Irish Ian wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:06 am
Yes I did think about it.
You have two homegrown lads who left MLS years ago to improve their game alongside a young English lad who left The US four and a half years ago to pursue an upward trajectory back in England.
Two went via the continent where they were brought through by both their club and National side.
Harrison developed well under Bielsa to become a sought after winger in PL.
Kai couldn't get a kick in the German third division and at 22 left for MLS.
Opposite trajectories.
As for low risk / reward signing... Pascal and Hjelde are there already. Why buy another who isnt any better and perhaps could hold them back?
Are you not being a little bit too possessive of all things associated MLS?
No bias here by the way.
I appreciate your reply Irish. It's clear that you have thought about those players and the path they have taken. You have done your homework. And I respect that!
With regard to MLS. I'll concede that I am protective of the league. I've been a huge advocate for football/futbol/soccer here in the USA. I supported it when it was complete crap because we had to. It's taken us 27 years and billions of dollars in investment to build something respectable out of nothing. And so I defend it much like a parent defends its child. Perhaps I read some anti MLS bias where none actually existed. My apologies.
Having conceded my own pro MLS bias, what I try to do with regard to players is evaluate the ones that can make the jump to a higher level. So in the case of Kai Wagner it may just be a case of you and I disagreeing on relative potential. I see him as a late bloomer that has more room to grow. It may be that you think he has found his level in MLS.
We can certainly agree to disagree on that. Cheers!
BlackHillsPaul wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:43 pm
I appreciate your reply Irish. It's clear that you have thought about those players and the path they have taken. You have done your homework. And I respect that!
With regard to MLS. I'll concede that I am protective of the league. I've been a huge advocate for football/futbol/soccer here in the USA. I supported it when it was complete crap because we had to. It's taken us 27 years and billions of dollars in investment to build something respectable out of nothing. And so I defend it much like a parent defends its child. Perhaps I read some anti MLS bias where none actually existed. My apologies.
Having conceded my own pro MLS bias, what I try to do with regard to players is evaluate the ones that can make the jump to a higher level. So in the case of Kai Wagner it may just be a case of you and I disagreeing on relative potential. I see him as a late bloomer that has more room to grow. It may be that you think he has found his level in MLS.
We can certainly agree to disagree on that. Cheers!
' "Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
I think the main trouble that the MLS has, in terms of how it is viewed in this country, is that the only time we really here about it is when some 'superstar' goes there to basically retire. The likes of Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard and Bale. Great players at their prime but well past their prime so it comes accross as they are just going there for the money, for the ease as it is the same language, and a lower standard of football where they can still look decent. In that way it then draws comparisons to the US leagues of the past when the likes of Pele went there when the best part of his career was long past him.
That is the trouble the MLS has in terms of how it then is viewed in terms of being a top league. A league full of youngsters that haven't been snapped up by the top clubs using it as a stepping stone, players (like Wagner) who haven't managed to do it in top leagues so go there as it is easier then shine (that immediately makes the league look inferior) or the retirement home.
It is also harder for the league to impress as their teams don't play in the European Cups so whereas we could look at a team, let's say RB Salsburg, playing in the european competition and beating, or playing well, against a top side we don't get to see that with any of the US teams. Teh Haag for example made his reputation based on his Ajax team reaching the semi-finals of the Champions League. If they hadn't done that then his reputation is nowhere near as high as all he would be seen as would be a manager that had won the league in a division where usually it is one by one of a couple of teams, in a similar way to a manager winning the title with Rangers or Celtic in Scotland.
Not sure what the overall solution is but players being signed from the MLS and doing really well would be the biggest endorsement of the MLS.
Clacton White wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:49 pm
Nothing unusual.....he seems to have the whole of January off anyway and seemed like he had from July through to September last year . Nice work if you can get it . I think the rest of the time revolves around playing Football Manager . There is useless, and then there is Victor Orta a few levels beneath that !
weasel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:09 pm
I think the main trouble that the MLS has, in terms of how it is viewed in this country, is that the only time we really here about it is when some 'superstar' goes there to basically retire. The likes of Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard and Bale. Great players at their prime but well past their prime so it comes accross as they are just going there for the money, for the ease as it is the same language, and a lower standard of football where they can still look decent. In that way it then draws comparisons to the US leagues of the past when the likes of Pele went there when the best part of his career was long past him.
