Joel Piroe

[YorkshireSquare]

He's a paradox. Top striker. But doesn't fit the lone striker role. His best moments for us have been when he's played 10, and still that's not his best position either.

Probably a flase nine, but we don't play with one. Rutter is better at ten and Bamford more of a handful at nine.

Bamford playing up top is going to give us the most out of Rutter, but at least we have options, an option who has scored 11 goals so far this season. Last season we had nothing!

[1964white]

Probably a flase nine, but we don't play with one. Rutter is better at ten and Bamford more of a handful at nine.

Bamford playing up top is going to give us the most out of Rutter, but at least we have options, an option who has scored 11 goals so far this season. Last season we had nothing!

True!

[Cjay]

I stand by you JP

[andrewjohnsmith]

I stand by you JP

Me too. Just want to see a way that we can get the best out of him

I do wonder if next season Farke might tweak the tactics a little. Given we won't be a superior team. And if he'll try to devise something that will get more from JP.

[The Subhuman]

I stand by you JP

Ditto

[1964white]

I stand by you JP

You would Cjay

It seems like Piroe can walk on water for making no contribution.

His no-show against the foxes could have cost us three points.

Farke had to throw on a proper No.9 who probably wasn't 100% fit to show how Piroe how it's done.

Occupy their centre-backs, ensuring they are not having an easy 30 minutes whilst Paddy is on.
Challenge their CBs for every ball.
Clever movement & running off the ball.
Press the keeper.
Create space around him for the likes of Rutter, James & Summerville to show their quality.
Get yourself in the box, by doing so you may end up deflecting the ball into the net.

The attending fans love Patrick Bamford.

I assume Piroe is a big favourite on Twitter!

[GreennWhite]

Sometimes players change clubs and for whatever reason it then doesn't work out the same for them. Maybe that's what's happening to Piroe at present. He did after all score plenty of goals for Swansea, i dont know much about that team he played in but i would suggest our present team is a much better outfit which should have given him more ammunition this season to score a lot more goals than he has.
While he hasn't been prolific this season he still has scored a decent amount when you consider he hasn't/isn't playing well going by how people are viewing him. Maybe he is just going to take longer to produce the goods for us than many expect.

[Cjay]

You would Cjay

It seems like Piroe can walk on water for making no contribution.

His no-show against the foxes could have cost us three points.

Farke had to throw on a proper No.9 who probably wasn't 100% fit to show how Piroe how it's done.

Occupy their centre-backs, ensuring they are not having an easy 30 minutes whilst Paddy is on.
Challenge their CBs for every ball.
Clever movement & running off the ball.
Press the keeper.
Create space around him for the likes of Rutter, James & Summerville to show their quality.
Get yourself in the box, by doing so you may end up deflecting the ball into the net.

The attending fans love Patrick Bamford.

I assume Piroe is a big favourite on Twitter!

End of November a poll was made by you asking who should be sold, Bamford was 2nd with 22 votes.

When DF was bringing him on for a few minutes at the end of matches in our poor run over Christmas and many were putting the blame on Bamford only a few of us made the point it was DF at fault asking players to make an impact when hardly playing.

Shock horror when Bamford starts he scored in his 1st match and now people who had written him off to defend Farke are now praising Bamford and DF all of a sudden forgetting that all he did is what a few had said, give him a chance.

If Piroe is struggling isn't because he isn't a top Championship striker, nobody can argue that. It isn't because he isn't capable of playing as the main striker because for all people talk about Obafemi at Swansea he only started 28 League matches in 2 seasons.

His link play numbers exceed Bamford.

His ball retention exceeds Bamford

His goals obviously exceed Bamford in any Championship season (all of his best have been for 2 promotion winners and one who finished 3rd) whereas Piroe has been at mid table Swansea.

Paddy in good form and having a purple doesn't change this and eventually the same people banging on about him will be complaining and wanting others starting (Gelhardt, Nketiah, Rodrigo, Roofe etc).

