Starting line-up?

[1964white]

I note Ali and Dallas are listed as defenders on the clubs site. Is this because Bielsa sees them mainly filling these roles or because they want to make it look like we have more defenders than we actually do?

We have Pablo, Costa, Harrison, Clarke & Stevens vying for the attacking flank roles so I reckon Bielsa looks upon Alioski & Dallas as wing-backs now

[The Subhuman]

I think Dallas is transitioning, has been for a season or two. I'm fine with us turning Alio into a WB but he's a long way to go and behind Douglas and Davis for me.

[Cjay]

Think Ali will start left back.

Was a left back/left wing back first, then interestingly another famous tactician Zdenek Zeman converted him to a right sided winger.

Ali still plays left back/left wing back for his country often.

Bielsa is clearly a big fan, practically ever present when fit including rarely substituted, in fact he appeared in 44 League games, 37 of those he played the full game, 1 he played over 80minutes and 1 he got injured in the 12th minute.

[YorkshireSquare]

This thread is really interesting regarding 4-1-4-1 vs 3-3-1-3

https://twitter.com/AllStatsArentWe/sta ... 5029673985

The squad seems primed to play 4-1-4-1, if we do play 3-3-1-3 from the start we are short of central defenders and seem to have far too many wingers. Where do Harrison and Clarke fit in? Who plays the right hand midfield role? Shack, Dallas?

[weasel]

I think people make too much out of numbers when it comes to formations. For example 4-1 with the 'flat back 4' and defensive midfield is really just the same as having 3 centre backs and 2 wingbacks. With Bielsa ball players aren't restricted to positions and that is the key to causing havoc against teams set up more traditionally. For example if our left back suddenly pops up on the right wing then who on earth in the opposition teams is meant to be marking him because I will guarantee you the opposition right winger won't track him all the way back to the opposite side of the pitch.

Having players like White who is able to bring the ball out of defence opens up space because he will usually be bringing the ball out with us having dispossessed their striker. As such their striker won't be in a position to try to tackle him and it then means a central midfielder has to try to stop him - if that happens then it should mean one of our central midfielders is no longer being marked so White then has an easy pass to a Leeds player who is unmarked.

Bielsa ball is all about creating positions on the field where we work it so we have a numerical advantage thus enabling us to have the space to create chances. That is why Bielsa prioritises the attacking attributes of our defenders because he needs all our defenders to be comfortable on the ball so they can pop up anywhere on the pitch and not simply lose the ball though a sh*t pass, or sh*t control.

[mothbanquet]

I think people make too much out of numbers when it comes to formations. For example 4-1 with the 'flat back 4' and defensive midfield is really just the same as having 3 centre backs and 2 wingbacks. With Bielsa ball players aren't restricted to positions and that is the key to causing havoc against teams set up more traditionally. For example if our left back suddenly pops up on the right wing then who on earth in the opposition teams is meant to be marking him because I will guarantee you the opposition right winger won't track him all the way back to the opposite side of the pitch.

Having players like White who is able to bring the ball out of defence opens up space because he will usually be bringing the ball out with us having dispossessed their striker. As such their striker won't be in a position to try to tackle him and it then means a central midfielder has to try to stop him - if that happens then it should mean one of our central midfielders is no longer being marked so White then has an easy pass to a Leeds player who is unmarked.

Bielsa ball is all about creating positions on the field where we work it so we have a numerical advantage thus enabling us to have the space to create chances. That is why Bielsa prioritises the attacking attributes of our defenders because he needs all our defenders to be comfortable on the ball so they can pop up anywhere on the pitch and not simply lose the ball though a sh*t pass, or sh*t control.

I'm quite interested to hear how you rate this system alongside others we've seen in the Championship. Do you have a favourite tactical setup that you'd like to see Leeds adopt?

[weasel]

I'm quite interested to hear how you rate this system alongside others we've seen in the Championship. Do you have a favourite tactical setup that you'd like to see Leeds adopt?

To be honest when it comes to tactics Bielsa is light miles ahead of us mere mortals. That is why he can do baffling things (i.e. selling PJ) but that they make sense to him because he knows exactly what he needs and whilst the players he has won't be exactly what he needs he is judging them by a different set of criteria to the normal ones. So for me or anyone to say a particular formation is the best way would just be foolish as Bielsa's way is the only way for him and his research and statistics. If he thinks playing 10 strikers and a defensive midfielder and no keeper was the way then it would probably work!

Any formation is reliant on the players at your disposal and whilst we could look at our squad and say we only have 2 centre backs (Cooper and White) and 1 of those hasn't played at championship level Bielsa probably thinks we have an abundance of centrebacks now as he will see all our fullbacks as being able to play in the back 3.

I am really excited though because we have generally kept the same players but Bielsa will have had chance to take them to another level this summer having already improved them massively last summer. The interchanging that looks set to happen up front between the wingers and no.10 positions could be unbelievable to watch and I can see us almost becoming Keeganesque this season and whilst we will at times be vulnerable at the back I can see us scoring 30 or 40 more goals than last season.