That is the trouble the MLS has in terms of how it then is viewed in terms of being a top league. A league full of youngsters that haven't been snapped up by the top clubs using it as a stepping stone, players (like Wagner) who haven't managed to do it in top leagues so go there as it is easier then shine (that immediately makes the league look inferior) or the retirement home.
It is also harder for the league to impress as their teams don't play in the European Cups so whereas we could look at a team, let's say RB Salsburg, playing in the european competition and beating, or playing well, against a top side we don't get to see that with any of the US teams. Teh Haag for example made his reputation based on his Ajax team reaching the semi-finals of the Champions League. If they hadn't done that then his reputation is nowhere near as high as all he would be seen as would be a manager that had won the league in a division where usually it is one by one of a couple of teams, in a similar way to a manager winning the title with Rangers or Celtic in Scotland.
Not sure what the overall solution is but players being signed from the MLS and doing really well would be the biggest endorsement of the MLS.
Myself and most serious long time supporters of the league hate the Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Bale type of signings because it feeds into the stereotype. When the truth is that there are only a handful of those type of players in the 28 team league at any given time. I would also add that it is the British players that are the worst offenders. (I'll exclude the Scots). They are the ones that come here to play golf and live in anonymity. Most of the continental Europe or SA players returning from Europe come here to play.
MLS is NOT a "top league". None of us are under any illusions. But we are an ever improving league. A league with serious intentions. A league full of world class stadiums and training facilities. And a place where young talent can develop. You would be shocked at the number of young South American players that are coming here. And the academies are starting to churn out very talented American youngsters as well.
It's really not my intention to come here and promote MLS. I'm here to support LUFC and participate in the discussions. And to hopefully add my thoughts and insights about players from a perspective that many of you don't have.
P.S. For the first time in history an MLS club will participate in the FIFA Club World Cup. You can all get a better idea of the standard of our league by watching Seattle Sounders take on the Champion's of Europe and South America in a competitive match. Should be fun!!
I have watched MLS games when they are on free TV.
Plenty of technically gifted players in there.
Go Toronto!
' "Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
BlackHillsPaul wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:17 pm
Myself and most serious long time supporters of the league hate the Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Bale type of signings because it feeds into the stereotype. When the truth is that there are only a handful of those type of players in the 28 team league at any given time. I would also add that it is the British players that are the worst offenders. (I'll exclude the Scots). They are the ones that come here to play golf and live in anonymity. Most of the continental Europe or SA players returning from Europe come here to play.
MLS is NOT a "top league". None of us are under any illusions. But we are an ever improving league. A league with serious intentions. A league full of world class stadiums and training facilities. And a place where young talent can develop. You would be shocked at the number of young South American players that are coming here. And the academies are starting to churn out very talented American youngsters as well.
It's really not my intention to come here and promote MLS. I'm here to support LUFC and participate in the discussions. And to hopefully add my thoughts and insights about players from a perspective that many of you don't have.
P.S. For the first time in history an MLS club will participate in the FIFA Club World Cup. You can all get a better idea of the standard of our league by watching Seattle Sounders take on the Champion's of Europe and South America in a competitive match. Should be fun!!
One of my suggestions would have been to get rid of the signing of the past it players. Not a surprise that it is the british players that do the golf etc rather than going over to give it their all. Not a coincidence that 3 of the 4 players I listed had never played football in any foreign league and never tested themselves in Italy , Spain etc and then take the easy option of going to the USA where language isn't a problem. Even Bale failed to integrate himself into the Spanish way of life and I don't believe he learnty to speak Spanish despite how long he was there.
Will be good to see how the Sounders do against European opposition in a competitive match and against the Brazillians, Argentinians etc rather than simply against the likes of Mexican teams.
