Stoke City v Leeds Utd - Post match discussion

[PhoenixUnited]

We are not even a third of the way through the season and some fans on here are sharpening the knives already for players and manager
Long way to go yet, have faith.

Amen to that. You can't be a Leeds United supporter and expect a straight forward smooth and easy ride with no obstacles thrown in your way often and at inconvenient times surely!

[geronimo]

Farke is still struggling to recognise his best team from one week to the next he is also hindered by the fact the squad is nowhere near big enough or possesses enough quality throughout the team especially in defence and midfield he continues to persist with players who are clearly past their best and his having to put square pegs in round holes on a regular basis for example playing gray at right back because they ain't a decent one at the club same at left back as well
I hope he is knocking on the 49ers door in January with his shopping list under is arm because we are still at least five players short in my opinion in key areas of the team especially in defence and midfield because up to now they have been conspicuous by their absence when it comes down to investment
If the signings of gruev and kamara are the sign of things to come we ain't going up anytime soon we need far better

The repercussions of not going up this season will be the likes of gnonto and Summerville leaving making the job even harder next season the consistency levels simply ain't there for automatic promotion and we are certainly ain't ready for the premier League with the team as it stands we would be back down again by Christmas

[lufc1304]

We are not even a third of the way through the season and some fans on here are sharpening the knives already for players and manager
Long way to go yet, have faith.

Like

[lufc1304]

This is where i'm coming from.

There was fck all wrong with the team on paper at the start, there is a lot to be learned at the end.

He gambled, Kenny, and it didn't come off. He will have learned from that, and hopefully as you alluded to, it's ammo for where we lack depth come January (and June/July). We are still very much a work in progress, and for those focusing on Leicester/Ipswich, they've both had a freak start that is practically unheard of. And, I suspect in the case of Ipswich especially, won't last all season.

Always disappointing to lose, but we dust ourselves off and move on. We're Leeds Utd, we don't do things the easy way, and never have in the 45+ years I've been a fan.

[Jaydog]

Farke is still struggling to recognise his best team from one week to the next he is also hindered by the fact the squad is nowhere near big enough or possesses enough quality throughout the team especially in defence and midfield he continues to persist with players who are clearly past their best and his having to put square pegs in round holes on a regular basis for example playing gray at right back because they ain't a decent one at the club same at left back as well
I hope he is knocking on the 49ers door in January with his shopping list under is arm because we are still at least five players short in my opinion in key areas of the team especially in defence and midfield because up to now they have been conspicuous by their absence when it comes down to investment
If the signings of gruev and kamara are the sign of things to come we ain't going up anytime soon we need far better

The repercussions of not going up this season will be the likes of gnonto and Summerville leaving making the job even harder next season the consistency levels simply ain't there for automatic promotion and we are certainly ain't ready for the premier League with the team as it stands we would be back down again by Christmas

We weren’t likely to assemble a Champions League squad in the Championship were we. I wouldn’t write off the 49ers yet. It’s a judicious attempt to get up to the PL without spending the earth. I’d only judge them then and those quality players don’t grow on trees.
As you yourself have said the top players want PL football, they aren’t stepping down to the Championship.
And the Championship seems as much about the manager as anything else, look at Ipswich. Do you see a multi million pound squad.
Only lost once in their last 30 games.

[Kennyb41]

He gambled, Kenny, and it didn't come off. He will have learned from that, and hopefully as you alluded to, it's ammo for where we lack depth come January (and June/July). We are still very much a work in progress, and for those focusing on Leicester/Ipswich, they've both had a freak start that is practically unheard of. And, I suspect in the case of Ipswich especially, won't last all season.

Always disappointing to lose, but we dust ourselves off and move on. We're Leeds Utd, we don't do things the easy way, and never have in the 45+ years I've been a fan.

Just forget Leicester and Ipswich now.

It's all about winning the next game now, and the next and the next, our performances aren't screaming out 'auto promotion'

I'll be looking at cashing in my top 6 after Hudds.

[geronimo]

We weren’t likely to assemble a Champions League squad in the Championship were we. I wouldn’t write off the 49ers yet. It’s a judicious attempt to get up to the PL without spending the earth. I’d only judge them then and those quality players don’t grow on trees.
As you yourself have said the top players want PL football, they aren’t stepping down to the Championship.
And the Championship seems as much about the manager as anything else, look at Ipswich. Do you see a multi million pound squad.
Only lost once in their last 30 games.

You have a fair point .my concern is when and if we do go up they are going to take us to the next level and not just be happy getting there like radrizaani I haven't seen any signs of it yet they are any different based on the investment so far we are a work in progress and it is going to take a few quid to sort this team out not loan deals or bargain basement shopping from Scotland and Bulgaria
Ipswich are on an incredible run like you say but without serious investment they are very much likely to do what most promoted teams do have a couple of seasons in the sun or go straight back down again
This club is different gravy when it comes down to size fan base history etc. The expectation levels are far higher if we have dead ducks sat in the boardroom again then going up to come back down again is a pointless exercise

[Broad Ford]

Bamfords penalty conversion should be the last time he takes one. Other than that Leeds created enough chances to earn at least a draw, but came away with nowt. Ipswich go 9 points clear and unless they lose a couple of key players through injury expect no more than a play off position if our form continues.

I predicted an 8th, 9th place finish for Leeds but now expect a top six providing key players remain uninjured.

Even though chances were squandered last night 3rd place is deserved and if a few previous fixtures had have been settled clinically then Leeds wouldn't be so far behind Ipswich in 2nd.

We are certainly heading in the right direction and if more key players are added in January Leeds could go on a decent run and climb into the top 2. I can dream.

