Leeds United v Plymouth Argyle Match Thread

[1964white]

Suspect we will enlist the chartered jet for Plymouth (twice). That makes it a 1 hour journey.

You would hope so!

[1964white]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought Rutter overplayed today and cost us, I was starting to think I'd been seeing things

https://www.leedsunited.news/news/decis ... uch-today/

I saw a pundit rating of 2 for him in a recent game, where he had lost possession 28 times but came off smiling when subbed in extra time. I'd be interested in the number of dispossessions down to him over the last 5 games, where we've been doing so well.

Is Farke afraid to rein him in in case he shatters his newfound confidence of this season?

I love the guy, but as I said earlier, when he's not being brilliant he's a liability. Certainly not an 8.5 - 9.5 for me today.

Lost possession seven times vs Norwich.

[Cjay]

Lost possession seven times vs Norwich.

We are extremely reliant on him and he knows it so he tries to do more than he should.

With no Summerville today maybe he felt it was all on him.

[1964white]

Complacency would be underestimating the opposition and not preparing right. I don't think that was the case, we looked up for it and were 'at it' from the start. For me the only problem was second half. We started okay in the second half, still cruising but midway through the second half they gave it a go and to be fair probably surprised us.

And our defence opened like the Red Sea leaving Rodon & Coops stranded for their equaliser.

It also occurred against Norwich with Archie Gray saving Anthony's blushes, today we had no full-backs or wingers tracking back, and Plymouth capitalised on our defensive frailties.

We miss the defensive work of James & Summerville when our full-backs are caught up field.

As I mentioned many times, there are holes in our team beyond our first XI, because we haven't got the replacements who can replicate the quality of our best players. I suspect those problems shall be resolved in the summer in readiness for next season.

[1964white]

We are extremely reliant on him and he knows it so he tries to do more than he should.

With no Summerville today maybe he felt it was all on him.

Agree

[malcolmw]

Gnonto, Piroe & Shackleton receiving plenty of criticism above, with our full-backs going awol for the goal

Rodon, Coops, Ampadu, Anthony, Rutter & Gruev taking the plaudits

Complacency the common factor,

No argument - we did not have a good game today. DF's team selection was a bit of a head scratcher as well (not really what I was expecting anyway).
And maybe losing would have been a blessing in disguise, although I've always felt "trying to lose" is very dangerous to the psyche - in any endeavour.

Lets look at the big picture though (just my view - 'sample of 1'):

- we have more options for our back 4 now than we did a couple of months ago. This is largely because Gruev, who was a bit of a mystery man, has come in for the last 3 games and proven to be a major asset. This has allowed Amps to be considered as a CB - and he has played just as well there within the system as in midfield.
Also, Firpo seems to be finding his place in the DF system as opposed to running around like a lost fart in a bubble bath in the past. Byrum is getting his fitness back and, thank God, Archie's injury is fairly minor. Also, it would seem Cresswell may soon be released from standing in the corner with the Dunce hat on.
Add Shackleton to the mix from the bench and - maybe I'm just the eternal optimist - but I feel this is our defense covered for the rest of the season.

- Midfield we have Amp's of course, coupled with Kamara, who is also fitting into the DF system really well, and the newly discovered Mr. Gruev. Anthony seems a contributor from the bench in the right situations. He has played a few good games for us so far (plus a couple of WTF moments I do agree).

- Sitting in front of this lot we have Summerville, Rutter, Gnonto, James as amongst the best performing in their positions in the league to this point.

-Upfront, Gironky (Paddy) has found a new lease on life and has scored the goal of the season so far, coupled with a few scrambled #9 scores. Missed a few of course, but still proving effective again. Add Piroe, who seems to me to be in a better place (bit of a weight off his shoulders maybe??) since Paddy is back, and we have the lone ranger role upfront in fair order.

Now, if 4 of the above get badly injured at around the same time in the next month or two, then yes...we're screwed.
But I don't believe our manager is planning out the development of his squad based on that.

Like I said - sample of 1 perspective here and I know many will disagree.

Overall, I'm just delighted to see we actually have "a system" again - we haven't had one since Marcelo left.

[1964white]

Overall, I'm just delighted to see we actually have "a system" again - we haven't had one since Marcelo left.

After last season's shambles, I'm sure we are all happy, now we have a structure/system in place, thanks to Daniel Farke.

[JoeDenver]

A tricky one with some of those players mentioned. Gelhardt the biggest enigma given his impact as a sub in the prem. Shackleton is fine at this level, he is probably 4th choice full back and 5th choice central midfielder but I doubt we could realistically get anyone better to come in and be that.

I think the full back situation you mentioned, about the left back being allowed to go further forward than the right back is dependant on who the full backs are. When Ayling was playing he was always going further forward than Byram was on the left. So am guessing today he was told to be going further forward than Byram.

