The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 21st September) - Chelsea target Orta for new Sporting Director Role

[Mountain]

Bielsa made the final decision on JKA

Did he?

Did he negotiate the terms and sign the cheque? I'm surprised a manager would have agreed the "must buy" provision. It seems like utter insanity for a club to even expect him to do the paperwork which is now being picked apart by highly paid legal teams.

[Cjay]

Did he?

Did he negotiate the terms and sign the cheque? I'm surprised a manager would have agreed the "must buy" provision. It seems like utter insanity for a club to even expect him to do the paperwork which is now being picked apart by highly paid legal teams.

This has been done to death but Bielsa agreed on all the signings.

And as with Dan James as we saw he will have analysed them all

We know this because when it hasn't happened at other clubs and they have signed players he didn't want Bielsa said so, publicly.

Did so at Marseille, did so at Lille and did so at Lazio.

Obviously didn't negotiate financial side but he signed off on every one.

[Kennyb41]

If only she'd have kept her gob shut.

https://leeds.vitalfootball.co.uk/victo ... ds-reveal/

[Ellandback1]

Did he?

Did he negotiate the terms and sign the cheque? I'm surprised a manager would have agreed the "must buy" provision. It seems like utter insanity for a club to even expect him to do the paperwork which is now being picked apart by highly paid legal teams.

Bielsa had the final say, it was Orta's job to come up with three names for him to pick from.

The only player Orta insisted on, was Llorente.

[Ellandback1]

If only she'd have kept her gob shut.

https://leeds.vitalfootball.co.uk/victo ... ds-reveal/

That's a fan's perspective, not a fact!

[Mountain]

This has been done to death but Bielsa agreed on all the signings.

But...hold on...surely fans realise that the Court case and the entire litigation is not about whether JKA was a good or bad player?

The Court case is over the terms of the contract. It's very much a legal battle over interpretation of contractual paperwork. That's the disaster.

Are fans really saying the terms of the contract were agreed to by Bielsa? Afaik he doesn't have any qualifications in law! I mean, did Orta and Radz not realise he needed an interpreter? If they decided he'd get final approval of very complex contractual terms (and they clearly are complex given the protracted litigation) ...that's insane.

[Kennyb41]

That's a fan's perspective, not a fact!

I don't deal in facts

They're usually lies, like Bert telling the newpapers Firpo's a cracking player, but secretly thinking " htf did i keep a straight face then"

You see, that's a fact, that Bert did actually say it in front of the cameras, but is it the truth from him.

[Cjay]

But...hold on...surely fans realise that the Court case and the entire litigation is not about whether JKA was a good or bad player?

The Court case is over the terms of the contract. It's very much a legal battle over interpretation of contractual paperwork. That's the disaster.

Are fans really saying the terms of the contract were agreed to by Bielsa? Afaik he doesn't have any qualifications in law! I mean, did Orta and Radz not realise he needed an interpreter? If they decided he'd get final approval of very complex contractual terms (and they clearly are complex given the protracted litigation) ...that's insane.

Of course Bielsa isn't responsible for the fees and whatnot we agreed to pay for JKA.

He isn't responsible for the wording of contracts and all that stuff, that is on Kinnear and Orta I'd imagine and Radz for signing off over all.

Orta scouted and analysed the player and all that as is his job. Orta probably helped negotiate the fees and all that but Kinnear as Chief Executive will have been heavily involved to on the financial side.

And Radz as overall boss will have signed off.

You could even say of the 3 Radz is least responsible except for listening to his two employees, but as the owner and overall boss he is complicit.

Bielsa is only responsible because he will have given Orta his approval for the signing after Undoubtedly having done his own due diligence using his own team of analysts.

Which given JKA's well publicised disciplinary and fitness issues, not to mention his lack of recent football is strange.

If Bielsa hadn't have agreed to JKA the player when Orta proposed him then the deal never happens.

And we know Bielsa had no issue saying if he felt a player had been signed against his will because when Marseille signed Doria Bielsa said publicly he had had no input in the deal.

[thatchapcarnell]

Yeah i must say i noticed that after i posted, kinhell they're not gonna break any records are they, i hope i'm still alive to see their first star.

Welcome all and sundry 64, after all it's a democracy we live in and thus have to accept the thick gits like yours truly, along with the fcking smartarses that interfere with evolution And are usually of a certain religious persuasion

Anyhows, back on topic....Orta's a knob.

Quality not quantity

Orta could learn from me.

Thanks for the welcome guys. I lurk a lot but don't post that often. Have followed the Whites since I was a nipper back in about 1990. Was a good time to start and its been variable since to say the least!

[Mountain]

Of course Bielsa isn't responsible for the fees and whatnot we agreed to pay for JKA.

He isn't responsible for the wording of contracts and all that stuff, that is on Kinnear and Orta I'd imagine and Radz for signing off over all.

Precisely, I agree. To pin responsibility on him for the disaster in the JKA transaction (and the disaster was the paperwork, that's the whole court case) is ludicrous. He didn't have final say, in fact he may not have had any say, in the issue that may cost the club tens of millions.

[Ellandback1]

But...hold on...surely fans realise that the Court case and the entire litigation is not about whether JKA was a good or bad player?

The Court case is over the terms of the contract. It's very much a legal battle over interpretation of contractual paperwork. That's the disaster.

