Liverpool 1-2 Leeds Utd Match Thread - Post Match Debate.

[DDB220]

I agree we are better with Cooper in the team, but the alternative (Llorente) is not good, there are always potential errors in his game (three daft errors yesterday), Koch is far more efficient.

We need to evolve, not stand still as we have done with the spine of our team for far too long.

We should be looking forward, not backwards.

I do not see replacing Cooper or Llorente as a priority. We have Cresswell emerging and Leo. Defensively we are in far better shape than other other areas. LB is an issue but not so much if we can keep Struijk fit and Dallas makes a return. That is not to say I am not in favour of getting a proper LB in.
Midfield under JM’s system is fraught with potential hazard if we had both Adams and Roca unavailable. In terms of replacements we have Klich and Foreshaw and Gyabi.
Gyabi is the most talented but inexperienced. This is the horizon aspect of our recruitment policy.

The same applies to our attack. I think we will only buy in the next transfer window if one of the targets becomes available. There are rumours PSV have financial issues so I would not be surprised if Orta makes another trip, regardless of which way the wind is blowing.

[DDB220]

When the stress of game day is over and reflection is more considered I do often think that JM is doing a better job than most fans would agree with. He is spinning plates. He has inherited a squad that if he had a wand he would probably replace the vast majority of in an instant. Not only is he seemingly keeping what he has happy but he imposing his philosophy ( whether it is truly flawed will be determined in how long he stays with the club )

He hasn’t marginalised any of the senior players as he is aware that we are so thin on the ground he may have to use everyone at some point. He clearly has excellent man management skills. I think yesterdays reaction by the players took many by surprise, myself included. The dressing room unity he often alludes to in interview cannot be understated. I thought this was just sound bites but based on yesterday I feel obligated to give him the credit he deserves.

If decided to go with Joffy and marginalised Bamford and Rodrigo we would be completely in the s**t if then Joffy became injured. It is easy from the comfort of one’s armchair to make calls with no consequence. I am as guilty as anyone else. But this is the privilege of being a fan. I won’t lose my job by stating what he should be doing even when I am a million miles away from making the right call.

[Boo Radley]

Cooper's needless header past Messlier in the first couple of minutes reminded me so much of the play-off goals we conceded against Derby when Cooper needlessly f*cked up a clearance that was going straight to Casillas. Similar yesterday the ball was comfortably going to Messlier to clear. Thakfully we got away with it this time and then Liverpool returned the favour by gifting us our first goal. Can't even blame it on a communication error between Cooper and Messlier as there was no crowd noise to drown out either of them shouting.

I said that to the lads I was watching the game with - exact same as that Derby game. Has to be said he had a bit of a mare last evening.

[Boo Radley]

Anyone else see the turn of speed on Gnonto when he made a run for a ball to be played through to him but it wasn't.

Certainly did Kenny. I was really impressed with him. He is strong and calm on the ball and clever in what he does with it.
Was wondering if others saw his defensive header from the edge of our box from a standing position with the ball more or less dropping straight down on top of him after a deflected shot? He headed out it over the sideline, which was the right option but needed some power from the position he was in.

Really think he will get more time now, on the wing, where he will pose a challenge for most defences.

[Boo Radley]

It means we won't be any better off points wise but we will have given an advantage to one of our nearest rivals... depending on their other results of course. We best Chelsea, narrowly lost to arsenal but it's the results against those around you that matter most ...the 6 pointers.

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

Totally agree BG, it’s great to get points from wherever you can get them, but it also matters that you stop opponents run of points as well. If we hadn’t taken the points we did off Burnley last season they would have finished above us.

[weasel]

I do not see replacing Cooper or Llorente as a priority. We have Cresswell emerging and Leo. Defensively we are in far better shape than other other areas. LB is an issue but not so much if we can keep Struijk fit and Dallas makes a return. That is not to say I am not in favour of getting a proper LB in.
Midfield under JM’s system is fraught with potential hazard if we had both Adams and Roca unavailable. In terms of replacements we have Klich and Foreshaw and Gyabi.
Gyabi is the most talented but inexperienced. This is the horizon aspect of our recruitment policy.

