Next Manager poll-

[Cjay]

But my point is he's more qualified than us .... a hell of a lot more... Scouting and recruitment he'd be aqauinted with vicariously or by osmosis to start with. Unless he hates football of course and he just goes to work to sort out sponsers and advertisers....

No evidence he is though.

We have no idea how deep his interest in football goes beyond it being part of his job to attend matches

There are footballers who openly admit they have no actual interest in football.

Kinnear's background is marketing, for Coca-Cola, for Procter and Gamble, for Arsenal, West Ham. He's only been in a position that requires even a vague interest in on field matters with us.

And even that is just because he is CEO.

He I'm sure has a vague understanding but that is reflected in this manager list, you could have put that list together.

When he interviews these managers and they present there ideas how is Kinnear meant to analyse them good and bad? When they are showing him graphs on this and stats on that how much of it will he truly understand?

I think his list of targets and the fact he is focusing on such a tiny pool of targets shows he doesn't have the experience to be doing what he is being asked to do

Not his fault but I think think DOF would have cast the net far wider and found much better potential targets.

Kinnear having more knowledge than a fan isn't the issue (not convinced he does) but there is a reason almost every club has DOF's and various other people analysing football managers and not the CEO.

Besides it's odd that it was apparently the 49ers who told Radz to go for the best biggest appointment they could.

Nobody on that list aside from maybe Rodgers ticks that box.

Do as I say not as I do

[Cjay]

Rodgers out of that lot. But Lucien Favre would also be a good shout. We need someone who isn't walking into the biggest job of their career. No surprises it took a manager like Bielsa to take us up. Hopefully the 49ers show more ambition than Radz.

Unless Phil is lying to us people like Favre aren't even being considered

They are solely focused on domestic targets for some strange reason.

Disappointing

[lufc1304]

I went Knutsen based on a couple of post Cjay did regarding him. I like his style, philosophy and I'm not put off by him having only managed in Scandinavia. Whether or not he's even being considered is another thing. Of the perhaps more likely targets, Rodgers, Potter or Farke. I also like the Favre suggestion, but most likely pie in the sky

[The Subhuman]

No evidence he is though.

We have no idea how deep his interest in football goes beyond it being part of his job to attend matches

There are footballers who openly admit they have no actual interest in football.

Kinnear's background is marketing, for Coca-Cola, for Procter and Gamble, for Arsenal, West Ham. He's only been in a position that requires even a vague interest in on field matters with us.

And even that is just because he is CEO.

He I'm sure has a vague understanding but that is reflected in this manager list, you could have put that list together.

When he interviews these managers and they present there ideas how is Kinnear meant to analyse them good and bad? When they are showing him graphs on this and stats on that how much of it will he truly understand?

I think his list of targets and the fact he is focusing on such a tiny pool of targets shows he doesn't have the experience to be doing what he is being asked to do

Not his fault but I think think DOF would have cast the net far wider and found much better potential targets.

Kinnear having more knowledge than a fan isn't the issue (not convinced he does) but there is a reason almost every club has DOF's and various other people analysing football managers and not the CEO.

Besides it's odd that it was apparently the 49ers who told Radz to go for the best biggest appointment they could.

Nobody on that list aside from maybe Rodgers ticks that box.

Do as I say not as I do

But as you draw conclusions reading between lines I can claim it’s likely he is a lot better in his football knowledge than the likes of you and I

Facts don’t play a big part on football forums

[Barlow Boy]

Farke me that puts Bielsa in good Kompany.

Nice

[Cjay]

But as you draw conclusions reading between lines I can claim it’s likely he is a lot better in his football knowledge than the likes of you and I

Facts don’t play a big part on football forums

There is more evidence of people like Kinnear being bad at making football decisions than good.

Ed Woodward was Chief Executive at Manure for 10 years after being an accountant, that went well.

[Cjay]

One concern with people like Farke and Corberan is the pressure for any manager for us next season will he immense.

