Stoke City v Leeds Utd - Post match discussion

[Leighton]

Is that an actual proper sentence?

It's a long attempt at a sentence anyway

[Leighton]

Lessons to learn:
- Summerville must start
- Piroe must stay on if we need a goal
- Sitting back doesn't work
- No Bamfraud on the pitch, unless we're comfortably ahead

I'd say the last sentence is 7 words too long

[ShaunL]

Horrible result to wake up to .
Did we need to make so many changes after an international break ?

[ShaunL]

Whilst we are 3rd on the ladder we are 14pts from the top & 2nd bottom.

[whiteswan]

Ipswich won again

My local team. My mates will be happy....drinks are on them.....

[malcolmw]

I'd say the last sentence is 7 words too long

Dear old Patrick hasnt done himself any favours lately.

I was not able to see or listen to the game (%$#@ing meetings). But it does seem to have been a bit of a cluster f**k.

Why are we doing this - first against Wednesday, then against Soton - we have a great game and then stall in the next one? It's like we need to do a cold reboot or something.

I'm sure someone above in this thread has tried to answer my question, but not sure I have the energy right now to read them.

[malcolmw]

The trouble with Bamford is his temperament

Not enough fire in his belly and, as I've always said, he thinks too slowly in front of goal

He is not a natural striker and tends to overthink it

Yes, I think you're right about Paddy. Maybe it was Bielsa's style and system which gave him so much room and time, he was able to look better than he is/was

But in terms of over-thinking it - I think the whole team is dong that. Even Summerville - as good as he was last week he could be scoring more goals if he'd take the first touch. There is far too much fiddling going on and not enough playing on instinct.

Manager must take the rap as many have said here, but the players on the field also have to make things happen.

[JoeDenver]

Devil's Advocate here....DF will only find out what he actually has in his squad by giving certain guys playing time. Today that was Gruev and Anthony. It didn't work. But he is still trying to find out what his combinations are. And who he can count on. Hopefully he learned something today. Because the changes were well off what our starting players can bring. And I'll throw Gnonto into that mix as well. He's a sub for me.

Agree, Paul. A bit off the cuff for me there as emotions were running high. I don’t mind the Gruev and Anthony usage, in fact welcome it. But some of the other starts were surprising for me. Jimmy deserved another start and he and Anthony have shown to work really well with one another (so why not try those two as starters while giving James the rest and opportunity to be the glorious super sub we know he is).

I felt Shacks should’ve been on for Gray last game. And so honestly couldn’t fathom him starting this game, let alone going the full 90. Can’t help but have a Lewis Cook-level of concern over Archie’s usage

And Farke’s substitutions are a growing pet-peeve. He’s only gotten his subs right once from the games I’ve seen (Norwich). Thought Kamara should’ve been brought on for Gruev around the 55 minute mark, and Gnonto the same (since he got the start). Gnonto looked gassed at 60 (so why keep him on for another 8 or so minutes?).

Obvious hindsight, but Stoke wasn’t the right team to experiment with the starting lineup as much as he did.

Ultimately, lots of questionable performances out there today which probably has Farke wondering who, with the exception of Rutter, Struijk, Rodon, Ampadu, and Jimmy as to who he can truly trust. Unless Shacks is injured, he is a must start for me next match over Gray. Otherwise, my questions for the manager might have even more relevance…

[JoeDenver]

I'm sure he "Sack Daniel Farke" brigade will be along shorty to tell me how wrong I am....

P.S. I'm not absolving DF of any responsibility here.

Not a member, but man, a couple of questionable starting selections today. A few more of those and continuing with his already persistent late substitutions will grow that brigade’s numbers if the results don’t vindicate him.

[JoeDenver]

Because he was too busy practising shushing the fans in his mind

Good one!

[JoeDenver]

How many more points are we going to drop to poor teams, whilst Leicester & Ipswich keep winning?

This is a fair point. And would be an absolute cracker for Farke to answer at a press conference!

[JoeDenver]

The Jury's out on Anthony and Gruev

Anthony has performed in the Prem and Farke sees something in Gruev

They need time to integrate

Gruev has one unique attribute and that is acute angle passing. Hopefully, that makes sense. He just seems to be able to make sideways passes at even tighter angles. He was overall very passive today, but he does have that one unique attribute that no one on the team possesses.

[JoeDenver]

Because we're too soft. It's the same with constantly missing chances. There's no ruthlessness at the club, and hasn't been for a long time.

