Leeds U18s/U21s

[1964white]

3-0

[Lumiukko]

Scoreline looks poor, but how was the balance of the game? Anyone see it? Did we look threatening in attack and just have our usual kamikaze defence back? Perkins is mentioned as a player who is close to first team bench..

[Cjay]

3-0

Our u21s aren't as good as some think.

The vast majority won't make it at Premier League level, that includes Summerville, Greenwood, Gelhardt and Co.

The idea we will get 7 or 8 Premier League players from this crop is ludicrous.

Simply doesn't happen.

You are lucky if you get 2 or 3 (which is exactly how many we got from our 97 youth cup team

[1964white]

Our u21s aren't as good as some think.

The vast majority won't make it at Premier League level, that includes Summerville, Greenwood, Gelhardt and Co.

The idea we will get 7 or 8 Premier League players from this crop is ludicrous.

Simply doesn't happen.

You are lucky if you get 2 or 3 (which is exactly how many we got from our 97 youth cup team

Have to agree with you, Cjay

[weasel]

Our u21s aren't as good as some think.

The vast majority won't make it at Premier League level, that includes Summerville, Greenwood, Gelhardt and Co.

The idea we will get 7 or 8 Premier League players from this crop is ludicrous.

Simply doesn't happen.

You are lucky if you get 2 or 3 (which is exactly how many we got from our 97 youth cup team

Has anyone ever suggested we would get 7 or 8? Fergie's w*nkers of 92 didn't get 7 or 8 first team regulars, similarly O'Leary got Harte, Kewell, Smith, Robinson and Woodgate as first team regulars (although think Kewell was probably a bit advanced as think he played a bit under GG). If we get 3 or 4 that make it then that is a very good return, hopefully some of the others will at least be decent enough for us to recoup fees to offset the money spent on those that don't make it.

[BlackHillsPaul]

4-3-3 I think, Paul

Thank you 64. For some reason I was having a difficult time picking up on the shape and tactics today.

[The Subhuman]

Ahh we lost one, we always seem to do that when we make a lot of changes. No biggie

[andrewjohnsmith]

Our u21s aren't as good as some think.

The vast majority won't make it at Premier League level, that includes Summerville, Greenwood, Gelhardt and Co.

The idea we will get 7 or 8 Premier League players from this crop is ludicrous.

Simply doesn't happen.

You are lucky if you get 2 or 3 (which is exactly how many we got from our 97 youth cup team

Seems a bit of a harsh reaction to today's performance. Our defence was missing even a couple of regular under 23's. With a premier league game in 2 days, we held back 3 or 4 decent young players that could have played tonight. And we were playing against a team of seniors that really wants to do something in the competition.

As suggested above, nobody is advocating 7 or 8 to make it at premier league level. Gyabi and Perkins certainly looked capable. Had it not been for Thursday, Summerville, Gnonto, Gelhardt, and Greenwood would have supplemented this line up. And Hjelde, Mullen, Carole, Sutcliffe, and Gray were all missing through injury.

[Chilli D]

Our u21s aren't as good as some think.

The vast majority won't make it at Premier League level, that includes Summerville, Greenwood, Gelhardt and Co.

The idea we will get 7 or 8 Premier League players from this crop is ludicrous.

Simply doesn't happen.

You are lucky if you get 2 or 3 (which is exactly how many we got from our 97 youth cup team

A well over the top reaction.
A very young side being put out last night.

[1964white]

Ahh we lost one, we always seem to do that when we make a lot of changes. No biggie

Definitely one of our weaker line-ups due to more important matters on Thursday & Sunday.

I thought Firpo would get a fitness run-out bearing in mind lack of game time.

[1964white]

I understand Cjay's point.

Pascal the only one out of our academy to cement a first-team place in the last five seasons.

[The Subhuman]

It's about opportunity, Pascal getting in due to the centre back injury crisis last season and Firpo's this.. Meslier is another who's cemented... He got lucky real quick as the fact is he arrived to play for our 23's and maybe back up Casilla for a season or three.

[Chilli D]

I understand Cjay's point.

Pascal the only one out of our academy to cement a first-team place in the last five seasons.

