The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 4th November) - Leeds back in automatic places but Casilla facing 12 game ban

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning. Its Monday 4th November, and here is the latest news from Elland Road...


Solid display sees Whites regain automatic promotion spot

Leeds returned to the Summit of the Championship (temporarily) after a solid display against play off hopefuls QPR. Tyler Roberts rewarded Bielsa's faith in the Welsh International with a goal five minutes before half time. The 20 year old tucked away his chance from the edge of the 18 yard box to beat Kelly at his near side post after great work from Harrison. The match was wrapped up eight minutes from time when the aforementioned on loan Citeh winger latched onto a loose ball in the penalty area and calmly curled it round the keeper to put the game beyond the R's reach.

It would be fair to say that Biela's lads dominated the game and deserved their three points. The only statistic, albeit marginal that went against the Whites was possession 49% to 51% in favour of Mark Warburton's side. Out of eighteen chances, the Leeds found the target six times - a better statistic than what they are used to. Bamford found the back of the net midway through the second half, but he was adjudged to be marginally offside.

Nketiah Injury jynx and Post Match Press Conference

Eddie Nketiah must have been overjoyed when on Wednesday morning, the gaffer informed him that he would be starting the game against QPR on Saturday. Unfortunately for the 20 year old, he began feeling unwell and headed to hospital for scans on a lower abdominal injury. As of yet, we have no idea how long Eddie is going to be on the sidelines but 4 weeks has been rumoured. Bielsa explained in his post natch press conference...

Last night after training [Nketiah] had a pain in his abdomen. It didn't allow him to participate today. At this moment we don't know how serious it is. Eddie was going to play today from the beginning.

Casilla faces 12 match ban if found guilty of racial slur

The FA have employed the services of a Spanish lip reader in their quest to resolve the Kiko Casilla racism row. If found guilty, the ex Real Madrid shot stopper could be sidelined for twelve games. The incident dates back to the end of September when the Whites played Charlton in South London. Addicts on loan forward Jonathan Leko alleges that Casilla racially abused him during the game.

As a Leeds fan, if Casilla is guilty of the offence, do you want him at the club? Is it unfair on Leeds Utd (and the player) that the FA have to go to extraordinary measures to try and convict a player? Have you ever heard of this done before?

[Irish Ian]

Morning folks.

The FA will be using a lip reader to try and discern between what Kiko says he said and what Leko claims he said.
So that leaves the linguists to have their own separate discussion.
I think the story has been purposefully leaked by the FA to lessen the shock of a banner headline justin time for the final round of Euro qualifiers.

Unfortunately politics is in play here again as the FA want to look tough before UEFA after the Bulgaria fiasco.

It reminds me of the Bodyline series from the 30s.

England skipper Douglas Jardine has been sworn at by one of the Aussie fielders when he is batting and at the end of the days play knocks the door of the Aussie dressing room to demand an apology.

Aussie captain hears him out the shouts into the room..

"Oh! Which one of you b××××××s called this b×××××d,a b×××××d."


Eddie...

4 weeks means he will be back for the Boro game.

So in a nutshell, striker cant score, his understudy cant play and our keeper is banned.

Never easy supporting Leeds is it?

[Sara]

As discussed elsewhere, I suspect what Kiko said has simply been lost in translation. He ought to understand the implications if he's playing in this country, but in that case a warning should suffice. I don't have any confidence in the FA to make a balanced decision where Leeds are concerned though.

[Ellandback1]

R v John Terry

John Terry was alleged to have made a crude racist remark against Anton Ferdinand in the course of a televised Premier League football match between Chelsea FC and Queen's Park Rangers FC. Terry's remarks were seen in ten seconds of widely broadcast and re-broadcast close-up,[17] and he was prosecuted under public order crime provisions, which include offences which are racially aggravated.[18]

Terry's defence argued that the remark was made in response to an earlier accusation from Ferdinand; Terry was just "sarcastically repeating a racist slur" he thought Anton Ferdinand had wrongly accused him of making,[19] to refute the perceived allegation and to establish what had been said. In a joint report, two expert speecheaders corroborated the content of Terry's broadcast remarks, but could not infer why they were said, since there was no video record of the preceding context. The magistrate ruled that Terry could not be found guilty because of this uncertainty.[20][21]