We've been here before.

So if Piroe doesn't fit the system because of his lack of pressing or whatever some say then you know whose fault that is?

Hammond, Farke and the club, not Piroe.

Because similar to Rodrigo it was the weakest area of his game, this was known (scout reports all over the Internet so no way club didn't know)

Not awful but weakest part, he isn't a run around like a lunatic type

What Piroe has shown though is that as a striker he outshines Bamford in every meaningful attacking respect at weaker teams.

Bamford having a purple patch doesn't change that and fans backtracking doesn't either.

So if Piroe is struggling then the fault lies with Farke and the club.

He is HIS big money signing

He will have had all the scouting analysis from the scouts before approving his signing.

It is HIS job to make it work and if it doesn't then the criticism at Piroe should be directed at others because the club knew what they were getting.

I however think it can work, so I won't criticise Farke. . . . . . .

But I won't backtrack on Bamford and throw our big money signing under the bus because of a purple patch for the first time in years from a player you and many others wanted selling and who despite not being a massive fan I was one who said it was DF not using him properly.

Piroe is class if used properly, if that means we adapt a bit to get the best out of him then thats what we do.

Teams adapt based on whose playing so it's not unusual.

We've done it before for Hernandez for example.

Piroe is far more talented than Bamford, pleased Paddy is having a purple patch.

But the difference in talent is obvious

In his first season under Bielsa Bamford scored goals, same as Piroe.

But many wanted Roofe to start, some said we'd have beat Derby in the playoffs if he had because he was a better lone striker.

It took a year and Roofe leaving for Bielsa and the fans to trust Bamford fully as the lone striker.

2 pre seasons learning and adapting.

Piroe didn't have 1 under Farke, he's had a handful of games as a striker in this system.

You can't ask a player to play one role for most of the season then another and write them off based on a handful of games in a new role.

It took Bamford 12 months and even then many weren't convinced and wanted Roofe.

Or Nketiah

Or JKA

Or Rodrigo.

No pre season, limited starts, but yes let's write Piroe off now and ignore the 2 years as one of the standout strikers in the league and a proven number 9 at youth level.

Incidentally looks very much like a 9 in those clips, holding up play, linking with his teammates, running in behind stretching the play, poaching in the 6 yard box.

Perhaps he just needs time to be that player again and a bit if patience and coaching as he's had 2 or 3 different managers in his senior career asking him to be and do different things?

And breathe . . . .

[hector]

Good post CJay.......

[AcrossThePondAsh]

End of November a poll was made by you asking who should be sold, Bamford was 2nd with 22 votes.

When DF was bringing him on for a few minutes at the end of matches in our poor run over Christmas and many were putting the blame on Bamford only a few of us made the point it was DF at fault asking players to make an impact when hardly playing.

Shock horror when Bamford starts he scored in his 1st match and now people who had written him off to defend Farke are now praising Bamford and DF all of a sudden forgetting that all he did is what a few had said, give him a chance.

If Piroe is struggling isn't because he isn't a top Championship striker, nobody can argue that. It isn't because he isn't capable of playing as the main striker because for all people talk about Obafemi at Swansea he only started 28 League matches in 2 seasons.

His link play numbers exceed Bamford.

His ball retention exceeds Bamford

His goals obviously exceed Bamford in any Championship season (all of his best have been for 2 promotion winners and one who finished 3rd) whereas Piroe has been at mid table Swansea.

Paddy in good form and having a purple doesn't change this and eventually the same people banging on about him will be complaining and wanting others starting (Gelhardt, Nketiah, Rodrigo, Roofe etc).

We've been here before.

So if Piroe doesn't fit the system because of his lack of pressing or whatever some say then you know whose fault that is?

Hammond, Farke and the club, not Piroe.