And how many of Man City's famous academy have progressed to regular PL football?
Currently only Phil Foden considered good enough for their team.
Being an academy player guarantees nothing but it's up to the academy staff to work with them to see if they make the grade.
In my eyes, Gelhardt and Cresswell currently have the best chance of the older ones but I have a feeling that Perkins and Gray will also make the grade.

[Cjay]

And how many of Man City's famous academy have progressed to regular PL football?
Currently only Phil Foden considered good enough for their team.
Being an academy player guarantees nothing but it's up to the academy staff to work with them to see if they make the grade.
In my eyes, Gelhardt and Cresswell currently have the best chance of the older ones but I have a feeling that Perkins and Gray will also make the grade.

That's my point though as Leon said.

We hope and the club hopes this talented youngster policy will save them money on signing first team players.

But if you go through the league the amount of academy graduates in each team is rarely ever more than 1.

Even Man City and Chelsea who have spent £10s of millions scooping up the best prospects, 1 maybe 2 break through every 5 years if your lucky.

Villa have Jacob Ramsey.

Arsenal are doing bit better tbf but still on Really Saka and Nketiah a bit

Everton have Anthony Gordon and he is the first since Barkley a decade ago.

Up until Mount and James it was over a decade for Chelsea since Terry.

Manure have Rashford and formerly Greenwood.

Even Liverpool have had just TAA.

Southampton have had James Ward Prowse.

Our board/club are hoping Summerville, Gelhardt, Gyabi, Hjelde, Cresswell, Sutcliffe, Gray, Joseph, Perkins all come through.

But chances are 1 maybe 2 if we are lucky will actually make the grade over the next 5-10years.

The rest won't.

The idea we will have a stream of 5-10 breaking through and making it and supplementing our first team over the next decade is fantasy.

Doesn't happen.

Wasn't criticising the kids, was the policy.

We've seen it already.

Gotts, Shacks, McCalmont, McCarron, Halme, Dalby, Edmondson, Rey, Hossanah, Stevens, Temenuzhkov, many more who we thought were on the cusp of a breakthrough.

All now playing lower league football.

[1964white]

In my eyes, Gelhardt and Cresswell currently have the best chance of the older ones but I have a feeling that Perkins and Gray will also make the grade.

They are the likely ones, Chilli

Hope at least a couple of them make it big.

[Chilli D]

That's my point though as Leon said.

We hope and the club hopes this talented youngster policy will save them money on signing first team players.

But if you go through the league the amount of academy graduates in each team is rarely ever more than 1.

Even Man City and Chelsea who have spent £10s of millions scooping up the best prospects, 1 maybe 2 break through every 5 years if your lucky.

Villa have Jacob Ramsey.

Arsenal are doing bit better tbf but still on Really Saka and Nketiah a bit

Everton have Anthony Gordon and he is the first since Barkley a decade ago.

Up until Mount and James it was over a decade for Chelsea since Terry.

Manure have Rashford and formerly Greenwood.

Even Liverpool have had just TAA.

Southampton have had James Ward Prowse.

Our board/club are hoping Summerville, Gelhardt, Gyabi, Hjelde, Cresswell, Sutcliffe, Gray, Joseph, Perkins all come through.

But chances are 1 maybe 2 if we are lucky will actually make the grade over the next 5-10years.

The rest won't.

The idea we will have a stream of 5-10 breaking through and making it and supplementing our first team over the next decade is fantasy.

Doesn't happen.

Wasn't criticising the kids, was the policy.

We've seen it already.

Gotts, Shacks, McCalmont, McCarron, Halme, Dalby, Edmondson, Rey, Hossanah, Stevens, Temenuzhkov, many more who we thought were on the cusp of a breakthrough.

All now playing lower league football.

You were making a statement based on last night's result of which the players you mentioned didn't even play. When they did, we stuck 5 past Tranmere.

As for Liverpool - Harvey Elliott, Curtis Jones?

[Cjay]

You were making a statement based on last night's result of which the players you mentioned didn't even play. When they did, we stuck 5 past Tranmere.

As for Liverpool - Harvey Elliott, Curtis Jones?

And conceded 3 vs there reserves, League 2 team rested loads of players.