The same applies to our attack. I think we will only buy in the next transfer window if one of the targets becomes available. There are rumours PSV have financial issues so I would not be surprised if Orta makes another trip, regardless of which way the wind is blowing.

Would be good to get to a position of relative safety so we hopefully start to see more of the young guys

[weasel]

Certainly did Kenny. I was really impressed with him. He is strong and calm on the ball and clever in what he does with it.
Was wondering if others saw his defensive header from the edge of our box from a standing position with the ball more or less dropping straight down on top of him after a deflected shot? He headed out it over the sideline, which was the right option but needed some power from the position he was in.

Really think he will get more time now, on the wing, where he will pose a challenge for most defences.

I did see that header and was delighted to see him get it so far away from our area. Too often players head it away but straight to an opposition player. Like I mentioned in an earlier post I think he has an excellent footballing brain.

For me he is the sort of player that we should be looking to bring on around the 60-70 minute mark of every game regardless of the score, if we're in front it gives us the great chance of a breakaway and if we are behind his pace can unsettle even a parked bus defence.

Another good example of his footballing brain was when Allison had the ball and rather than go towards Allison to challenge him he ran back to get into position to make us more solid - possibly going aginst the 'high press' tactic but was the most sensible option.

[BGwhite]

Totally agree BG, it’s great to get points from wherever you can get them, but it also matters that you stop opponents run of points as well. If we hadn’t taken the points we did off Burnley last season they would have finished above us.

Absolutely in a nut shell.

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

[andrewjohnsmith]

Cooper's needless header past Messlier in the first couple of minutes reminded me so much of the play-off goals we conceded against Derby when Cooper needlessly f*cked up a clearance that was going straight to Casillas. Similar yesterday the ball was comfortably going to Messlier to clear. Thakfully we got away with it this time and then Liverpool returned the favour by gifting us our first goal. Can't even blame it on a communication error between Cooper and Messlier as there was no crowd noise to drown out either of them shouting.

I watched that a couple of times. The commentators said Meslier needed to give a loud shout. For me Cooper had to make the header. If he'd let Meslier make the header, it would have been headed into midfield. It could have landed anywhere and by that point it was an open goal - Meslier would have been 35 yards from goal. Cooper was making a safer option heading into open space.

What happened after was the calamity. Cooper was so slow to get to the loose ball and Salah ran past him like he was standing still. I know Salah would whip Cooper in a sprint. But Cooper is not that slow that Salah can run 30 yards in the time Cooper can run 15. It was just a really slow response after he'd headed the ball away.

[Cjay]

Anyone else notice the similarities between Liverpool and us and the clear Rangnick influence?

Found that quite Interesting.

Obviously the pressing but also the focus on vertical passing lines and the full backs generally supplying the width as the attackers drift inside.

The attackers start wider in Klopp's system but generally end up central.

Interesting I felt (and I know Liverpool are in a mess) but tactically and style wise it gave hope that with tweaks this style could work imo.

[SG90]

Anyone else notice the similarities between Liverpool and us and the clear Rangnick influence?

Found that quite Interesting.

Obviously the pressing but also the focus on vertical passing lines and the full backs generally supplying the width as the attackers drift inside.

The attackers start wider in Klopp's system but generally end up central.

Interesting I felt (and I know Liverpool are in a mess) but tactically and style wise it gave hope that with tweaks this style could work imo.

I thought they were very one dimensional yesterday. You knew it'd be a long ball out wide to to TAA or Robertson. With the form Rasmus was in, it made it easy to defend against.

[Cjay]

I thought they were very one dimensional yesterday. You knew it'd be a long ball out wide to to TAA or Robertson. With the form Rasmus was in, it made it easy to defend against.

They tried to play to fast and to vertical I felt (something we have done often).

It's a byproduct of the Rangnick influence.

[Byebyegeegee]

Absolutely in a nut shell.

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

Not in my book, if we’re taking points off the top clubs and they’re taking points off the bottom clubs (if they weren’t then they wouldn’t be the top clubs) then what’s the difference. If you win say 8 games and get half a dozen draws then you are virtually safe, you can still afford to lose a couple of dozen times, it doesn’t matter a jot who you take the points off or who you lose points to, so long as you get the requisite number, say 38 - 40.

