Coronavirus

[Smudge3920]

I would do anything to help anyone, I'd give you my last groat, but I'm not going to accept something purely on authority when it seems to me to be wrong or pointless.

I socially distance, I don't see large groups of people or go out in crowds, but I cannot and will not wear a mask.

I had my worst anxiety attack of the year yesterday because I had to go to the doctors, and was worried I'd have to wear one. Fortunately, they accepted that I am exempt, but by that time the damage had been done.

The self righteous and judgemental attitudes of others are a contributory factor, so please bear that in mind when you're wagging your fingers at people whose circumstances you don't understand.

I've had the virus; anecdotally, many other people I know have had it too. We're not part of the statistics. The most useful thing for us would be proper antibody tests, and reliable information about immunity so we can get back to normal. What percentage of the population this applies to, nobody knows.

I truly empathise with your situation Sara. However you are not being forced to wear mask, exemptions are in place for people such as yourself for a reason... Those that ignore your situation are just showing their ignorance and lack of empathy.
Testing as you point out is a major concern, but with the millions upon millions (billions) requiring testing, the logistics of that is staggering.
Stay safe.

[1964white]

Rab, my dear! you are so far removed from the truth of it, it is sad. I am not an "enthusiast of lockdowns", as I am sure neither are the other's you accuse of this.
My argument is that the lockdowns following the first one following the initial outbreak, are because of people like yourself who refuse to follow simple guidelines. By following these guidelines it would allow the phased opening's and return to work which has been the objective. Your (and other's like you) actions, have caused this reversal.
You then come on here and try to baffle people with stats from all over the world and use a vocabulary right out of the Oxford English dictionary... Anyone who can read and has a search engine can find the minutest stats to support their case. The problem lie's when they only focus on the stats that support their own position.
I personally read both side's, I then form an opinion and use that in discussion. But more than that I watch, I listen and absorb what is going on around the world, as things you see and hear yourself cannot be manipulated by anyone... And if we follow what you advocate Rab, then the end game of this virus will be worse than the Spanish flu pandemic.
You live in Finland, I live in Canada...we are both very fortunate to have not been effected by this virus as other's... Hector, has lost loved one's close to him, '64 has lost some he know's, ... me I have not lost anyone yet to this virus, however I have a grandchild who through no fault of her own has an highly compromised immune system, having had her thyroid removed due to throat cancer, she is 22 years old. I have other family member's who are also compromised, but I will not bore you with those details and stat's.
If you see me as a lockdown enthusiast, so be it, I really do not care, after 25 years of military life and seeing combat the world over doe's that make me a "war enthusiast"? or someone who did their job?.. You can make arguments on both side's right?
Be careful what you accuse people of Rab, I will discuss any topic with you at any length... when you start accusing, it means you are losing your argument.

Four of our villagers work in the NHS, I've heard some horrific stories

All four would despair just as much as I do!

[Smudge3920]

Four of our villagers work in the NHS, I've heard some horrific stories

All four would despair just as much as I do!

Mate my next door neighbour is a nurse, and due to the fact we have been luckier than most, she volunteered along with others to go where needed, she ended up in Quebec... working 16-20 hour days , sleeping and eating at work for over 6 months, she is finally home, alas she was brought home in an ambulance after collapsing with exhaustion and catching the virus because her immune system was so weak due to said exhaustion, now in the intensive care.... she is 28 years old.
It is brutal mate.

[rab_rant]

Smudge just tell me would prefer to develop immunity through contracting the virus ( where you have 99% chance of survival ) or develop immunity through a vaccine that you do not know the long term side effects?

Here is a little video that although bordering on the scifi, may give you an insight into the technologies that are being used by Moderna to develop a vaccine.


https://youtu.be/V3YcySUvhLc

Sent from my SM-T515 using Tapatalk

[The Subhuman]

I, as an asthmatic coeliac, will probably forego the vaccine to start with until there's been enough time to allow for long term side effects..I'm still struggling from the pneumonia jab I had in January and flu jabs make me unwell for about three months.

[Smudge3920]

Smudge just tell me would prefer to develop immunity through contracting the virus ( where you have 99% chance of survival ) or develop immunity through a vaccine that you do not know the long term side effects?

