Leeds Utd v Norwich City Match Thread

[JoeDenver]

Difficult to break-up your best XI when Farke knows the replacements can be detrimental to gaining victories, I think DF has feared to change things after what happened at Stoke.

Norwich are a good side, one of the best I've seen at ER this season, they lacked punch up front, though.

Kenny McClean was their best player imo!

Good to see Firpo shut down & contain the influential Jonny Rowe (13 goals this season), thought Junior was great offensively & defensively, last night.

This was one of the key takeaways last night. This was the match-up I feared most. Thought Firpo’s defending was immense.

[weasel]

I don't get why people are knocking the lack of substitutions made. THe result is all important and we saw the game out, reasonably comfortably, without making early changes. The same posters bemoan the lack of quality on the banch but yet want to bring them on early. A cold subsitute coming into a game being played at 100mph is more likely to come on and struggle to get into the game, give the ball away by a bad touch or poor pass etc and that could cost us the points.

Take the 1970s world cup as a prime example and Sir Alf Ramsey taking off Bobby Charlton to give him a rest with us 2-0 and cruising. Suddenly it frees up Franz Beckenbaeur who no longer has to shackle Bobby. Germany come on strong and beat us. So that could have been the same if we say brought Piroe on for Bamford. So other options could be to bring Byram on, but why given that Gray and Firpo were playing well. Bring Cooper on for who? Who were the logical substitutions to be made apart from at the end to see out the ast couple of minutes?

So who will answer the question - Who were the logical substitutions to be made earlier in the match?

[1964white]

I don't get why people are knocking the lack of substitutions made. THe result is all important and we saw the game out, reasonably comfortably, without making early changes. The same posters bemoan the lack of quality on the banch but yet want to bring them on early. A cold subsitute coming into a game being played at 100mph is more likely to come on and struggle to get into the game, give the ball away by a bad touch or poor pass etc and that could cost us the points.

Take the 1970s world cup as a prime example and Sir Alf Ramsey taking off Bobby Charlton to give him a rest with us 2-0 and cruising. Suddenly it frees up Franz Beckenbaeur who no longer has to shackle Bobby. Germany come on strong and beat us. So that could have been the same if we say brought Piroe on for Bamford. So other options could be to bring Byram on, but why given that Gray and Firpo were playing well. Bring Cooper on for who? Who were the logical substitutions to be made apart from at the end to see out the ast couple of minutes?

So who will answer the question - Who were the logical substitutions to be made earlier in the match?

Not me!

The enforced substitute at half-time made us weaker down the right flank, taking the likes of Summerville, Bamford or Rutter off would have weakened us even more.

What were the options open to Farke?

Like me, Farke only trusts certain players, he'll give some of the plodders a run on Saturday but, you can guarantee, he'll play his strongest XI available to him against Bristol City.

[JoeDenver]

I don't get why people are knocking the lack of substitutions made. THe result is all important and we saw the game out, reasonably comfortably, without making early changes. The same posters bemoan the lack of quality on the banch but yet want to bring them on early. A cold subsitute coming into a game being played at 100mph is more likely to come on and struggle to get into the game, give the ball away by a bad touch or poor pass etc and that could cost us the points.

Take the 1970s world cup as a prime example and Sir Alf Ramsey taking off Bobby Charlton to give him a rest with us 2-0 and cruising. Suddenly it frees up Franz Beckenbaeur who no longer has to shackle Bobby. Germany come on strong and beat us. So that could have been the same if we say brought Piroe on for Bamford. So other options could be to bring Byram on, but why given that Gray and Firpo were playing well. Bring Cooper on for who? Who were the logical substitutions to be made apart from at the end to see out the ast couple of minutes?

So who will answer the question - Who were the logical substitutions to be made earlier in the match?

Hey Weasel, I was not advocating for substitutions to be made in this one (although, I did find it curious around the 80-minute mark that none outside of the HT sub had been made…a fact even our LUTV announcers hinted at at that time). However, other matches, particularly our PNE and WBA back to back losses were left wanting in this category.

But I’ll take a stab. Archie looked to have taken a knock or two and taking him off earlier for Byram made sense in trying preserve him for the future (and we still had Shacks for cover on Firpo if anything were to happen to him late). Cooper for Rodon a little earlier would’ve made sense as he was getting clobbered out there (with Ampadu shifting right). Also, and this gets into the touchy subject of tactics, but Anthony clearly looked lost out on the right…a switch with Jimmy would’ve made sense. And, as Jimmy further tired, perhaps bringing on Piroe for him while shifting Rutter out to the right.

