Sunderland - Post Match Discussion

[Kennyb41]

Gray.......................Firpo
James - Rutter - Kamara - Summerville
..............Bamford

Every single one of them players could pin Sunderland in their own half, and win possession back high up the field if it is lost, and go again.

[Phild]

Not sure if there is another goalkeeper in the EFL who has as many touches and time in possession than Meslier

[1964white]

Not sure if there is another goalkeeper in the EFL who has as many touches and time in possession than Meslier

I doubt it.

Meslier plays more or less as a third centre-back.

[Phild]

Meant it in the most negative of ways

[weasel]

The main trouble for me against Sunderland was that we only had 2 potential scorers on the pitch, Summerville and James. Bamford as we know is a streaky striker, scores stuff like 7 in 9 matches but then goes the same amount of games without scoring. He is in one of his drought periods now. Rutter is simply abysmal in terms of a goal scoring threat. You can see he has little confidence and often passes up on opportunities to shoot, or when he does shoot the people sitting 20 rows back are in more danger than the opposition keeper. So we have 2 strikers carrying no goal threat and a central midfield with no goals this season and a back 4 that has 2 goals between the 4 of them (Ampadu's brace in the cup) unless you count Gray's pinball goal v Leicester.

For me we need to get either Piroe or Joseph into the starting line-up. It is all well and good saying that Bamford was scoring and playing well at the start of 2024 but that was the Bamford where the goals were going in, one off his arm, one deflected in from James's free kick etc. The Bamford now is the couldn't hit a barn, let alone the door, version.

I would also be tempted to put Roberts in at rightback and switch Gray into midfield. That increases our chances of scoring from both positions.

It doesn't need big changes just a tweak to give us more threat.

[mentalcase]

The main trouble for me against Sunderland was that we only had 2 potential scorers on the pitch, Summerville and James. Bamford as we know is a streaky striker, scores stuff like 7 in 9 matches but then goes the same amount of games without scoring. He is in one of his drought periods now. Rutter is simply abysmal in terms of a goal scoring threat. You can see he has little confidence and often passes up on opportunities to shoot, or when he does shoot the people sitting 20 rows back are in more danger than the opposition keeper. So we have 2 strikers carrying no goal threat and a central midfield with no goals this season and a back 4 that has 2 goals between the 4 of them (Ampadu's brace in the cup) unless you count Gray's pinball goal v Leicester.

For me we need to get either Piroe or Joseph into the starting line-up. It is all well and good saying that Bamford was scoring and playing well at the start of 2024 but that was the Bamford where the goals were going in, one off his arm, one deflected in from James's free kick etc. The Bamford now is the couldn't hit a barn, let alone the door, version.

I would also be tempted to put Roberts in at rightback and switch Gray into midfield. That increases our chances of scoring from both positions.

It doesn't need big changes just a tweak to give us more threat.

You are correct, most of us have been saying the same thing for a long time though.

[Phild]

Robert’s for Gray
Gray for Kamara
Gnonto for James
Probably enough changes to start
Half time bring on Joseph if our first half is like recent ones

[DDB220]

The main trouble for me against Sunderland was that we only had 2 potential scorers on the pitch, Summerville and James. Bamford as we know is a streaky striker, scores stuff like 7 in 9 matches but then goes the same amount of games without scoring. He is in one of his drought periods now. Rutter is simply abysmal in terms of a goal scoring threat. You can see he has little confidence and often passes up on opportunities to shoot, or when he does shoot the people sitting 20 rows back are in more danger than the opposition keeper. So we have 2 strikers carrying no goal threat and a central midfield with no goals this season and a back 4 that has 2 goals between the 4 of them (Ampadu's brace in the cup) unless you count Gray's pinball goal v Leicester.

For me we need to get either Piroe or Joseph into the starting line-up. It is all well and good saying that Bamford was scoring and playing well at the start of 2024 but that was the Bamford where the goals were going in, one off his arm, one deflected in from James's free kick etc. The Bamford now is the couldn't hit a barn, let alone the door, version.

I would also be tempted to put Roberts in at rightback and switch Gray into midfield. That increases our chances of scoring from both positions.

It doesn't need big changes just a tweak to give us more threat.

The problem with taking Kamara out is that Firpo loses that defensive cover. Kamara has a great engine. Watch the Sunderland game after Kamara is subbed as proof of how his absence means Firpo drops deep. It is a big ask to flog Archie to fill that role. Unless you put Byram in. Incidentally DF tried this a few games ago and it wasn’t a great success from what I can recall. Albeit I am pretty certain Amps had also been moved to CDM and that may have created balance issues.
Gnonto is the answer for me.

[Phild]

I know what your saying
Just feel we have to get on the front foot early as the longer the game goes on this pissing about at the back allows the opposition to grow in confidence
Kamara no different to an injury free Forshaw
Guess overall more urgency from the off rather than in the last 15 minutes of games

[JoeDenver]

He only needs to go on the attack right from the off, if and only then when the oppos decide to park the bus, if we can't batter thru it in 45mins, then ok, 2nd half try and drag them out, but ffs ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK, PIN THEM IN THEIR FINAL THIRD AND THROW EVERYTHING AT THEM...At least there won't be any minutes wasted tippy tappy at the back, that game suits virtually every single one of our players !!!