Good point, SG! And was compounded by those wanting out over the summer. This is why I like Rodon and Ampadu. Those two have some element of killer instinct about them. And as much as Struijk has been a revelation this season, he’s never had that killer inside him and is why I question his captaincy (and is probably why others in the team do as well…at a minimum subconsciously).

[AcrossThePondAsh]

Agree, Paul. A bit off the cuff for me there as emotions were running high. I don’t mind the Gruev and Anthony usage, in fact welcome it. But some of the other starts were surprising for me. Jimmy deserved another start and he and Anthony have shown to work really well with one another (so why not try those two as starters while giving James the rest and opportunity to be the glorious super sub we know he is).

I felt Shacks should’ve been on for Gray last game. And so honestly couldn’t fathom him starting this game, let alone going the full 90. Can’t help but have a Lewis Cook-level of concern over Archie’s usage

And Farke’s substitutions are a growing pet-peeve. He’s only gotten his subs right once from the games I’ve seen (Norwich). Thought Kamara should’ve been brought on for Gruev around the 55 minute mark, and Gnonto the same (since he got the start). Gnonto looked gassed at 60 (so why keep him on for another 8 or so minutes?).

Obvious hindsight, but Stoke wasn’t the right team to experiment with the starting lineup as much as he did.

Ultimately, lots of questionable performances out there today which probably has Farke wondering who, with the exception of Rutter, Struijk, Rodon, Ampadu, and Jimmy as to who he can truly trust. Unless Shacks is injured, he is a must start for me next match over Gray. Otherwise, my questions for the manager might have even more relevance…

It looks like Jimmy not starting we can chalk up to playing-time management--DF post-match reported he's on painkillers for his injury from preseason and isn't physically able to play three full matches in a single week. I'm sure he was hoping he wouldn't need to use him at all.

Gray starting again seems to have taken everyone by surprise. Wish we were privy to the fitness data, performance in practice sessions, etc. so we could get the full picture. I know pre-Stoke DF said Shack was available, but to what extent--I know he's not going to come out and give an opponent information if he doesn't have to, and may even intentional mislead at times, but it's the not knowing all the information that's maddening for me.

[JoeDenver]

Looks like keeping Jimmy out of the starting line-up was game-time management more than DF losing his marbles:

Source: https://twitter.com/PhilHay_/status/171 ... eds-united

And by this logic, his rationale for starting Archie and playing him a full 90 is…what exactly?

[AcrossThePondAsh]

And by this logic, his rationale for starting Archie and playing him a full 90 is…what exactly?

That's exactly what I would love to know, Joe. I know in one of the pre-match pressers, it might have been the first after the last international break, DF specifically mentioned not being worried about AG's fitness based on the data they had. I assume this means from the three lions and our own data, otherwise you can't have the full picture. Although in the same presser he seemed pissed Archie had been used so much.

I wonder how much Archie's age might factor into it--for example, his recovery time is probably a lot shorter than some of the older players.

[JoeDenver]

It looks like Jimmy not starting we can chalk up to playing-time management--DF post-match reported he's on painkillers for his injury from preseason and isn't physically able to play three full matches in a single week. I'm sure he was hoping he wouldn't need to use him at all.

Gray starting again seems to have taken everyone by surprise. Wish we were privy to the fitness data, performance in practice sessions, etc. so we could get the full picture. I know pre-Stoke DF said Shack was available, but to what extent--I know he's not going to come out and give an opponent information if he doesn't have to, and may even intentional mislead at times, but it's the not knowing all the information that's maddening for me.

Spot on, Ash!

[1964white]

Whilst we are 3rd on the ladder we are 14pts from the top & 2nd bottom.

Footballers are pampered these days.

Amazingly, Farke isn't protecting our 17yo child

[Chilli D]

I turned the game off the moment the final whistle blew, couldn't be bothered to watch the after game analysis.
In the cold light of day, we have now played three of the worst sides in the division, Sheff Wed, Stoke and QPR and have scored a total of one goal against them. Things need to drastically improve against these sides starting on Saturday.

[1964white]

I turned the game off the moment the final whistle blew, couldn't be bothered to watch the after game analysis.
In the cold light of day, we have now played three of the worst sides in the division, Sheff Wed, Stoke and QPR and have scored a total of one goal against them. Things need to drastically improve against these sides starting on Saturday.

Good job you did, Chilli.

Beckford was talking a load of crap, defending our players just because he works for LUFC.

Say as it is Jermaine!