Now, I’m NOT advocating that any of these changes should’ve been made, I’m merely speculating as to ideas that some of our posters might have. It’s important that we don’t silence those with ideas that question or ponder how we might be able to do things better. Frankly, that’s why I come on here…the variety of thought, which helps grow and expand one’s insight into the game. But snide put downs of those offering their unique perspective undermines this…as does daring people to come up with “what would you have done better.”

We all love Leeds and want what’s best for Leeds. Let’s not forget that. And know that even great teams can reflect on areas they could’ve done better in victory.

MOT…

[AcrossThePondAsh]

Liverpool
Aston Villa
Man City
Leeds United

Final 4

Thanks for pointing that out, SH. Usually LUFCdata are spot on with their facts and stats. I'll be sure to dig a little deeper next time.

[weasel]

Some good suggestions there Joe. With the knocks it is a tricky one. Rodon for me is a good tough centrehalf. Gets knocks but carries on and sees it as part of the game. He'd want to see out the win and then have someone sew his leg back on afterwards. Would have been a huge call to bring him off for Cooper given how well he has been playing. The Gray one trickier and it may have been a good call to bring Byram on. Equally though Gray was the one who got back brilliantly to make the crucial block so at that point his fitness is not an issue. For me you don't change the defence unless you need to during a game if you are trying to hold onto a lead.

As it is certain players can be rested now. We have something like 10 days till our next league match and then a further week till the one after that. I wouldn't be surprised that a few of our players weren't carrying little knocks into the game last night, knocks sustained against Preston.

[Kennyb41]

Dan James
The winger, a key figure in their promotion tilt, was withdrawn at half-time of Wednesday's win over Norwich City due to a hip problem. James, a Wales international, provided the assist for Patrick Bamford’s winning header.

Return date: February

What Daniel Farke has said: “Daniel James sadly, I had to substitute him because at the half-time whistle he overstretched his hip flexor.

“I think it’s a little strain. I hope it’s not too bad. I think he will definitely be out for the FA Cup game at the weekend, but hope he can return to training soon because we need him. He’s in brilliant shape."

Archie Gray
The talented teenager had to be taken off late on against the Canaries after suffering a knock to his knee. Gray, who recently penned a new long-term contract, has played in variety of positions this season.

Return date: Possibly Bristol City

What Farke said: “Archie Gray, in the beginning, I was concerned because he had a hit against his knee and overstretched it and was panicking a little bit.

“He was fearing something with the ligament and had to limp off. After the first assessment I’m carefully optimistic. It seems like ACL ligaments are OK and it’s more or less just a hit. We have to wait for further assessment, but I’m carefully optimistic it’s not a long-term injury.”

Wilfried Gnonto
Gnonto, reportedly attracting the interest of West Ham United, has sat-out their last two fixtures because of a hip problem. The Italy international has struggled to cement a regular place in the starting XI this season.

Return date: Plymouth

What Farke said ahead of Norwich: "We try to bring him first time back into team training, he was sadly out for last 12 days, we'll make a late decision, definitely not for the starting line-up. I expect him latest to be back for the FA Cup game on Saturday."

Pascal Struijk
United have been unable to call upon the Dutch defender since the Boxing Day defeat at Preston North End. Struijk has been struggling to shake off an adductor problem.

Return date: February

What Farke said ahead of Norwich: "We will assess him also over next next days pretty pretty carefully, so hopefully he can return soon and then it would also ease up a bit on the centre-back position our situation. We have to for what the next days will bring because actually, we were hoping that he would return after a light problem pretty soon but meanwhile it's been four and a half weeks. We can't be naïve, we also have to assess each and every day what happens with this position."

Karl Darlow
The goalkeeper, who has largely provided cover for No 1 Illan Meslier since arriving from Newcastle United, remains unavailable for selection as he recovers from a dislocated thumb.

[Kennyb41]

I'm actually looking forward to seeing KK in goal v Plymouth, Anthony on the right, Willy on the left, Piroe up front, Shack at RB and owt else he decides to try.

[Jaydog]

6/1 Plymouth

[andrewjohnsmith]

erm ..me. Certainly that they could become starters if needed, and even hold their place when injuries cleared up. I think the same of Gnonto, Cresswell, Piroe, Anthony, Hjelde, Fernandez and Kleasson, I reckon Poveda would be good given a run if James and Gnonto were out for a while

Most of our bench would start for most other clubs in the division, Gyabi is starting for Plymouth and he was nowhere near our bench..