I'm still feckin blazin btw

And i can't feckin stand going down without a fight or giving it ALL we've got, at least the fans will see he's trying his best to break thru, it's driving me insane fer gawds sake

I’m right there with you, Kenny! Pre-Sunderland, I was clamoring for Farke to simply pick the lineup that demonstrated the greatest sense of urgency in practice leading up to the match. And that was pre-Sunderland.

The opportunity is there for the taking, yet we continue to almost sleepwalk out there. I keep saying that changes are imperative and I think a good time should be either right at the start against Blackburn, or a 4-5 substitute switch at HT. Clear messages for scared, pedestrian play need to be sent.

[White Riot]

I doubt it.

Meslier plays more or less as a third centre-back.

Like I say Farke sees him as our playmaker

[Sean_Nile]

Regular as clock work the Ipswich manager brings on three subs at sixty minutes, works most times but not against Watford.

[DDB220]

I’m right there with you, Kenny! Pre-Sunderland, I was clamoring for Farke to simply pick the lineup that demonstrated the greatest sense of urgency in practice leading up to the match. And that was pre-Sunderland.

The opportunity is there for the taking, yet we continue to almost sleepwalk out there. I keep saying that changes are imperative and I think a good time should be either right at the start against Blackburn, or a 4-5 substitute switch at HT. Clear messages for scared, pedestrian play need to be sent.

You cannot commit 5 subs at half- time. What if a player gets injured, particularly your keeper or the keeper gets sent off.

[DDB220]

Farke needs tweaks not wholesale changes mid game.

[Madron]

He only needs to go on the attack right from the off, if and only then when the oppos decide to park the bus, if we can't batter thru it in 45mins, then ok, 2nd half try and drag them out, but ffs ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK, PIN THEM IN THEIR FINAL THIRD AND THROW EVERYTHING AT THEM...At least there won't be any minutes wasted tippy tappy at the back, that game suits virtually every single one of our players !!!

I'm still feckin blazin btw

And i can't feckin stand going down without a fight or giving it ALL we've got, at least the fans will see he's trying his best to break thru, it's driving me insane fer gawds sake

Spot on Kenny.
In the end its a simple mathematical fact- Increase the time that our forward line have the ball at their feet and you increase our goal scoring chances.
Ampadu and Rodon doing their Fred Astaire /Ginger Rogers impersonation will garner a grand total of Nil point.

[Sean_Nile]

Spot on Kenny.
In the end its a simple mathematical fact- Increase the time that our forward line have the ball at their feet and you increase our goal scoring chances.
Ampadu and Rodon doing their Fred Astaire /Ginger Rogers impersonation will garner a grand total of Nil point.

Ginger Rogers was a better dancer than Fred Astaire because she did all the same steps backwards and in heels

[Orange Box]

If we make the necessary changes an hour before kick off we won’t need to risk 5 subs at HT. At this stage of the season, tactically we are getting close to ‘sending the keeper forward at corners’ time.

[JoeDenver]

You cannot commit 5 subs at half- time. What if a player gets injured, particularly your keeper or the keeper gets sent off.

TBF, I was being a bit tongue in cheek with the HT subs comment…more or less to compensate for the inevitable zero changes to the starting lineup and zero subs until the 80th minute strategy that I fear is looming. But honestly, if things are going that poorly against Blackburn (who just got throttled 5-0, mind you), I don’t know.

An honest reflection by Farke should lead him to adding Willy in. That one change is imperative. Bigger question is who is that at the expense of…Geo or James. I’m also in favor of Roberts at the expense of Kamara who looks a shell of his old self of late (thus shifting Gray to MF), but I speculate that Farke will only allow himself to make one change to the lineup.

I’ve also said that whoever demonstrates the most urgency in training would be a good measure for selection…simply because the recent batch of 11 have been anything but.

Nonetheless, zero changes to the starting 11 would be negligent, IMHO.

[Kennyb41]

Spot on Kenny.
In the end its a simple mathematical fact- Increase the time that our forward line have the ball at their feet and you increase our goal scoring chances.
Ampadu and Rodon doing their Fred Astaire /Ginger Rogers impersonation will garner a grand total of Nil point.

He made quite a few changes for the Chelsea game Ron, and we still held our own !

It quite simply, is what these players are best at, and what comes natural to them.

You get the best out of Firpo attacking, which in turn helps Jimmy. The same with Gray and James/Gnonto, which then helps support and bring into play Bamford and Rutter.

We have seen in away games ALL season, a different Leeds, and yes they struggle to break thru when teams park the bus, but fer gawds sake, most teams do when they come up against that. And we are utter dogshit trying what we've recently seen.

I will feckin die tomorrow if he tries this shite again.

[DDB220]

He made quite a few changes for the Chelsea game Ron, and we still held our own !

It quite simply, is what these players are best at, and what comes natural to them.

You get the best out of Firpo attacking, which in turn helps Jimmy. The same with Gray and James/Gnonto, which then helps support and bring into play Bamford and Rutter.

We have seen in away games ALL season, a different Leeds, and yes they struggle to break thru when teams park the bus, but fer gawds sake, most teams do when they come up against that. And we are utter dogshit trying what we've recently seen.

I will feckin die tomorrow if he tries this shite again.

He is afraid of the counter Kenny. He wants to dominate the game possession wise before whipping the horse. It is difficult at the business end for players to play without fear of making a mistake. You can see it creeping in with a few in particular during the last few games with all the arm waving and passing backwards looking for the safe option.