[1964white]

Farke is still struggling to recognise his best team from one week to the next he is also hindered by the fact the squad is nowhere near big enough or possesses enough quality throughout the team especially in defence and midfield he continues to persist with players who are clearly past their best and his having to put square pegs in round holes on a regular basis for example playing gray at right back because they ain't a decent one at the club same at left back as well
I hope he is knocking on the 49ers door in January with his shopping list under is arm because we are still at least five players short in my opinion in key areas of the team especially in defence and midfield because up to now they have been conspicuous by their absence when it comes down to investment
If the signings of gruev and kamara are the sign of things to come we ain't going up anytime soon we need far better

The repercussions of not going up this season will be the likes of gnonto and Summerville leaving making the job even harder next season the consistency levels simply ain't there for automatic promotion and we are certainly ain't ready for the premier League with the team as it stands we would be back down again by Christmas

We should receive excellent fees for Summerville & Gnonto if we don't go up, then there are the loanees returning to Leeds whom we may attain reasonable fees.

[Cjay]

You can find fans at any club who moan about their manager regardless of how well the club is doing.
For me Farke is doing OK - nothing more and nothing less.
I always expected us to be in the top 6 so he hasn’t under achieved nor has he over achieved.

The aim was top 2.

We are closer to 21st than 2nd.

He has a better squad than any previous manager in this level that we have had, he's now being out performed by Thomas Christensen as well as Marcelo Bielsa.

At the very least you can see why he's failed at the top level 3 times in a row.

His in game management is awful.

His willingness even stubbornness to play players out of position and then adopt tactics that by design make it harder for those players.

The defensive setup is easy to play against.

I think on the pitch it's poor given what he has in comparison to other managers we have had.

[Cjay]

Please don't tell me you're now on a mission to find another Bert, ffs.

Well done lad

Kin braindead

But i should be glad your eyes are now wide open



Have we now gone full circle ?

In the Championship Bielsa got the best out of the squad he had (I never said he didnt)

Farke doesnt.

That's the difference

[geronimo]

We should receive excellent fees for Summerville & Gnonto if we don't go up, then there are the loanees returning to Leeds whom we may attain reasonable fees.

Receiving big money for these players is all well and good but it's what the money is spent on that matters if we are serious about promotion we need to keep our best players and not replace them with ones with nowhere near the same talent and at half the price we will get for them which is what this club will almost certainly do if we are in the championship next season

[Sean_Nile]

Archie did ok. He lost his player a few times but other than the free header the winger (whose name escapes) me didn’t threaten that much. Most of their threat came down the other side. That RB on loan from Liverpool - Heover, had a great game. Had Anthony in his pocket and gave Byram a torrid evening.

There is no doubt the inclusion of Gruev and Anthony unbalanced the team.

Farke has rated archie at right back but it has been noticeable that both Stoke and Norwich have targeted him with their fast wingers and he has had difficulty in times dealing with that.

Seems that the managers of other teams have noticed that he is a 17-year-old and they have a sought to exploit his inexperience at right back which is not his natural position.

They find a weak pressure point and then that is where they attack.

[Cjay]

Maybe we are just flat track bullies?

Take Ipswich out and we have only beaten bang average teams and no other top half teams despite having arguably a top 2 squad.

14th
13th
23rd
16th
15th
2nd

Those are our wins.

Lost to
5th
12th
17th

Drew with
8th
7th
6th
24th

Have 1 win vs teams in the top half from 6

[1964white]

[geronimo]

we are also up against the fact, that no matter what position in the league, these teams we play, they will inevitably raise their game and play out of their skins simply because we are the prized scalp in this division , that does not excuse the fact that these teams should be battered if we want promotion
no doubt stoke will lose their next few games and everybody will be questioning why we didnt beat them

[AcrossThePondAsh]

Absolutely Ash. In an ideal scenario, DF is in at the start of the summer, business inward and outward is concluded in a timely manner and he has a number of weeks to assess what he has. He wasn't afforded that luxury, and whilst you can try different combinations in training, it's no substitute for actual games. It's all well and good playing your best 11 every game, and again you'd do that if you could, but the championship is attritional and change will be inevitable at some point, whether through injury, suspension or loss of form. DF isn't infallible, he got last night wrong, but I can see the reasoning behind the changes he made and I'd be surprised if that performance, or lack thereof, didn't inform his thinking going forward. It's a old adage, but you learn more in defeat than you do in victory.

Exactly, LUFC. For instance, in terms of "data," DF now has seen both Gruev and Anthony in starting roles and playing extended minutes in his system in a match situation. Granted, it's with a grain of salt as the entire team was off--the whole "a rising tide lifts all boats" (or perhaps in this instance, an ebbing tide), but it's still a valuable data set nonetheless.

[mentalcase]

Farke has rated archie at right back but it has been noticeable that both Stoke and Norwich have targeted him with their fast wingers and he has had difficulty in times dealing with that.

Seems that the managers of other teams have noticed that he is a 17-year-old and they have a sought to exploit his inexperience at right back which is not his natural position.

They find a weak pressure point and then that is where they attack.

Exactly this, it's what perplexes me about DF, he is a very astute manager, knows the league inside out, yet makes some odd decisions to say the least.
Ayling & Shackleton are better RBs imho than Archie, Archie had some good play going forward, but defending it was clear from probably 30 mins in, he was lost, ball watching whilst his man had a free header, if that had been one of ours missing that , well, no more need saying.
Simply putting Archie as RB to compensate for Gruev say, is plain daft or does he see Archie as permanent RB !! Hope not.
We still don't know about Gruev or Anthony , but he must have thought Stoke were going to be beatable to change his winning team, along with not starting Sommerville who's been on fire, then not changing things early enough.
A bad bad day, these things happen, but there are glaring reasons for it.
Despite this, I'm still confident in DF, but he needs to get his starting 11 sorted quickly.