Agree somewhat on Gelhardt, but he hasn’t impressed in a while (we’re approaching two years since the Norwich goal). I can’t help but think consistent minutes and a run of success would do a world of good for his confidence. But I’m also skeptical of his ceiling getting him to Premier League level.

You might be right re: fullback position. Tough to determine if Shacks was instructed to push that far ahead or if he was doing that on his own. I do sense he likes to push forward from what I’ve seen this season in his fullback duties. I just thought that given that tendency, he’d fit in stylistically to how we’ve used Firpo and Byram on the left. I think caught my drift, though. I’d just feel more comforted with a true fullback that would relegate Shacks to fifth choice there.

[JoeDenver]

DF putting 2 Keepers on the bench again

Screams at the board : " GET ME 2 FCKING PLAYERS YOU TWATS!"

Good call. Akin to the early days of the season. Here’s to a similar season end to this recruiting season.

[SG90]

Got back about ten mins ago. Probably the worst result we could've asked for haha, a long midweek trip with little recovery for the Saturday game, and another fixture to add to the list.

We should've won it at HT with the chances we had. We looked sluggish from the kick off of the second half, not sure if it was a tactical change, or tiredness, but you could sense an equaliser was coming. Once again, Farke took too long to make subs, and then just threw on attackers at the end. We got away with it v Norwich, but the lack of rotation and subs are costing us atm.

Georgi was trying to do too much, but he looked our most creative player, but was constantly offside. It looked like he was up front again today, why? Gnonto was dreadful and didn't look arsed, Poveda offered more in his 15 mins.

Was great to see Cresswell on the bench, hopefully it means he's staying. Would've liked to see Rodon rested today in favour of Cresswell.

Still enjoyed the day

[weasel]

And our defence opened like the Red Sea leaving Rodon & Coops stranded for their equaliser.

It also occurred against Norwich with Archie Gray saving Anthony's blushes, today we had no full-backs or wingers tracking back, and Plymouth capitalised on our defensive frailties.

We miss the defensive work of James & Summerville when our full-backs are caught up field.

As I mentioned many times, there are holes in our team beyond our first XI, because we haven't got the replacements who can replicate the quality of our best players. I suspect those problems shall be resolved in the summer in readiness for next season.

I wouldn't be too worried yet about Anthony getting back defensively. I mentioned it with Firpo, when he was getting caught up field and seemingly ambling back, that until you get up to full match fitness you will get caught out defensively. This is because if you go up and support the attack you are going upfield at whatever pace you want to go at. You don't have to bursting a gut. But suddenly when you have to get back and you do have to go as fast as you can - and that is where full match fitness lets you down and sometimes even a full U21 match will not prepare you for that.

So it is noticeable if you get forward but not back. Whereas if you are knackered and don't push as far forward, especially as a full back, you are seen to be just keeping your position so you don't notice when a player defends well and then doesn't fly up the pitch in support (say for example if or winger has got back and made a tackle near our corner falg no one is going to moan if 10 seconds later he hasn't run all the way up the pitch to support our attack) . So for me the time to judge Anthony is if he wasn't able to get back would be after a few games. It looks like Firpo is judging it better now that he has got full match sharpness. Anthony was trying to get back with the goalscorer but was probably needing a breather.

[AcrossThePondAsh]

I wouldn't be too worried yet about Anthony getting back defensively. I mentioned it with Firpo, when he was getting caught up field and seemingly ambling back, that until you get up to full match fitness you will get caught out defensively. This is because if you go up and support the attack you are going upfield at whatever pace you want to go at. You don't have to bursting a gut. But suddenly when you have to get back and you do have to go as fast as you can - and that is where full match fitness lets you down and sometimes even a full U21 match will not prepare you for that.

So it is noticeable if you get forward but not back. Whereas if you are knackered and don't push as far forward, especially as a full back, you are seen to be just keeping your position so you don't notice when a player defends well and then doesn't fly up the pitch in support (say for example if or winger has got back and made a tackle near our corner falg no one is going to moan if 10 seconds later he hasn't run all the way up the pitch to support our attack) . So for me the time to judge Anthony is if he wasn't able to get back would be after a few games. It looks like Firpo is judging it better now that he has got full match sharpness. Anthony was trying to get back with the goalscorer but was probably needing a breather.

As you mentioned in your post, Weasel, Firpo seems to be the perfect example of this. Can't remember the last time he was able to string together so many consecutive starts--probable cause it hasn't happened before (cue Cjay or '64). We've seen him almost grow into his defensive duties as his fitness has improved.

Also, although today's result wasn't what anyone really wanted, it will provide another opportunity, albeit not consecutively, for some of our reserve players to get full run outs under their belts, which can't hurt in the long run. Fingers crossed our regular players don't pick up any injuries. It will interesting the see what line-up DF opts for in the replay for these reasons.

