Would relegation be so bad? Get use to it folks.

[Mountain]

...as I get older, I think about things differently. And one of those things is football. When I was young, Leeds or Ireland, winning was all that matters, playing in the World Cup, challenging for league titles, cup runs etc. How we got there, kick and rush, break the transfer record, it didn't matter.

But times change, the Irish team is light years away from what it was 30 years ago, but they are trying to play football and I like that. And I see Leeds fans calling for someone like Dyche just 6 months after Bielsa left, because it's all about survival, and I really don't like that. And I wonder, is playing in the PL really all that important? Would standing by Bielsa, even if it meant relegation, have been so wrong? Why? Would we now be playing better football, winning matches in a division where the 2nd best team has lost 7 out of 16 matches, and the 3rd placed team has only won 6 of 15? Ultimately, is the biggest difference between the PL and the Championship really just the value of the owner's asset and is the fixation on staying up, as opposed to doing things the right way and playing attractive football, all a little misplaced?

[Kennyb41]

Would relegation be bad ?

1. Absolutely disastrous with this current crop and ANY other manager in the world but Bert.

2. No it wouldn't with Bert at the helm, it could actually be beneficial.

[WestgateRun]

Relegation would be a disaster.
We spent 16 years trying to get back to the top league. We have to stick in there.
I would settle for 17th place once again, right now.

[SG90]

It would be a disaster. Another 10+ years in the wilderness, any decent player sold on the cheap, huge losses every year, decrepit stadium etc. Not to mention we'd lose Archie Gray and probably Harry Gray to go with it.

Let's not lie that the standard would be better too, because the Championship is dire for the most part.

I'd much rather finish 17th every season, the problem is I doubt we will until we get some investment.

[WhiteRose]

The championship is still a good league it’s just got this dreary air about it. it would be good to be winning more often than not again though, prob in the prem is you will rarely win even a third of your matches if your lucky.

From a club perspective, we don’t do things by halves so would expect to have a fire sale on relegation and be down there for 2-5 years by which time swathes of elland road are bound to be condemned and we are left with another 10 a penny chancer as owner with no funds.

[SG90]

The championship is still a good league it’s just got this dreary air about it. it would be good to be winning more often than not again though, prob in the prem is you will rarely win even a third of your matches if your lucky.

From a club perspective, we don’t do things by halves so would expect to have a fire sale on relegation and be down there for 2-5 years by which time swathes of elland road are bound to be condemned and we are left with another 10 a penny chancer as owner with no funds.

Yep, cue Mike Ashley to step in and save the day!

[Mountain]

It would be a disaster. Another 10+ years in the wilderness, any decent player sold on the cheap, huge losses every year, decrepit stadium etc. Not to mention we'd lose Archie Gray and probably Harry Gray to go with it.

But, to an extent, what does any of that matter? Like, is bumping along in 16th, hoping to win against Wolves every now and again, not pretty much a football wilderness? Does it affect you or me if a player is valued at 3k or 30 mill or what profit is made by the owner? And frankly I don't see shiny new stadiums as a good thing.

[SG90]

But, to an extent, what does any of that matter? Like, is bumping along in 16th, hoping to win against Wolves every now and again, not pretty much a football wilderness? Does it affect you or me if a player is valued at 3k or 30 mill or what profit is made by the owner? And frankly I don't see shiny new stadiums as a good thing.

And finishing midtable in the Championship and seeing Norwich vulturing our talent on the cheap is any better? Too many of our fans get misty eyed over the Championship, when it's a horrible slog. Even when we won the league, we weren't promoted until game 44 and had a load of dour matches.

[Irish Ian]

But, to an extent, what does any of that matter? Like, is bumping along in 16th, hoping to win against Wolves every now and again, not pretty much a football wilderness? Does it affect you or me if a player is valued at 3k or 30 mill or what profit is made by the owner? And frankly I don't see shiny new stadiums as a good thing.

We would just be replacing one kind of anxiety for another.
Every game becomes must win for different reasons. The pressure to stay at or near the top of the table.

But the Prem isnt fun at all.

[SG90]

We would just be replacing one kind of anxiety for another.
Every game becomes must win for different reasons. The pressure to stay at or near the top of the table.

But the Prem isnt fun at all.

It could be if we had owners with more ambition.

[Mountain]

We would just be replacing one kind of anxiety for another.
Every game becomes must win for different reasons. The pressure to stay at or near the top of the table.

But is "must win" really the right way to look at football at all? Months ago, after Bielsa was sacked, I compared it all to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest...

...it was about a psychiatric hospital where everyone was institutionalised , there was a routine maintained by fear. And RP McMurphy wanders in, brilliant, defiant, a nonconformist. And he tears up the rule book and frees everyone from the shackles of conformity. He shows them there is so much more to life, they are not helpless, they have aspirations and potential. And he can escape, he has options, but he chooses to stay to benefit others. But obviously in the end while some like Chief are transformed, it's just too much for others to handle. The free spirited individual is crushed, the figurehead and leader is sacrificed, and order is restored.

When I see events in recent days, see those in charge react with fear, fear of seeing their asset devalued, sacrificing the nonconformist, the return of the orthodoxy and grim stock phrases like "its a results business"...I feel the same disappointment I felt at the end of that film.

[Cjay]

Said before I'd rather be a Promotion chaser in the Championship than cannon fodder in the Premier League.

Unless our ambition was to be top 4 eventually and pushing top 7 by season 3 (this season) then for me it wasn't worth it

I realise it isn't that easy but for me aiming to survive every season isn't fun, it's crap, it's not an achievement and nothing to be proud of.