Because similar to Rodrigo it was the weakest area of his game, this was known (scout reports all over the Internet so no way club didn't know)

Not awful but weakest part, he isn't a run around like a lunatic type

What Piroe has shown though is that as a striker he outshines Bamford in every meaningful attacking respect at weaker teams.

Bamford having a purple patch doesn't change that and fans backtracking doesn't either.

So if Piroe is struggling then the fault lies with Farke and the club.

He is HIS big money signing

He will have had all the scouting analysis from the scouts before approving his signing.

It is HIS job to make it work and if it doesn't then the criticism at Piroe should be directed at others because the club knew what they were getting.

I however think it can work, so I won't criticise Farke. . . . . . .

But I won't backtrack on Bamford and throw our big money signing under the bus because of a purple patch for the first time in years from a player you and many others wanted selling and who despite not being a massive fan I was one who said it was DF not using him properly.

Piroe is class if used properly, if that means we adapt a bit to get the best out of him then thats what we do.

Teams adapt based on whose playing so it's not unusual.

We've done it before for Hernandez for example.

Piroe is far more talented than Bamford, pleased Paddy is having a purple patch.

But the difference in talent is obvious

In his first season under Bielsa Bamford scored goals, same as Piroe.

But many wanted Roofe to start, some said we'd have beat Derby in the playoffs if he had because he was a better lone striker.

It took a year and Roofe leaving for Bielsa and the fans to trust Bamford fully as the lone striker.

2 pre seasons learning and adapting.

Piroe didn't have 1 under Farke, he's had a handful of games as a striker in this system.

You can't ask a player to play one role for most of the season then another and write them off based on a handful of games in a new role.

It took Bamford 12 months and even then many weren't convinced and wanted Roofe.

Or Nketiah

Or JKA

Or Rodrigo.

No pre season, limited starts, but yes let's write Piroe off now and ignore the 2 years as one of the standout strikers in the league and a proven number 9 at youth level.

Incidentally looks very much like a 9 in those clips, holding up play, linking with his teammates, running in behind stretching the play, poaching in the 6 yard box.

Perhaps he just needs time to be that player again and a bit if patience and coaching as he's had 2 or 3 different managers in his senior career asking him to be and do different things?

And breathe . . . .

Appreciate the breakdown, and passion, Cjay. Joel is clearly very talented, but I do think we should be able to get even more out of him (allowing that this could be a time/adjustment issue).

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, as well as others, on the tactical changes needed while he's on the pitch. I'm of the mind that having two very different strikers, or strikers with different styles, strengths/weakness, etc. is exactly the kind of problem we don't typically have and that we could further exploit to wreak havoc with other teams planning, defense set-up, etc.

[Kennyb41]

Just when you needed our most expensive signing of the summer to stand up & be counted.

However, apart from two decent actions of play, Joel had a stinker!

I & many around me were shouting MOVE, MOVE FFS, but the big lump remained static.

Hermansen the foxes keeper had a easy first 60 minutes as he wasn't pressed by Piroe, maybe a token gesture now & again when he could be arsed.

Faes & Vestergaard had a comfortable 63 minutes too.

Seven pieces of poor play, including the two feeble efforts on goal, what the hell was that header all about? It would help if he moved his neck & headed the ball in at least the right direction.

Andrea Rossi (twitter) & Locky both knowledgable tacticians called it correctly at the beginning of the season, with their concerns on whether Piroe would fit Farke's system.

And there's a married couple on here think he can do the role just as good as PB

Ahh well, tha lives n learns i suppose.

Or should that be 'watch and learn'

[Kennyb41]

Probably a flase nine, but we don't play with one. Rutter is better at ten and Bamford more of a handful at nine.

Bamford playing up top is going to give us the most out of Rutter, but at least we have options, an option who has scored 11 goals so far this season. Last season we had nothing!

PB and Rutter compliment each other, they hit it off.

Piroe more of a luxury item.

But let the statman talk.

[Kennyb41]

You would Cjay

It seems like Piroe can walk on water for making no contribution.