It wasn't just an observation on last night tbf, was a general comment all be it responding to last night.

Harvey Elliot was a first teamer at Fulham, wasn't signed for there youth team in the first place, trained with the first team since day 1 (all be it did do some u23s stuff).

Comparable I suppose to Gelhardt for us.

Curtis Jones is another, so that is TAA and Jones since Steven Gerrard.

There simply isn't a team inthe league that has had the amount of breakthroughs from youth players we want.

Even bloody La Masia hasn't.

[andrewjohnsmith]

That's my point though as Leon said.

We hope and the club hopes this talented youngster policy will save them money on signing first team players.

But if you go through the league the amount of academy graduates in each team is rarely ever more than 1.

Even Man City and Chelsea who have spent £10s of millions scooping up the best prospects, 1 maybe 2 break through every 5 years if your lucky.

Villa have Jacob Ramsey.

Arsenal are doing bit better tbf but still on Really Saka and Nketiah a bit

Everton have Anthony Gordon and he is the first since Barkley a decade ago.

Up until Mount and James it was over a decade for Chelsea since Terry.

Manure have Rashford and formerly Greenwood.

Even Liverpool have had just TAA.

Southampton have had James Ward Prowse.

Our board/club are hoping Summerville, Gelhardt, Gyabi, Hjelde, Cresswell, Sutcliffe, Gray, Joseph, Perkins all come through.

But chances are 1 maybe 2 if we are lucky will actually make the grade over the next 5-10years.

The rest won't.

The idea we will have a stream of 5-10 breaking through and making it and supplementing our first team over the next decade is fantasy.

Doesn't happen.

Wasn't criticising the kids, was the policy.

We've seen it already.

Gotts, Shacks, McCalmont, McCarron, Halme, Dalby, Edmondson, Rey, Hossanah, Stevens, Temenuzhkov, many more who we thought were on the cusp of a breakthrough.

All now playing lower league football.

This post is not really representative of other clubs and their youth policies.

I can't put as much in depth research into my posts as you do.

But ... How much money did Man City collect from youth players this summer? Bazunu, Lavia, Larios, Edozie all playing first team football at Southampton.

You missed Christiansen at Chelsea signed as a 15 year old - like many of our own young players.

I don't have time to go through every club but there are many signed as youth players who progress to premier league football.

[weasel]

Up until Mount and James it was over a decade for Chelsea since Terry.

I see us as trying to emulate Chelsea. In their first team squad: Mason Mount, Conor Gallacher, Armando Broja , Trevor Chalobah, Ruben Loftus Cheek and Reece James, they have had Tammy Abraham and Fikayo Tomori having moved to Italy and doing really well, Billy Gilmour and Tariq Lamptey playing for Brighton. Additonally the likes of DeBruyne, Lukaku and Salah bought in as advanced youngsters but sold before they made a real impact.

That for me is what I se us as trying to do, singing promising youngsters (like Chelsea did with Salah and DeBruyne) having some players make it to our first team and others that aren't good enough for us but hopefully good enough to be sold to bring some money back into the club.

[Cjay]

This post is not really representative of other clubs and their youth policies.

I can't put as much in depth research into my posts as you do.

But ... How much money did Man City collect from youth players this summer? Bazunu, Lavia, Larios, Edozie all playing first team football at Southampton.

You missed Christiansen at Chelsea signed as a 15 year old - like many of our own young players.

I don't have time to go through every club but there are many signed as youth players who progress to premier league football.

I missed quite a few from Chelsea tbf as I realised after and Weasel pointed out

But it was still a significant gap from John Terry to that crop.

There wasn't really anyone in between and Chelsea are well known for hoovering up literally hundreds of prospects.

So ratio wise it's still probably a 1 in 10 success rate at best.

Similar to City, its still going to be a very low rate and the difference is those 2 teams have invested more in there academy than we have in our club over the last 10-20 years.

Abramovich and Mansour have invested unbelievable amounts to source the best prospects from everywhere.

Mansour invested over £100mil just in youth facilities for example, it's a different level.

And even then there success to failure ratio will be high.

Compare us to more evenly matched clubs and the amount of youth teamers is very very low ratio wise.

That was all I was saying.