Corberan had one comparative job, he flopped.

Farke at Norwich was managing a club on record for being pleased to be "one of the top 26 clubs in the country".

No pressure on him

His 1 job with more pressure and ambition, flopped.

Both managers rank as one of the worst in recent managers at there only job with any true pressure.

That concerns me

The pressure to get us promoted is unlike any other club really.

Even an expert like Warnock said as much.

None of the names mentioned have any track record of coping with that sort of scrutiny.

[The Subhuman]

There is more evidence of people like Kinnear being bad at making football decisions than good.

Ed Woodward was Chief Executive at Manure for 10 years after being an accountant, that went well.

That’s not evidence though

[Kennyb41]

Weasel, Bielsa instigated a fantastic style of football and made players better. I do question a few things but so be it. The question I have for you is “Why has no really big club ever considered Bielsa? They’ve preferred Ancellotti, Ranieri, Conte, Mourinho, et etc - never Bielsa??? Why? What do you and Kenny know that they don’t?

I have no answer for you.

It also baffles me.

[Cjay]

That’s not evidence though

Approving TC, Hecky, Allardyce, Gracia, Skubala, Marsch

They don't come without Kinnear approving them.

He's been involved in multiple failed appointments

[The Subhuman]

Approving TC, Hecky, Allardyce, Gracia, Skubala, Marsch

They don't come without Kinnear approving them.

He's been involved in multiple failed appointments

Actually they do come without Kinneaer approving them... he will have towed the party line on all the signings but unless you're saying he had more sway than Rads/Orta,

Heckingbotom was a success by the way, his work gave Marcelo the Great the platform he needed. Skubala was a stop gap, some would say TC did a good job. Alladyce was scraping the bottom of the pot and Gracia started we, probably would have kept us up but for whatever happened half time v Palace

So either way your argument doesn't hold much water

[weasel]

Weasel, Bielsa instigated a fantastic style of football and made players better. I do question a few things but so be it. The question I have for you is “Why has no really big club ever considered Bielsa? They’ve preferred Ancellotti, Ranieri, Conte, Mourinho, et etc - never Bielsa??? Why? What do you and Kenny know that they don’t?

My guess is because a lot of chairman would have ooked at him and thougt it was a huge risk. The reason I say this is due to his history. Did great at Newells but that wouldn't have been enough for a hug club to offer him the management job. He then had limited success everywhere and acquired a reputation for being difficult/exacting/awkward. So then I think chairman are always adopting the wait until he proves himself approach, i.e. let him win something elsewhere and then approach him rather than risk it yourself initially. Unfortunately due to him not having long spells in charge of clubs it then never gave him the chance to really win stuff, came close with Bilbao. There was a lot of speculation linking him with 'bigger' jobs when he was doing really well with us. However I never felt worried that he would simply leave to go to a 'bigger' club, I felt he had more honour about him and would prefer to carry on the work at Leeds than simply move to a 'big club.'

I also think he probably preferred working with lesser players who had the desire and were prepared to give their all. I don't think for example if he'd gone to PSG he'd have enjoyed 'working' with the likes of Neymar, he'd rather have a Bamford giving his all than a Neymar giving 20%.

You then look at thing slike Pep getting the job at Barcelone. He got the job in their youth academy due to him having been a player rather than because of any coaching credentials. He then did well there and given he was a club legend got the opportunity to manage. Pep fell extremely lucky because he had a core group of excellent players coming through that he had coached for the youth side. As such he could get rid of players he didn't want because he knew he had the quality of players to come in and play the way he damanded. If he'd gone into Barcelona at a different time he may well have not had the success and found a load of players that weren't going to do what he demanded of them. It may have been that he'd have been there a few months, hada player revolt and been sacked.

Similar scenario in how people like Lampard got the Chelsea job, twice, despite not achieving anything as a manager. Solsjkaaer at MU despite failing at Cardiff etc.