Personally I loved playing in a back 3. I'd usually be one of the man markers and allow a player more comfortable on the ball to be the spare man and give him license to go forward. People think having 3 centrebacks is a negative tactic but it is actually a very attacking formation if done properly as the wingbacks have complete freedom to be attacking as well as the spare centreback. It also means when defending you have that spare centreback that if he can read things well can get blocks in if a striker gets away from one of the other centrebacks, or can mark the attacking midfielders trying to arrive late etc.

[BGwhite]

Leeds can adapt any system they like but last season it was the end product that was lacking. We will probably dominate most games again this season but the vital question is; will there be an end product this time around ?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

[YorkshireSquare]

Personally I loved playing in a back 3. I'd usually be one of the man markers and allow a player more comfortable on the ball to be the spare man and give him license to go forward. People think having 3 centrebacks is a negative tactic but it is actually a very attacking formation if done properly as the wingbacks have complete freedom to be attacking as well as the spare centreback. It also means when defending you have that spare centreback that if he can read things well can get blocks in if a striker gets away from one of the other centrebacks, or can mark the attacking midfielders trying to arrive late etc.

It looks like he could go with a back 3.

Question is with Berra out for the first game does he stick with the 4 or go with three and pull Phillips back or play one of our wing backs in the middle?

Can see us playing 4 against Bristol then playing a back 3 when Berra is back.

[1964white]

It looks like he could go with a back 3.

Question is with Berra out for the first game does he stick with the 4 or go with three and pull Phillips back or play one of our wing backs in the middle?

Can see us playing 4 against Bristol then playing a back 3 when Berra is back.

Palace ran the robins ragged 0-5 at Ashton Gate last weekend

[Irish Ian]

Interesting that our starting lineup may not gave actually played together this pre season.

Complete opposite of last season as by Feb everyman and his dog knew what our team lineup was

[The Subhuman]

Not really ..it's the Bielsa way..probably won't have trained much together either

[YorkshireSquare]

Interesting that our starting lineup may not gave actually played together this pre season.

Complete opposite of last season as by Feb everyman and his dog knew what our team lineup was

De Bock and Viera played central defence together last pre-season

[Irish Ian]

De Bock and Viera played central defence together last pre-season

There was only one change between the side who started in the final warm up match ( Viera was sold on) and the side who played against Stoke the following week.

[Sara]

To be honest when it comes to tactics Bielsa is light miles ahead of us mere mortals. That is why he can do baffling things (i.e. selling PJ) but that they make sense to him because he knows exactly what he needs and whilst the players he has won't be exactly what he needs he is judging them by a different set of criteria to the normal ones. So for me or anyone to say a particular formation is the best way would just be foolish as Bielsa's way is the only way for him and his research and statistics. If he thinks playing 10 strikers and a defensive midfielder and no keeper was the way then it would probably work!

Any formation is reliant on the players at your disposal and whilst we could look at our squad and say we only have 2 centre backs (Cooper and White) and 1 of those hasn't played at championship level Bielsa probably thinks we have an abundance of centrebacks now as he will see all our fullbacks as being able to play in the back 3.

I am really excited though because we have generally kept the same players but Bielsa will have had chance to take them to another level this summer having already improved them massively last summer. The interchanging that looks set to happen up front between the wingers and no.10 positions could be unbelievable to watch and I can see us almost becoming Keeganesque this season and whilst we will at times be vulnerable at the back I can see us scoring 30 or 40 more goals than last season.

Personally I loved playing in a back 3. I'd usually be one of the man markers and allow a player more comfortable on the ball to be the spare man and give him license to go forward. People think having 3 centrebacks is a negative tactic but it is actually a very attacking formation if done properly as the wingbacks have complete freedom to be attacking as well as the spare centreback. It also means when defending you have that spare centreback that if he can read things well can get blocks in if a striker gets away from one of the other centrebacks, or can mark the attacking midfielders trying to arrive late etc.

I hate it when people quote long posts and then basically just agree, but... amen sister!

[mothbanquet]

Any formation is reliant on the players at your disposal and whilst we could look at our squad and say we only have 2 centre backs (Cooper and White) and 1 of those hasn't played at championship level Bielsa probably thinks we have an abundance of centrebacks now as he will see all our fullbacks as being able to play in the back 3.

I am really excited though because we have generally kept the same players but Bielsa will have had chance to take them to another level this summer having already improved them massively last summer.

This is where Bielsa differs so much from other managers we see, and why it's hard for some folks to wrap their heads around what he does. People are so used to seeing rigid definitions of roles and positions which is why we see that most overused of phrases 'square pegs round holes' when part of Bielsa's games is to soften up those pegs to fit numerous holes - which is exactly what we've seen with Phillips, Shackleton, Roberts, to great effect. So is the formation really reliant on players in this case? If anything it's the opposite with Bielsa, players moulded to fit his formations.

Personally I'm a fan of the counter-attacking 4-2-3-1, which Pochettino has really made shine in recent seasons. No secret that he has strong links with Bielsa and we see the latter's influences quite a bit in Poch's style. Bielsa I believe is more famous for his 3-3-3-1 formation overseas, so I was quite excited to see three CBs myself, more vintage El Loco.

[LUFC 1966]

Kiko
Dallas White Cooper Douglas
Costa Phillips Harrison
Klich Hernandez
Bamford