Not only is he
A) Crap but
B) How can Chelsea spend £100ms every season when they lose £100m every year and they haven't sold anyone? They are the FA's untouchable golden boys it seems.
SG90 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:12 pm
Chelsea £40m bid for Gordon rejected!
Not only is he
A) Crap but
B) How can Chelsea spend £100ms every season when they lose £100m every year and they haven't sold anyone? They are the FA's untouchable golden boys it seems.
His Premier League goal contribution record isn't that much better than Tyler Roberts.
Both of them in the every 400minutes club.
£40mil .
I'd have snapped there arm off
Gelhardt incidentally 6 goals in just 700 -800minites at Prem level.
Cjay wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:16 pm
Still think if we sign a striker that isn't the young Italian then it will be Martin Terrier who Phil says we have done extensive research on.
Same age as Jamie Vardy was then he signed for Leicester and only almost exactly 1 year older than Kante.
Hardly geriatric Radz.
The obsession with re-sale value will limit the market.
Anyone else feel that the bubble has started to burst already? The crazy price tags have put off a lot of moves and the spending seems to go down every season now. There is very little value for money anymore. The anomalies are the oil rich clubs like Chelsea and Man City, but even Newcastle aren't spending loads.
SG90 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:37 pm
Anyone else feel that the bubble has started to burst already? The crazy price tags have put off a lot of moves and the spending seems to go down every season now. There is very little value for money anymore. The anomalies are the oil rich clubs like Chelsea and Man City, but even Newcastle aren't spending loads.
Apart from Grealish I can't really recall Man City paying over the odds for a player in recent years. When they have spent fairly big they have spent wisely and I think they have even made a profit on transfers this summer (or not much in debt).
weasel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:42 pmOne of my suggestions would have been to get rid of the signing of the past it players. Not a surprise that it is the british players that do the golf etc rather than going over to give it their all. Not a coincidence that 3 of the 4 players I listed had never played football in any foreign league and never tested themselves in Italy , Spain etc and then take the easy option of going to the USA where language isn't a problem. Even Bale failed to integrate himself into the Spanish way of life and I don't believe he learnty to speak Spanish despite how long he was there.
Will be good to see how the Sounders do against European opposition in a competitive match and against the Brazillians, Argentinians etc rather than simply against the likes of Mexican teams.
You're not wrong Weasel. And I've argued that point to death on MLS message boards. But there will always be exceptions. Our former Leeds United player Robbie Keane is an excellent example of a guy that came to play. He came over during the 2011 season at the age of 31. He ended up playing 5 1/2 seasons making 125 appearances and scoring something like 85 goals. He was all in on the LA Galaxy project in those years playing with David Beckham and Landon Donovan. He was no longer Premier League level. But he elevated the level of MLS. And he helped his team win trophies. Nothing but respect for Robbie Keane!!
It seems I've highjacked another thread. Sorry to all the friendly folk reading this stuff. How about those Kai Wagner to LUFC rumors???
There' absolutely nothing wrong in throwing your recommendations up here Paul, it would be even more interesting if one of them actually happened then we could judge your eye.
Rasmus seems to be coming in for some stick on the match threads, which already has me concerned about Jesses recommendations.
Not dependent on Google, the www or 'stats' - Just a guy that puts his eyes to full use on the beautiful game
Phil Hay said on podcast that Marsch said Bamford isn't fit and they have to manage him and see how he feels game by game.
He also said that the narrative has definitely changed from definitely want a striker to we will do one if we can but are happy to go with what we have.
He also said they won't do a left back in his view
(Cjay says that a Jack Harrison sale would have funded De Ketelaere. The narrative regarding Harrison leaving changed from we will see to definitely not once De Ketelaere was clearly joining Milan. I have no proof but it fits well and clearly we haven't got any money left despite apparently having £30mil for De Ketelaere) Marsch's tone regarding transfers changed after he met Radz for the meeting.
. There is useless, and then there is Victor Orta a few levels beneath that !
but
They are the FA's untouchable golden boys it seems.