[hector]

I don’t understand the comments that when a player comes in his impact must be instantaneous. Last week it was Anthony, I haven’t seen the game but he scored a cracking goal. Now Shacks nor Poveda are any good. So many knee jerk reactions to a players first game in a while and yet there is continuous criticism about the lack of rotation. I am truly at a loss as to what would satisfy some contributors.

Welcome to Farke's world

[1964white]

I don’t understand the comments that when a player comes in his impact must be instantaneous. Last week it was Anthony, I haven’t seen the game but he scored a cracking goal. Now Shacks nor Poveda are any good. So many knee jerk reactions to a players first game in a while and yet there is continuous criticism about the lack of rotation. I am truly at a loss as to what would satisfy some contributors.

So, any criticism/negativity mustn't be mentioned on a football forum

Let's just say everybody played well & we put in a great performance against Plymouth.

Then everybody agrees

End result, no debate!

[weasel]

So, any criticism/negativity mustn't be mentioned on a football forum

Let's just say everybody played well & we put in a great performance against Plymouth.

Then everybody agrees

End result, no debate!

Most played reasonably well and we should have had the game won by half time. If that happens then no criticism. The performance as a whole and from individuals was for the most part decent we just didn't tuck our chances away and that has generally been the case all season - I believe our 'expected goals for' is the best in the league. Piroe gets criticised but if the keeper doesn't manage to get a foot to his shot he would have scored and likely we win at a canter. Small margins.

[1964white]

I wouldn't be too worried yet about Anthony getting back defensively. I mentioned it with Firpo, when he was getting caught up field and seemingly ambling back, that until you get up to full match fitness you will get caught out defensively. This is because if you go up and support the attack you are going upfield at whatever pace you want to go at. You don't have to bursting a gut. But suddenly when you have to get back and you do have to go as fast as you can - and that is where full match fitness lets you down and sometimes even a full U21 match will not prepare you for that.

So it is noticeable if you get forward but not back. Whereas if you are knackered and don't push as far forward, especially as a full back, you are seen to be just keeping your position so you don't notice when a player defends well and then doesn't fly up the pitch in support (say for example if or winger has got back and made a tackle near our corner falg no one is going to moan if 10 seconds later he hasn't run all the way up the pitch to support our attack) . So for me the time to judge Anthony is if he wasn't able to get back would be after a few games. It looks like Firpo is judging it better now that he has got full match sharpness. Anthony was trying to get back with the goalscorer but was probably needing a breather.

I agree, you'd expect either Byram or Anthony to track back, but both & some of our other players were looking leggy by the 73rd minute due to their lack of fitness. Gray, James & Summerville can run all day as they are supremely fit.

Maybe we should have gone cagey not looking for the second goal, alternatively make changes, bringing on players we didn't want to risk, in the end we brought Firpo & Bamford on in an attempt to win the game.

[weasel]

I agree, you'd expect either Byram or Anthony to track back, but both & some of our other players were looking leggy by the 73rd minute due to their lack of fitness. Gray, James & Summerville can run all day as they are supremely fit.

Maybe we should have gone cagey not looking for the second goal, alternatively make changes, bringing on players we didn't want to risk, in the end we brought Firpo & Bamford on in an attempt to win the game.

A tricky one cos if you do that you simply invite pressure on so you play out the match having to defend so it resembles the period when Norwich had us pegged back. We continued to create the better chances int he second half it was just that Plymouth scored whereas our lot ended up with an unharmed banjo and a happy cow.

[1964white]

Most played reasonably well and we should have had the game won by half time. If that happens then no criticism. The performance as a whole and from individuals was for the most part decent we just didn't tuck our chances away and that has generally been the case all season - I believe our 'expected goals for' is the best in the league. Piroe gets criticised but if the keeper doesn't manage to get a foot to his shot he would have scored and likely we win at a canter. Small margins.

It's been the same old story for missed chances, this season.

I thought we played well, though without being too critical in order not to offend some on here, there were two players on the park who should be performing so much better, especially if they are looking to claim a regular first team place.

[1964white]

A tricky one cos if you do that you simply invite pressure on so you play out the match having to defend so it resembles the period when Norwich had us pegged back. We continued to create the better chances int he second half it was just that Plymouth scored whereas our lot ended up with an unharmed banjo and a happy cow.

Indeed, we are not good generally when we invite pressure, although we retained our discipline when under the cosh against Norwich but, we had a regular fit eleven against the canaries.

Once Firpo & Bamford were on, we created three or four chances to win the Plymouth game.

[Kennyb41]

DF's instructions to Rutter - " Hold the ball up so others can get forward and join you in attack"...."ok gaffer".......DF - " You're holding on to it for too long"

Folk should also now see why the Anthonys of this world need a run of games, so the gaffer can go over with him today showing him how Jimmy tracks back better than him, and what he expects of Anthony and where Anthony went wrong in helping out the LB.

Fine lines you see, that totally unbalance the team, make too many changes and you start to create your own problems and bring your 'team' performance down 1, 2 or 3 levels.

Btw, what did Gnonto do yesterday ?