I agree with this and not with the idea that our bench players aren't good enough.

Gelhardt, Shackleton, Cresswell, Poveda, Hjelde all did start for Championship clubs last season but can't get a sniff with us. Anthony played a lot in the premier league last season.

For me, it's a case that they are good enough but need some solid game time. A month ago, Gruev, Bamford and Firpo were bench players and many had written them off as useless. Then they got a few games ....

[andrewjohnsmith]

How many has he missed?

Oh come on.

All strikers miss goals. Watch the premier league games you'll see strikers missing chances.

4 goals in 5 games is a good return for anyone.

[The Subhuman]

Paddy's biggest asset is his head never drops, he just keeps going even if things aren't going our or his way

[The Subhuman]

Thanks for pointing that out, SH. Usually LUFCdata are spot on with their facts and stats. I'll be sure to dig a little deeper next time.

No, you were correct, We are the last unbeaten record at home for the EFL. I just added the undefeated at home prem teams. I think Villa have the best home record in the country

[JoeDenver]

Some good suggestions there Joe. With the knocks it is a tricky one. Rodon for me is a good tough centrehalf. Gets knocks but carries on and sees it as part of the game. He'd want to see out the win and then have someone sew his leg back on afterwards. Would have been a huge call to bring him off for Cooper given how well he has been playing. The Gray one trickier and it may have been a good call to bring Byram on. Equally though Byram was the one who got back brilliantly to make the crucial block so at that point his fitness is not an issue. For me you don't change the defence unless you need to during a game if you are trying to hold onto a lead.

As it is certain players can be rested now. We have something like 10 days till our next league match and then a further week till the one after that. I wouldn't be surprised that a few of our players weren't carrying little knocks into the game last night, knocks sustained against Preston.

Agree completely Weasel, that’s why I branded my suggestions more as speculation as to what some fans might conclude. I agree re: Rodon being a warrior and so that one probably wasn’t likely. And taking off Gray had the risk of unsettling things defensively (although I, too, feel pretty comfortable with Byram as a replacement).

I also agree about seeing other players get a try out there vs Plymouth. Probably will see Piroe, Cooper, and Shacks…as well as Gnonto from the sounds of it. Really curious how we line up defensively. Would Cressy make an appearance?

[1964white]

6/1 Plymouth

Could be good value if Plymouth field their best XI

Gyabi & Forshaw in midfield

[1964white]

I agree with this and not with the idea that our bench players aren't good enough.

Gelhardt, Shackleton, Cresswell, Poveda, Hjelde all did start for Championship clubs last season but can't get a sniff with us. Anthony played a lot in the premier league last season.

For me, it's a case that they are good enough but need some solid game time. A month ago, Gruev, Bamford and Firpo were bench players and many had written them off as useless. Then they got a few games ....

Gruev, Bamford & Firpo have played at a higher level more regularly than the others.

I'll be surprised if we retain any of the above five mentioned, even if we are not promoted.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Not me!

The enforced substitute at half-time made us weaker down the right flank, taking the likes of Summerville, Bamford or Rutter off would have weakened us even more.

What were the options open to Farke?

Like me, Farke only trusts certain players, he'll give some of the plodders a run on Saturday but, you can guarantee, he'll play his strongest XI available to him against Bristol City.

I'm a bit baffled by the performances of our substitutes this season. They're not bad players. Anthony was playing well in the PL last season. As you said earlier, Ipswich and Leicester subs make a bigger impact. Could it be that Farke's system is more difficult to adapt to? Could it be that we're rigid in our style of play and the players coming on are not suitable or adapted to the system?

Just questions. But case in point last night. Anthony for James is definitely not a like for like. James game is all about pace where as Anthony seems more of a technical player. You can longer hit those long balls down the right when its not James playing there. So, I wonder. Are the subs/replacements less effective because they're not suited to the way our first choice players play?

[The Subhuman]

Could be good value if Plymouth field their best XI

Gyabi & Forshaw in midfield

Is Gyabi eligible ?

[SnifferClarke]

Could be good value if Plymouth field their best XI

Gyabi & Forshaw in midfield

What are the odds on Forshaw scoring ?

he even missed in a penalty shoot out for Leeds.

[1964white]

Is Gyabi eligible ?

Gyabi is not cup-tied but Forshaw is, as he played for Norwich against Bristol Rovers in the third round.