The Football Association, whose Independent Regulatory Commission examined the case with a view to disciplinary action, came to a different conclusion. The Commission dismissed the lip readers' evidence, claiming "it is to be observed that the Chief Magistrate did not derive any real assistance from the evidence of the two lip readers who were called to give evidence",[22] although the Chief Magistrate had himself spoken of the importance of the lip reading evidence: "Other words appear to be spoken.

Both parties have agreed that expert evidence from lip readers is necessary to say what those words are. It is axiomatic that expert evidence is not called unless a particular expertise is needed to give an opinion to the court which the court cannot readily form itself."[20] The Commission based its decision (which required a lower standard of proof) on a transcription of the video evidence [23] that conflicted with the evidence of the lip readers.[20]:4 as well as on disputed circumstantial evidence and references to the disputed post-incident behaviour of Anton Ferdinand, John Terry, Ashley Cole and David Barnard.[24][25]

[rab_rant]

From racism in Association Football
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_ ... n_football

In April 2019, upon writing a piece in the Daily Mail, Raheem Sterling, “has called on the footballing authorities to punish racist abuse with an automatic nine-point deduction for clubs”. As opposed to handing out fines to those responsible.

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[BGwhite]

I despair at this club at times. No sooner do we fix one problem then another rears it's ugly head ready to derail our season and the FA are doing their level best to prove Kiko wrong. If he is proved guilty then so be it and he may not play for Leeds again and I fear that will be the catalyst for another season to die a slow death. There's never a dull moment at this club but I certainly wish there were a few at times instead of us being our own worst enemies.

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[Irish Ian]

So Kiko has been charged today with an "aggrevated breach" of their code.
defined by making reference to race and/or clour and/or ethnic origin”

Statement from Leeds.
Leeds United Football Club acknowledges the charge from the FA today relating to Kiko Casilla and an alleged breach of FA Rule E3 during our Sky Bet Championship match with Charlton Athletic at The Valley in September.

Kiko strenuously denies the allegation and has proactively worked with the FA during their investigation to date.

The next step of the process will be a personal hearing.


I would have thought a personal hearing would have predated a charge in a case of this nature.

[rab_rant]

The next step of the process will be a personal hearing.
I would have thought a personal hearing would have predated a charge in a case of this nature.

No you have got it all wrong. From the FA handbook on code of conduct
Section100 Paragraph 3.2Z which states
In any enquiry relating to Leeds United guilty should always be the verdict.
In helping to establish guilt, lip reading, semaphore, morse code and braille
deaf sign language, and masonic symbols and handshakes can be used to
establish guilt.

In the event of any appeal this affords the FA the opportunity to increase the penalty
to include points deduction, personal fine equal to 75% of the transfer fee paid for the player
and if the appeal is too strenuous a 12 match bar can be commuted to a lifetime ban.

[wilsdenwhite]

As a Leeds fan, if Casilla is guilty of the offence, do you want him at the club? Is it unfair on Leeds Utd (and the player) that the FA have to go to extraordinary measures to try and convict a player? Have you ever heard of this done before?

Wasn't a lip reader brought in to try and find out what John Terry said to Anton Ferdinand that time?

Anyway I think the sensible thing is just to wait and find out what it was exactly that Kiko is supposed to have said before passing judgement. Yes I have heard the rumours but they are just that so far. All this talk of what he said or the term he has used been seen as common in other countries is not going to wash I'm afraid, not with all that has been happening recently regarding racism in football. MB said going to watch the opposition train was normal too in other countries but that didn't stop the outcome of the punishment dished out.

The question I am asking myself is if what he said is considered common/normal in other countries and he genuinely believed he wouldn't get into trouble saying those terms in this country then yes I believe he should be given another chance to play for the club again. However if what he said was a blatant racist remark considered racist which ever country you play in or come from then no he should never play for the club again.

