131-146 (Again more opportunity to lose possession on 70% than 30% this is a win too)
Tackles Won: 22-23 (Ditto the above, 23 tackles on 30% possession)
Interceptions: 15-3 (the outlier statistic.... somewhat bizarre(

The last stat is the key one because we lost the ball at crucial times in the wrong areas of the pitch. Lack of concentration / focus.

[Hickco84]

I think the performance was OK today. It didn't feel like a 5-2 game. Toney was class and it shows what class centre forward can do to an ordinary team. How he is still there is a miracle. Their peno I can see why it's giving, our shout for a peno should have been giving too anywhere else its a free. Diegos mistakes surely are catching up to him now and he needs dropping. Hopefully Cooper is back for forest. Luis looks to be getting better with each game. Roca growing in influence and
Arraonson is a real handful. Bills back and looked decent and bamford getting mins are all positives. Not really the doom and gloom you see around here and eleswhere but not the finished article by a long shot. Jesse needs to relax himself and the ref was poor today.

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