[Boo Radley]

I do not see replacing Cooper or Llorente as a priority. We have Cresswell emerging and Leo. Defensively we are in far better shape than other other areas. LB is an issue but not so much if we can keep Struijk fit and Dallas makes a return. That is not to say I am not in favour of getting a proper LB in.

Solving the LB is key to stabilising the whole team. Struijk could move back into CB with Koch and we would be immediately better off than we are now. However, one suspension or injury puts us back on thin ice.

Also, even with Struijk at CB, we still don’t have enough aerial presence in defence, or in our set pieces in attack. We also lack menace in our back line, Struijk and Koch are “nice players” not likely to go through anyone no matter what the need. We need some of that in our defence.

That is why we still need a CB, along with all the others we all know we need.

[Boo Radley]

Not in my book, if we’re taking points off the top clubs and they’re taking points off the bottom clubs (if they weren’t then they wouldn’t be the top clubs) then what’s the difference. If you win say 8 games and get half a dozen draws then you are virtually safe, you can still afford to lose a couple of dozen times, it doesn’t matter a jot who you take the points off or who you lose points to, so long as you get the requisite number, say 38 - 40.

Considering you may have teams surviving on 36 points, and the probability of at least 6 teams in any relegation struggle, if you are one of these teams and you beat what’s around you are well on your way to surviving with 30 points, without having to win against teams in better form.

Each of the other teams now have 6 points less to take them to the safe zone. Instead they now have to get those points off teams that are, by definition, performing better. The 6 pointer concept is based in fact, and out of bitter experience.

[The Subhuman]

I agree we are better with Cooper in the team, but the alternative (Llorente) is not good, there are always potential errors in his game (three daft errors yesterday), Koch is far more efficient.

We need to evolve, not stand still as we have done with the spine of our team for far too long.

We should be looking forward, not backwards.

Spine of our team is

Meslier
Koch
Cooper
Adams
Roca
Aaronson
rodrigo

of these only really Cooper was a consistent starter as part of the spine... But for sure there's three new names...

[The Subhuman]

Solving the LB is key to stabilising the whole team. Struijk could move back into CB with Koch and we would be immediately better off than we are now. However, one suspension or injury puts us back on thin ice.

Also, even with Struijk at CB, we still don’t have enough aerial presence in defence, or in our set pieces in attack. We also lack menace in our back line, Struijk and Koch are “nice players” not likely to go through anyone no matter what the need. We need some of that in our defence.

That is why we still need a CB, along with all the others we all know we need.

Going through players is a sending off offence I'd have thought, on top of giving away FK's and Pens ....

[Boo Radley]

Going through players is a sending off offence I'd have thought, on top of giving away FK's and Pens ....

Technically correct! It’s no harm for some opponents to believe that possibility may actually be a CB’s locker! That is usually enough to give players pause for thought.

The fact is that we aren’t physically dominant in our defence, and that’s a weakness.

[Byebyegeegee]

Considering you may have teams surviving on 36 points, and the probability of at least 6 teams in any relegation struggle, if you are one of these teams and you beat what’s around you are well on your way to surviving with 30 points, without having to win against teams in better form.

Each of the other teams now have 6 points less to take them to the safe zone. Instead they now have to get those points off teams that are, by definition, performing better. The 6 pointer concept is based in fact, and out of bitter experience.

Hi Boo, not particularly wishing to extend a futile debate but, (I will do anyway ), for example, we have beaten Chelsea 3-0 at home and Liverpool 2-1 away so far this season, so any of the clubs around us in the league that Chelsea beat away from home or Liverpool beat at home effectively gives a 6 point swing in our favour. against those clubs, just the same as it would if we win against them directly.

As I say pointless but after our great win yesterday I feel in a playful mood.

[1964white]

Spine of our team is

Meslier
Koch
Cooper
Adams
Roca
Aaronson
rodrigo

of these only really Cooper was a consistent starter as part of the spine... But for sure there's three new names...

Much better this season with the signings of Adams, Roca & Aaronson.

Still one weakness in the middle of our defence. Even though Rodrigo is our top goalscorer with six goals (also in my fantasy league team) I'm still not entirely convinced with him.