Here is a little video that although bordering on the scifi, may give you an insight into the technologies that are being used by Moderna to develop a vaccine.


https://youtu.be/V3YcySUvhLc

Sent from my SM-T515 using Tapatalk

Seen it, I would off course prefer to develop immunity through contraction, but sadly now I am 66 years old, due to "naughty events" by the Russian's and Syrian's when I was playing in the sandbox, I cannot afford to catch it. The risk is to great for me .
As for the vaccine, I doubt very much I would take it if one comes available in the next few months as some wingnuts are predicting, nor would I support my family taking it either. however after following all the protocols of normal vaccine development, yes I would.

[hector]

You were in the Stan in the 80's too Smudge??

[Smudge3920]

You were in the Stan in the 80's too Smudge??

Nah mate the other sandbox following Gulf 1... Was in Stan when I was with the Canadian militia (TA) as a watchkeeper (After retirement from our mob) , got on a few walkabouts but nothing too exciting...

[1964white]

Mate my next door neighbour is a nurse, and due to the fact we have been luckier than most, she volunteered along with others to go where needed, she ended up in Quebec... working 16-20 hour days , sleeping and eating at work for over 6 months, she is finally home, alas she was brought home in an ambulance after collapsing with exhaustion and catching the virus because her immune system was so weak due to said exhaustion, now in the intensive care.... she is 28 years old.
It is brutal mate.

Poor woman, lets hope she makes a full recovery Smudge

[Smudge3920]

Poor woman, lets hope she makes a full recovery Smudge

... its looking good, saw her husband earlier , she is doing better.

[BobHirst]

Smudge just tell me would prefer to develop immunity through contracting the virus ( where you have 99% chance of survival ) or develop immunity through a vaccine that you do not know the long term side effects?

Here is a little video that although bordering on the scifi, may give you an insight into the technologies that are being used by Moderna to develop a vaccine.


https://youtu.be/V3YcySUvhLc

Sent from my SM-T515 using Tapatalk

I'm not a pro rule fanatic by any means. I do believe that I owe my fellow man the respect of trying not to infect myself and possibly then others. The majority "expert" opinion seems to indicate that the simple acts of wearing masks, washing hands and social distancing do help in preventing the spread.
I will not immediately get the vaccine. That lunatic Trump is trying to shortcut the usual process regarding clinical trials and approval of a new vaccine.
I keep asking this question, and none of the denyers have yet given me a "sensible" response.
You appear to regard the virus as no big deal.

Please tell me what has caused over 200,000 more deaths ABOVE NORMAL this year in the USA?

[Chilli D]

Rab, my dear! you are so far removed from the truth of it, it is sad. I am not an "enthusiast of lockdowns", as I am sure neither are the other's you accuse of this.
My argument is that the lockdowns following the first one following the initial outbreak, are because of people like yourself who refuse to follow simple guidelines. By following these guidelines it would allow the phased opening's and return to work which has been the objective. Your (and other's like you) actions, have caused this reversal.
You then come on here and try to baffle people with stats from all over the world and use a vocabulary right out of the Oxford English dictionary... Anyone who can read and has a search engine can find the minutest stats to support their case. The problem lie's when they only focus on the stats that support their own position.
I personally read both side's, I then form an opinion and use that in discussion. But more than that I watch, I listen and absorb what is going on around the world, as things you see and hear yourself cannot be manipulated by anyone... And if we follow what you advocate Rab, then the end game of this virus will be worse than the Spanish flu pandemic.
You live in Finland, I live in Canada...we are both very fortunate to have not been effected by this virus as other's... Hector, has lost loved one's close to him, '64 has lost some he know's, ... me I have not lost anyone yet to this virus, however I have a grandchild who through no fault of her own has an highly compromised immune system, having had her thyroid removed due to throat cancer, she is 22 years old. I have other family member's who are also compromised, but I will not bore you with those details and stat's.
If you see me as a lockdown enthusiast, so be it, I really do not care, after 25 years of military life and seeing combat the world over doe's that make me a "war enthusiast"? or someone who did their job?.. You can make arguments on both side's right?
Be careful what you accuse people of Rab, I will discuss any topic with you at any length... when you start accusing, it means you are losing your argument.
Stay safe.

Well said.

[Broad Ford]

Problem for me is people with healthy immune systems (who may not be at risk) passing it on to family members who have not got a healthy immune system and are at risk. Surely our elderly/ill family members need protecting....don't they?

The economy, British peoples businesses and civil liberties need protecting too. Would you suggest that everybody, ie, industry and emergency workers, shop, bank staff and utility workers, etc, etc, all stay at home for a month or two where the virus can then burn itself out once and for all? Imagine a ghost town where nothing moves, would this be the way to stamp out the virus?