[Kennyb41]

I knew you'd go to greater better lengths than me.

Bert also wants control of everything, and rightly so, if i was an owner/Chairman i'd give him the keys to the city and just say 'crack on, if you have any problems at all just bell me and i'll put my foot down for you, in my eyes you are always 100% correct no matter what'

He saw Leeds as a great club to build up from virtually scratch, he was less than halfway through his fantastic project.

You see other huge clubs just don't find his like appealing.

More fool them.

And if for any reason he fails at Uruguay, i know exactly why it will be.

[Cjay]

Actually they do come without Kinneaer approving them... he will have towed the party line on all the signings but unless you're saying he had more sway than Rads/Orta,

Heckingbotom was a success by the way, his work gave Marcelo the Great the platform he needed. Skubala was a stop gap, some would say TC did a good job. Alladyce was scraping the bottom of the pot and Gracia started we, probably would have kept us up but for whatever happened half time v Palace

So either way your argument doesn't hold much water

Kinnear is the man in charge of LUFC day to day and technically Orta's boss.

He will have been involved In every appointment.

They all failed in there primary objective, therefore failed (especially Marsch and Hecky two of the worst managers in our history).

Skubala was never qualified to be our manager and Kinnear was part of the brains Trust who wanted to let him stay in charge all season (per Phil Hay).

Gracia was failing by the the like all the others.

Failed appointments and as Orta's boss and likely one of the peoples doing interviews with Orta (we know he interviewed Bielsa so likely did them all) he is responsible as well.

[weasel]

I knew you'd go to greater better lengths than me.

Bert also wants control of everything, and rightly so, if i was an owner/Chairman i'd give him the keys to the city and just say 'crack on, if you have any problems at all just bell me and i'll put my foot down for you, in my eyes you are always 100% correct no matter what'

He saw Leeds as a great club to build up from virtually scratch, he was less than halfway through his fantastic project.

You see other huge clubs just don't find his like appealing.

More fool them.

And if for any reason he fails at Uruguay, i know exactly why it will be.

I think it shows with how fondly he is remembered by the majority of fans from the clubs he has managed. You get the feeling the fans, well the ones with a bit of sense anyway, could see what he wanted to do and how he wanted to make their club the best thta it could be but that chairmen, DoFs etc didn't like the fact he was so popular and wanted to be in control of everything. Also I expect that at some clubs there may have been too many players that ddn't want to put the effort in and forced him out.

I think that is why he was with us for so long in comparison to his other clubs. He found a club where all the players, bar possibly PJ, bought into what he wanted to do and gave their all for him. He found, in the first 3 years, a club that was prepared to do what he requested of them (he didn't have lavish demands such as mega money signings but they allowed him to change the training facilities etc). Everything was rosy but then the board thought they were somehow better than him, that the success was because of them not him, that another manager could get just as much, if not more out of the players etc.

[weasel]

Kinnear is the man in charge of LUFC day to day and technically Orta's boss.

He will have been involved In every appointment.

They all failed in there primary objective, therefore failed (especially Marsch and Hecky two of the worst managers in our history).

Skubala was never qualified to be our manager and Kinnear was part of the brains Trust who wanted to let him stay in charge all season (per Phil Hay).

Gracia was failing by the the like all the others.

Failed appointments and as Orta's boss and likely one of the peoples doing interviews with Orta (we know he interviewed Bielsa so likely did them all) he is responsible as well.

Yes but I would imagine the loudest voice at those meetings would have been Orta and as he was the supposed expert they would have gone with his decision even if Kinnear had reservations.

From what we have learnt from Phil Hay too it seems like there were a few meetings where Orta and the rest of the board were in disagreement and ORta rather than convincing them simply went down the route of basically saying, "Agree with me or sack me."
I would imagine that what we have seen of Orta on the terraces is similar to how he would be in meetings, lot of shouting and trying to bully his point of view, "I'm the football expert," etc.