His no-show against the foxes could have cost us three points.

Farke had to throw on a proper No.9 who probably wasn't 100% fit to show how Piroe how it's done.

Occupy their centre-backs, ensuring they are not having an easy 30 minutes whilst Paddy is on.
Challenge their CBs for every ball.
Clever movement & running off the ball.
Press the keeper.
Create space around him for the likes of Rutter, James & Summerville to show their quality.
Get yourself in the box, by doing so you may end up deflecting the ball into the net.

The attending fans love Patrick Bamford.

I assume Piroe is a big favourite on Twitter!

YOU GO GIRL

I've reached the conclusion Sid, some are knowledgeable and use their EYES for the proper purpose the good Lord gave them them for, and quite simply.

Some aren't and don't.

We go up if PB stays fit 100% guaranteed.

And btw, a manager can't force a player to play well, he can help him, teach him, guide him, instruct him.

But ultimately, it's down to the player himself, full stop.

[1964white]

YOU GO GIRL

I've reached the conclusion Sid, some are knowledgeable and use their EYES for the proper purpose the good Lord gave them them for, and quite simply.

Some aren't and don't.

We go up if PB stays fit 100% guaranteed.

And btw, a manager can't force a player to play well, he can help him, teach him, guide him, instruct him.

But ultimately, it's down to the player himself, full stop.

You can have all the quality in your locker, but if work ethic isn't there, you are struggling, especially in the championship. You only have to look at the rest of our squad who are working the butts off to achieve promotion, whilst Piroe strolls around in his laid back manner as if work rate doesn't matter.

The difference against Leicester was like chalk & cheese when two of our hardest workers Bamford & James came on, they gave us the energy & drive required for a magnificent comeback, not forgetting the quality of Rutter of course, he's no slouch too, our Duracell bunny keeps going to the very end.

[weasel]

Why is this still cropping up? If you were a farmer you wouldn't buy a porsche to plough your field. They are different players with different strengths and weaknesses. Piroe can't do some of the things Bamford can and vice versa. We blasted 4 past Ipswich twice with Piroe starting. They both play their part for the team. Cantona wasn't a chaser, Sheringham wasn't a chaser, lots of strikers aren't but it doesn't mean they aren't good strikers. If Bamford had started v Leicester we could just as easily been talking about chances he missed, like when we played Leicester last year. We could then have been talking about Piroe making a difference when he came on. For me the biggest impact from the bench was probably Roberts followed by James. Suddenly we terrorised them down the right. Roberts was in a far more attacking position than Gray had been all game, if Roberts hadn't come on to play right back instead of Gray then we don't get the first goal and likely then don't go on to get the win.

Interesting how flavour of the month no.2 Gnonto escapes the Piroe treatment. Gnonto missed the easiest chance of all and his replacement, James, had a big impact. Similar to Piroe Gnonto isn't the greatest presser so that means that if Piroe presses then likely there is a simple out ball to whoever Gnonto isn't pressing. But for me you have to take what Gnonto is good at, like Piroe he is probably a better finisher than his rival for a starting spot but similarly isn't as good a finisher. Is that because for both Piroe and Gnonto they can focus more on their finishing and aren't as knackered from running around?

The great thing is that we have options from the bench that can change the way we play without changing the formation. It isn't like earlier in the season where Fakre was hoping one of the subs would spark to life and we'd end up with Bamford, Piroe, Rutter and Joseph on the pitch all at the same time and not create a chance for them. Roberts came on and played further up the pitch than Gray was, James comes on and can run at a tired defence and cause all sorts of problems, Bamford come son and puts himself about and helps create a bit of space. That is what we have to take away from the game - everyone contributed and everyone is a key part of this squad.

[weasel]

You can have all the quality in your locker, but if work ethic isn't there, you are struggling, especially in the championship. You only have to look at the rest of our squad who are working the butts off to achieve promotion, whilst Piroe strolls around in his laid back manner as if work rate doesn't matter.