I can't change my thinking that a global virus needs a global solution, delivered by a global governing body to a global population paralised by fear of infection. The only hope of a return to normality is to accept the proposed solution of a temporary lockdown (6 months and counting) and a vaccine to ensure that you are not dangerous to others after lockdown ends. The problem for me is that where crowds gather folk will need a digital pass to gain access, or entry is denied. Imagine trying to enter supermarkets, schools, universities, football stadiums or using public transport without a digital pass showing vaccination? Is cash to be phased out and replaced with a digital currency because of a risk of infected bank notes and coins. It would seem the globalists are at work and we need to be vigilant.

[weasel]

Please tell me what has caused over 200,000 more deaths ABOVE NORMAL this year in the USA?

America's population in 2019 was over 328 million people. A 200,000 rise in deaths is a rise of 0.06% so a rise in deaths of 6 people per 10,000 people or 600 people per million people.

So keep that rise in mind 0.06%. Now from 2018 to 2019 the rise in deaths in the USA so a growth of 1.12%. The rise from 2017 to 2018 was 1.22%. So the difference in increases simply between those 2 years (1.12% one year and 1.22% in another) is 0.1%. Now correct me if I am wrong but was there something that happened in 2017 to 2018 that causes loads of extra deaths that didn't happen in 2018 to 2019? Or perhaps they discovered some amazing cure for something. Because that shows the variance between 2 years was 0.1% so the figure given of 200,000 extra deaths between 2 years which was a rise of 0.06% is considerably less than a variance of 0.1% which happened just a couple of years earlier.

It just shows that picking some isolated figure and turning it into a worrying headline can make anything sound horrific. Dig just a little bit deeper and hey presto it becomes just misinformation.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/U ... death-rate

Have a look it changes year on year, sometimes up, sometimes down. Alarmingly we have a much higher death rate than the USA yet we mock their health system and their general lardiness.

[Smudge3920]

I am sure when you put it that way Weasel, the 200,000 families will realise that their grieving is being nothing but selfish. After all 0.06% is nothing at all is it?...

When you start putting people's lives into numbers, then start using death rates (new) as a percentage with the small variances over several years, with a baseline of 328Million, you make it seem like your argument is solid... Yet... 200,000 families (in 2020 in the USA)) would vehemently disagree with you... Why is that?

Mark Twain said it best...
"There are three kind of lies...lies, damned lies and statistics"

however at the end of day, it is still 0.06% (new) deaths or 200,000 (new) deaths due to the corona virus is it not?

(0.06% X 328,000,000 = 196,800)

[Sara]

however at the end of day, it is still 0.06% (new) deaths or 200,000 (new) deaths due to the corona virus is it not?

No, I think I've seen that the CNC website puts the figure due to the virus, rather than with the virus, at 6% of that figure. I'll see if I can find it...

[Smudge3920]

No, I think I've seen that the CNC website puts the figure due to the virus, rather than with the virus, at 6% of that figure. I'll see if I can find it...

Save yourself some time Sara, I really don't care what they say (bedside's I have seen them)... You can add those with pre existing conditions or not... I choose to add them, as they were still living before they got the virus to boot...

[Sara]

CDC, not CNC. You don't care what the official site says? Your mind is closed, then.

It's in here somewhere, but as you say, I won't waste any more time looking.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... talandrate

[Smudge3920]

CDC, not CNC. You don't care what the official site says? Your mind is closed, then.

It's in here somewhere, but as you say, I won't waste any more time looking.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... talandrate

I realised your typo) Really my mind is closed... ... you have pre existing conditions Sara, by your own admission... should you be ignored also ?...

plus why did you ignore my comment...

You can add those with pre existing conditions or not... I choose to add them, as they were still living before they got the virus to boot...

?

[Sara]

really my mind is closed... ... you have pre existing conditions Sara, by your own admission... should you be ignored also ?

I think you're (deliberately?) misunderstanding the point, which is that you can't say how many of those 200,000 people would have died anyway in that year, even without exposure to covid. That makes the figure meaningless as an indicator of the deadlines of the virus. Weasel has already pointed out to you that the figure is within the natural range of annual fluctuation.

The Infection Fatality Ratios by age group are as follows, again from the official site:

0-19 years: 0.00003
20-49 years: 0.0002
50-69 years: 0.005
70+ years: 0.054

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... arios.html#

None of this is to minimise the suffering of those who have lost loved ones, but you do a disservice by failing to use the figures properly. Exaggerating the effects of the disease is as bad as understating it imo.