[SG90]

I don't think he should play for us again tbh, probably a loan back to Spain in January, but this is what Sky/press to try to cling onto to derail us. If guilty he should be punished, but why 12 games if others have only had 6?

[gessa]

I take it the Charlton player speaks Spanish, if they've had to get an interpreter in.

Didn't we have this"negro" issue with Bellusi?

[SG90]

I think it's a cultural difference between Spain and England, it's a lot more racially sensitive here compared to Spain and what might be seen as acceptable there isn't over here. It's the same as the Bernardo Silva incident. But we can do without all the baggage this will bring and having the gutter press class us as a racist club etc.

[rab_rant]

What would the loss of Kiko mean to Jack Clark??? A little wrinkle nobody has thought about.

From Football Fancast.

With the EFL’s current rules stating that you can only have five loanees
in a matchday squad, Leeds have had something of a dilemma in that department.

Indeed, due to the fact that the Whites have six loan players on their books,
they’ve had to leave one man out of the squad every week.

This has usually rotated between Jack Clarke and Meslier with the former
coming into the side when Pablo Hernandez was out. However,
if the Frenchman is to replace Casilla between the sticks then it will likely
mean that the winger drops out of the squad. The only reason he probably
didn’t last weekend was because of Eddie Nketiah’s absence.

[Irish Ian]

What would the loss of Kiko mean to Jack Clark??? A little wrinkle nobody has thought about.

From Football Fancast.

With the EFL’s current rules stating that you can only have five loanees
in a matchday squad, Leeds have had something of a dilemma in that department.

Indeed, due to the fact that the Whites have six loan players on their books,
they’ve had to leave one man out of the squad every week.

This has usually rotated between Jack Clarke and Meslier with the former
coming into the side when Pablo Hernandez was out. However,
if the Frenchman is to replace Casilla between the sticks then it will likely
mean that the winger drops out of the squad. The only reason he probably
didn’t last weekend was because of Eddie Nketiah’s absence.

I thought about.

Weeks ago.

Dont worry

After his shared MOTM ( or should that be POTM? ) on Saturday Pep will be on the blower demanding Harrison report back to Manchester.

Sorted.

[SG90]

What would the loss of Kiko mean to Jack Clark??? A little wrinkle nobody has thought about.

From Football Fancast.

With the EFL’s current rules stating that you can only have five loanees
in a matchday squad, Leeds have had something of a dilemma in that department.

Indeed, due to the fact that the Whites have six loan players on their books,
they’ve had to leave one man out of the squad every week.

This has usually rotated between Jack Clarke and Meslier with the former
coming into the side when Pablo Hernandez was out. However,
if the Frenchman is to replace Casilla between the sticks then it will likely
mean that the winger drops out of the squad. The only reason he probably
didn’t last weekend was because of Eddie Nketiah’s absence.

Who cares? He's not our player and he's being recalled anyway. I'd rather we gave our own players a chance instead.

[rab_rant]

Who cares? He's not our player and he's being recalled anyway. I'd rather we gave our own players a chance instead.

Don't be so hard and unfeeling.
When Jack was sold to Spurs then loaned back to us everyone thought it was a great bit of business. It is just sad it has not worked out for the lad, and if Kiko gets a ban then game time is even more remote an recall more likely. I don't think anybody would have wanted that scenario at the beginning of the season.

Perhaps you are tempering your disappointment by saying you don't care.

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[Sara]

Sorry if I'm being thick, but what has Kiko's ban got to do with Jack Clarke?

[rab_rant]

Sorry if I'm being thick, but what has Kiko's ban got to do with Jack Clarke?

you can only have 5 loan player on the team. if the french lad comes in for Kiko then that limits jacks chances of playing even more... in that he would not even make the bench.

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[Sara]

you can only have 5 loan player on the team. if the french lad comes in for Kiko then that limits jacks chances of playing even more... in that he would not even make the bench.

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Ah, thank you. I'd forgotten he was a loanee.

[rab_rant]

Ah, thank you. I'd forgotten he was a loanee.

My pleasure Miss Sara.