[Kennyb41]

I think it shows with how fondly he is remembered by the majority of fans from the clubs he has managed. You get the feeling the fans, well the ones with a bit of sense anyway, could see what he wanted to do and how he wanted to make their club the best thta it could be but that chairmen, DoFs etc didn't like the fact he was so popular and wanted to be in control of everything. Also I expect that at some clubs there may have been too many players that ddn't want to put the effort in and forced him out.

I think that is why he was with us for so long in comparison to his other clubs. He found a club where all the players, bar possibly PJ, bought into what he wanted to do and gave their all for him. He found, in the first 3 years, a club that was prepared to do what he requested of them (he didn't have lavish demands such as mega money signings but they allowed him to change the training facilities etc). Everything was rosy but then the board thought they were somehow better than him, that the success was because of them not him, that another manager could get just as much, if not more out of the players etc.

Couldn't have put it better, quite amazing how fans choose to be blind to ALL this, and if they're not 'choosing' to be blind, they are ignorant of it and blind to it.

Bert just doesn't suffer fools gladly, he is literally miles ahead of them all in FOOTballing knowledge and application, so why should he.

In my eyes it's also the reason he demanded 1 year terms, then they can easily part ways if the applecart is upturned, and that's both sides, so even in that he is an honourable person, making it easy for them to dismiss him without it breaking the bank at all.

[Cjay]

Yes but I would imagine the loudest voice at those meetings would have been Orta and as he was the supposed expert they would have gone with his decision even if Kinnear had reservations.

From what we have learnt from Phil Hay too it seems like there were a few meetings where Orta and the rest of the board were in disagreement and ORta rather than convincing them simply went down the route of basically saying, "Agree with me or sack me."
I would imagine that what we have seen of Orta on the terraces is similar to how he would be in meetings, lot of shouting and trying to bully his point of view, "I'm the football expert," etc.

Then he is a weak CEO letting an employee dictate to him and the board.

Regardless he gave those appointments his approval so is culpable and has shown 0 skills In being qualified to help the equally unqualified 49ers select a manager.

Look at the list of managers and the fact we seem to have totally ruled out non domestic appointments.

That's a ludicrous thing to do to limit yourself to such a small pool of candidates.

Anyone on this forum could have selected people like Farke and Corberan.

Are they the best candidates? Are we even considering most exciting people like Lucien Favre or Knutsen?

Or has Kinnear closed that off?

Refuse to believe that these are the best names we could hope for.

Just don't think we have the people in place to do a proper recruitment drive so are selecting the obvious

[DDB220]

Lot of supposition to fit respective narratives.

Faaip makes a big issue about facts and then draws his own conclusions.

People’s opposing views will always rely on possibilities and try to to make them fit their narrative.

Furry woodland creature and Crazy Horse are clearly big fans of Hans Christian Andersen.

To put it scientifically it is bollcoks. We are all guilty of it - some just believe their own bollcoks and will argue that theirs are the biggest.

About the nest manager -it is anyones guess. I bet neither Bielsa or Gracia made any of the lists before they were appointed.

Out of what is on offer here Rodger’s is the one with the pedigree in my bollcoks opinion.

[Jaydog]

Lot of supposition to fit respective narratives.

Faaip makes a big issue about facts and then draws his own conclusions.

People’s opposing views will always rely on possibilities and try to to make them fit their narrative.

Furry woodland creature and Crazy Horse are clearly big fans of Hans Christian Andersen.

To put it scientifically it is bollcoks. We are all guilty of it - some just believe their own bollcoks and will argue that theirs are the biggest.

About the nest manager -it is anyones guess. I bet neither Bielsa or Gracia made any of the lists before they were appointed.

Out of what is on offer here Rodger’s is the one with the pedigree in my bollcoks opinion.

Absolute load of bollocks