Are fans really saying the terms of the contract were agreed to by Bielsa? Afaik he doesn't have any qualifications in law! I mean, did Orta and Radz not realise he needed an interpreter? If they decided he'd get final approval of very complex contractual terms (and they clearly are complex given the protracted litigation) ...that's insane.

Bielsa said I choose JKA. The Court case relates to Leeds not paying up

[Ellandback1]

Precisely, I agree. To pin responsibility on him for the disaster in the JKA transaction (and the disaster was the paperwork, that's the whole court case) is ludicrous. He didn't have final say, in fact he may not have had any say, in the issue that may cost the club tens of millions.

Leeds agreedto buy JKA if they got promoted, then tried to get out of it via a loop hole. That doesn't change the fact, that EVERY player Leeds signed had to be signed off by Bielsa. It was a c**k up al round.

[Irish Ian]

And this forum went into overload on what a wonderful coup we had in snatching JKA away from Old Trafford.

How great we all were.

(While at the same time cursing Orta for every breath he took)

As they say. If hindsight was foresight you would have insight..

[Cjay]

Precisely, I agree. To pin responsibility on him for the disaster in the JKA transaction (and the disaster was the paperwork, that's the whole court case) is ludicrous. He didn't have final say, in fact he may not have had any say, in the issue that may cost the club tens of millions.

He had a say in the player signing in the first place.

If Bielsa doesn't agree to the player coming then we don't get to the point of discussing financial.

Bielsa isn't responsible for the actual financial aspect, but he is responsible for agreeing to sign JKA in the first place.

[Cjay]

And this forum went into overload on what a wonderful coup we had in snatching JKA away from Old Trafford.

How great we all were.

(While at the same time cursing Orta for every breath he took)

As they say. If hindsight was foresight you would have insight..

We are only fans.

We don't have the access to data and scouts and analysts that Orta does.

And that is where red flags should have been caused.

But even just a Google told us JKA had had plenty of discipline and fitness issues which had caused previous managers to criticise him publicly.

Those concerns were mentioned when he signed by some of us.

Can't blame fans for being excited given his pedigree and the fact we were desperate for a striker.

Orta is meant to go much deeper than that and than we could.

He decided to risk that much money on a player even Google told you was a massive risk.

JKA's issues were public knowledge, a DOF should weigh that up against the risk to the club.

And thus isn't the first time Orta choose to ignore well known issues

He was going to spend £20mil on Cuisance.

Or remember Jerry Mbakogu who Orta wanted to spend £4mil on only for him to be released months later.

[The Subhuman]

Hate to see Orta go, I know that's me in the minority, Chelsea would be getting a good un if they get him. Fingers firmly crossed they don't

[The Subhuman]

And this forum went into overload on what a wonderful coup we had in snatching JKA away from Old Trafford.

How great we all were.

(While at the same time cursing Orta for every breath he took)

As they say. If hindsight was foresight you would have insight..

There is a stench of hypocricy here at times.....

[The Subhuman]

Not every signing had to be blessed by Bielsa, Llorente was one he didn't want apparently, and I think a lot of the excellent youth set up is down to Orta.

[Ellandback1]

We are only fans.

We don't have the access to data and scouts and analysts that Orta does.

And that is where red flags should have been caused.

But even just a Google told us JKA had had plenty of discipline and fitness issues which had caused previous managers to criticise him publicly.

Those concerns were mentioned when he signed by some of us.

Can't blame fans for being excited given his pedigree and the fact we were desperate for a striker.

Orta is meant to go much deeper than that and than we could.

He decided to risk that much money on a player even Google told you was a massive risk.

JKA's issues were public knowledge, a DOF should weigh that up against the risk to the club.

And thus isn't the first time Orta choose to ignore well known issues

He was going to spend £20mil on Cuisance.

Or remember Jerry Mbakogu who Orta wanted to spend £4mil on only for him to be released months later.

But Leeds were desperate. Nketiah had gone back to Arsenal as Bielsa hardly ever played him. We went after Che Adams so many times, Southampton must have been thinking of getting a restraining order. Suddenly, with 3 or 4 days only of the transfer window remaining, they found JKA.

[Irish Ian]

We are only fans.

We don't have the access to data and scouts and analysts that Orta does.

And that is where red flags should have been caused.

But even just a Google told us JKA had had plenty of discipline and fitness issues which had caused previous managers to criticise him publicly.

Those concerns were mentioned when he signed by some of us.

Can't blame fans for being excited given his pedigree and the fact we were desperate for a striker.

Orta is meant to go much deeper than that and than we could.

He decided to risk that much money on a player even Google told you was a massive risk.

JKA's issues were public knowledge, a DOF should weigh that up against the risk to the club.

And thus isn't the first time Orta choose to ignore well known issues

He was going to spend £20mil on Cuisance.

Or remember Jerry Mbakogu who Orta wanted to spend £4mil on only for him to be released months later.

JKA pulled his hamstring. Who knew that would happen?
Then Covid arrived and he 1. Was infected leading to long covid which led to him getting depression ( new country living in isolation etc etc etc dont underestimate how that could affect a young person in a new job, country etc. ) and 2 the then had something called Guillain-Barré syndrome.

No research could have unearthed that.

None.