If your aim isn't to be one of the best then you are wasting your time.

This is crap, dull,boring, repetitive, frustrating, and not entertaining which is after all all LUFC should be for us.

Blah

[SG90]

Said before I'd rather be a Promotion chaser in the Championship than cannon fodder in the Premier League.

Unless our ambition was to be top 4 eventually and pushing top 7 by season 3 (this season) then for me it wasn't worth it

I realise it isn't that easy but for me aiming to survive every season isn't fun, it's crap, it's not an achievement and nothing to be proud of.

If your aim isn't to be one of the best then you are wasting your time.

This is crap, dull,boring, repetitive, frustrating, and not entertaining which is after all all LUFC should be for us.

Blah

What if we end up like West Brom though? You're only one bad appointment from being stuck forever. Look at Boro for example. Monk wasted the parachute payments on dross and now they're stuck in a relegation battle, and Gibson is no longer allowed to pump funds in thanks to ffp.

Also wtf wants to be sky's cash cow again?

[Irish Ian]

It could be if we had owners with more ambition.

Like Forest?

As per usual every thread on MOT is just a platform to bang the same old drum.

Owners this owners that

[SG90]

Like Forest?

As per usual every thread on MOT is just a platform to bang the same old drum.

Owners this owners that

Forest was madness not ambition. Probably because the ownership is the biggest issue at the club!

If we had owners willing to put in £50m for say 3 seasons, that would keep us up and allow us to progress. From then on, I think we can run ourselves with 7 years of TV money, sponsorships, commercial etc.

The issue for me is what do we have to show for being in the PL? We still have no money, we don't own our stadium, we don't own our training ground etc.

[Kennyb41]

Said before I'd rather be a Promotion chaser in the Championship than cannon fodder in the Premier League.

Unless our ambition was to be top 4 eventually and pushing top 7 by season 3 (this season) then for me it wasn't worth it

I realise it isn't that easy but for me aiming to survive every season isn't fun, it's crap, it's not an achievement and nothing to be proud of.

If your aim isn't to be one of the best then you are wasting your time.

This is crap, dull,boring, repetitive, frustrating, and not entertaining which is after all all LUFC should be for us.

Blah

Everything Bert wasn't.

[Irish Ian]

Forest was madness not ambition. Probably because the ownership is the biggest issue at the club!

If we had owners willing to put in £50m for say 3 seasons, that would keep us up and allow us to progress. From then on, I think we can run ourselves with 7 years of TV money, sponsorships, commercial etc.

The issue for me is what do we have to show for being in the PL? We still have no money, we don't own our stadium, we don't own our training ground etc.

Who is the 'we' who dont own the stadium?

Radz owns the business who owns the stadium the same way as he owns a business that owns Leeds Utd. ( or a big chunk)

Also I think you have forgotten how much of his own dosh he used to run us pre Prem.


Bielsa first season we lost £20M

Forests ambition has only proved to be madness now. Go back to the summer and it wasnt described that way.

[Jimang]

It would be a pointless exercise in my view, because as has been mentioned, all the best players would leave. Then we would try and cobble together a winning team from whatever youngsters were left and the players no one else wants. Then if eventually we can grow a team good enough to get us promoted, any star players would be targeted by the big clubs and our main priority would be to stay in the Premiership. That's where we are now.

[SG90]

Who is the 'we' who dont own the stadium?

Radz owns the business who owns the stadium the same way as he owns a business that owns Leeds Utd. ( or a big chunk)

Also I think you have forgotten how much of his own dosh he used to run us pre Prem.


Bielsa first season we lost £20M

Forests ambition has only proved to be madness now. Go back to the summer and it wasnt described that way.

The club doesn't own the stadium, he does. We have to pay rent to use our own stadium. I thought going up meant we'd buy it back. The club loses out on a lot of income from renting.

We lost £20m because Radz handed out to contract increases after we finished 7th. He's always overpaid the players, that's where the majority of the money has gone. He said he was told Championship players need to be on over £20k a week. Not sure who told him that, Orta or Kinnear, but it was poor advice. We were run at a profit the season before when we finished 7th.

The accounts showed we received £50m between 2016-2021 from owner, which includes the purchase of the club. £50m over 5 years is nothing in the Championship, it's a lot lot more smaller in the PL. I'm sorry but £50m over 5 years is nothing compared to the £400m he stands to make, a lot more when including rent on ER and all the hospitality and non football events he makes from too.

I said Forest were signing too many players and ignoring the ones who got them up, that's turned out to be the case. The last two sides to do that were Villa (finished 17th thanks to a technical fault) and Fulham (relegated).

[Irish Ian]

The club doesn't own the stadium, he does. We have to pay rent to use our own stadium. I thought going up meant we'd buy it back. The club loses out on a lot of income from renting.

We lost £20m because Radz handed out to contract increases after we finished 7th. He's always overpaid the players, that's where the majority of the money has gone. He said he was told Championship players need to be on over £20k a week. Not sure who told him that, Orta or Kinnear, but it was poor advice. We were run at a profit the season before when we finished 7th.

The accounts showed we received £50m between 2016-2021 from owner, which includes the purchase of the club. £50m over 5 years is nothing in the Championship, it's a lot lot more smaller in the PL. I'm sorry but £50m over 5 years is nothing compared to the £400m he stands to make, a lot more when including rent on ER and all the hospitality and non football events he makes from too.

I said Forest were signing too many players and ignoring the ones who got them up, that's turned out to be the case. The last two sides to do that were Villa (finished 17th thanks to a technical fault) and Fulham (relegated).

Radz owns the club. Radz owns the stadium.
You say he charges himself rent?