The difference against Leicester was like chalk & cheese when two of our hardest workers Bamford & James came on, they gave us the energy & drive required for a magnificent comeback, not forgetting the quality of Rutter of course, he's no slouch too, our Duracell bunny keeps going to the very end.

Well that's just nonsense as Cjay has already pointed out how successful Piroe has been, at Championship level, over the last 2 seasons for a mid to lower table side. All our players have strengths and weaknesses.

If you want players who have it all then head to the Etihad.

[The Subhuman]

Gnonto was better than James v Leicester imo ... James got to play a tiring Leicester defence, that had to double team our three attacking elite all game, that freed up space for Paddy late on and he took advantage. I'm not a huge fan of Paddy's pressing, while he's chasing down a goalkeeper from 40 yards away ..(always coming in from the side weirdly) he's leaving holes behind and wearing himself out plus if the ball does come back quickly he's gonna be in an offside position. It doesn't work often ...

[Ben Scooby lufc]

Sometimes players change clubs and for whatever reason it then doesn't work out the same for them. Maybe that's what's happening to Piroe at present. He did after all score plenty of goals for Swansea, i dont know much about that team he played in but i would suggest our present team is a much better outfit which should have given him more ammunition this season to score a lot more goals than he has.
While he hasn't been prolific this season he still has scored a decent amount when you consider he hasn't/isn't playing well going by how people are viewing him. Maybe he is just going to take longer to produce the goods for us than many expect.

He does score some goals he's so far managed 11. He does sometimes waste a few opportunities, instead of getting his shots off they quite often come of their defenders. Maybe it's just his composure! But overall he's not been a bad signing.

[1964white]

He does score some goals he's so far managed 11. He does sometimes waste a few opportunities, instead of getting his shots off they quite often come of their defenders. Maybe it's just his composure! But overall he's not been a bad signing.

3 goals in his last 15 appearances, one a vital penalty in the last minute.

[1964white]

Why is this still cropping up? If you were a farmer you wouldn't buy a porsche to plough your field. They are different players with different strengths and weaknesses. Piroe can't do some of the things Bamford can and vice versa. We blasted 4 past Ipswich twice with Piroe starting. They both play their part for the team. Cantona wasn't a chaser, Sheringham wasn't a chaser, lots of strikers aren't but it doesn't mean they aren't good strikers. If Bamford had started v Leicester we could just as easily been talking about chances he missed, like when we played Leicester last year. We could then have been talking about Piroe making a difference when he came on. For me the biggest impact from the bench was probably Roberts followed by James. Suddenly we terrorised them down the right. Roberts was in a far more attacking position than Gray had been all game, if Roberts hadn't come on to play right back instead of Gray then we don't get the first goal and likely then don't go on to get the win.

Interesting how flavour of the month no.2 Gnonto escapes the Piroe treatment. Gnonto missed the easiest chance of all and his replacement, James, had a big impact. Similar to Piroe Gnonto isn't the greatest presser so that means that if Piroe presses then likely there is a simple out ball to whoever Gnonto isn't pressing. But for me you have to take what Gnonto is good at, like Piroe he is probably a better finisher than his rival for a starting spot but similarly isn't as good a finisher. Is that because for both Piroe and Gnonto they can focus more on their finishing and aren't as knackered from running around?

The great thing is that we have options from the bench that can change the way we play without changing the formation. It isn't like earlier in the season where Fakre was hoping one of the subs would spark to life and we'd end up with Bamford, Piroe, Rutter and Joseph on the pitch all at the same time and not create a chance for them. Roberts came on and played further up the pitch than Gray was, James comes on and can run at a tired defence and cause all sorts of problems, Bamford come son and puts himself about and helps create a bit of space. That is what we have to take away from the game - everyone contributed and everyone is a key part of this squad.

Well at least a handful of us on here, realise the importance of Bamford, was always the case in Bielsa's team.