Germany Robin Koch (2020-2024)

Germany Robin Koch (2020-2024)

Position: Defender | DOB: 17/07/1996 | Apps: 77 | Goals: 0
Debut: 12/09/2020 - Liverpool (A)
Pos: Defender | DOB: 17/07/1996
Apps: 77 | Goals: 0
Debut: 12/09/2020 - Liverpool (A)

Spells
Signed From Type Joined Left For Left
Freiburg Permanent Aug 2020 Eintracht Frankfurt May 2024


Player Record Apps Start (Sub) Unused Sub Goals
League 73 66 (7) 4 0
FA Cup 3 3 (0) 0 0
League Cup 1 0 (1) 0 0
TOTAL 77 69 (8) 4 0

Season by Season Apps Start (Sub) Unused Sub Goals
2020-2021 17 13 (4) 2 0
League 17 13 (4) 2 0
2021-2022 21 18 (3) 1 0
League 20 17 (3) 1 0
FA Cup 1 1 (0) 0 0
2022-2023 39 38 (1) 1 0
League 36 36 (0) 1 0
FA Cup 2 2 (0) 0 0
League Cup 1 0 (1) 0 0

Appearances Date Score
Match Events
Liverpool
Premier League		 A 12/09/2020 3 : 4 L
Fulham
Premier League		 H 19/09/2020 4 : 3 W
Sheffield United
Premier League		 A 27/09/2020 1 : 0 W
Manchester City
Premier League		 H 03/10/2020 1 : 1 D
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Premier League		 H 19/10/2020 0 : 1 L
Aston Villa
Premier League		 A 23/10/2020 3 : 0 W
Leicester City
Premier League		 H 02/11/2020 1 : 4 L
Crystal Palace
Premier League		 A 07/11/2020 1 : 4 L
Arsenal
Premier League		 H 22/11/2020 0 : 0 D
Everton
Premier League		 A 28/11/2020 1 : 0 W
Chelsea
Premier League		 A 05/12/2020 1 : 3 L
Fulham
Premier League		 A 19/03/2021 2 : 1 W
Sheffield United
Premier League		 H 03/04/2021 2 : 1 W
Manchester City
Premier League		 A 10/04/2021 2 : 1 W
Manchester United
Premier League		 H 25/04/2021 0 : 0 D
Brighton & Hove Albion
Premier League		 A 01/05/2021 0 : 2 L
Tottenham Hotspur
Premier League		 H 08/05/2021 3 : 1 W
Manchester United
Premier League		 A 14/08/2021 1 : 5 L
Arsenal
Premier League		 H 18/12/2021 1 : 4 L
Burnley
Premier League		 H 02/01/2022 3 : 1 W
West Ham United
FA Cup, 3rd Round		 A 09/01/2022 0 : 2 L
West Ham United
Premier League		 A 16/01/2022 3 : 2 W
Newcastle United
Premier League		 H 22/01/2022 0 : 1 L
Aston Villa
Premier League		 A 09/02/2022 3 : 3 D
Everton
Premier League		 A 12/02/2022 0 : 3 L
Manchester United
Premier League		 H 20/02/2022 2 : 4 L
Tottenham Hotspur
Premier League		 H 26/02/2022 0 : 4 L
Leicester City
Premier League		 A 05/03/2022 0 : 1 L
Aston Villa
Premier League		 H 10/03/2022 0 : 3 L
Norwich City
Premier League		 H 13/03/2022 2 : 1 W
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Premier League		 A 18/03/2022 3 : 2 W
Watford
Premier League		 A 09/04/2022 3 : 0 W
Crystal Palace
Premier League		 A 25/04/2022 0 : 0 D
Manchester City
Premier League		 H 30/04/2022 0 : 4 L
Arsenal
Premier League		 A 08/05/2022 1 : 2 L
Chelsea
Premier League		 H 11/05/2022 0 : 3 L
Brighton & Hove Albion
Premier League		 H 15/05/2022 1 : 1 D
Brentford
Premier League		 A 22/05/2022 2 : 1 W
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Premier League		 H 06/08/2022 2 : 1 W
Southampton
Premier League		 A 13/08/2022 2 : 2 D
Chelsea
Premier League		 H 21/08/2022 3 : 0 W
Barnsley
Carabao Cup, 2nd Round		 H 24/08/2022 3 : 1 W
Brighton & Hove Albion
Premier League		 A 27/08/2022 0 : 1 L
Everton
Premier League		 H 30/08/2022 1 : 1 D
Brentford
Premier League		 A 03/09/2022 2 : 5 L
Aston Villa
Premier League		 H 02/10/2022 0 : 0 D
Crystal Palace
Premier League		 A 09/10/2022 1 : 2 L
Arsenal
Premier League		 H 16/10/2022 0 : 1 L
Leicester City
Premier League		 A 20/10/2022 0 : 2 L
Fulham
Premier League		 H 23/10/2022 2 : 3 L
Liverpool
Premier League		 A 29/10/2022 2 : 1 W
Bournemouth
Premier League		 H 05/11/2022 4 : 3 W
Tottenham Hotspur
Premier League		 A 12/11/2022 3 : 4 L
Manchester City
Premier League		 H 28/12/2022 1 : 3 L
Newcastle United
Premier League		 A 31/12/2022 0 : 0 D
West Ham United
Premier League		 H 04/01/2023 2 : 2 D
Aston Villa
Premier League		 A 13/01/2023 1 : 2 L
Brentford
Premier League		 H 22/01/2023 0 : 0 D
Accrington Stanley
FA Cup, 4th Round		 A 28/01/2023 3 : 1 W
Manchester United
Premier League		 A 08/02/2023 2 : 2 D
Manchester United
Premier League		 H 12/02/2023 0 : 2 L
Everton
Premier League		 A 18/02/2023 0 : 1 L
Southampton
Premier League		 H 25/02/2023 1 : 0 W
Fulham
FA Cup, 5th Round		 A 28/02/2023 0 : 2 L
Chelsea
Premier League		 A 04/03/2023 0 : 1 L
Brighton & Hove Albion
Premier League		 H 11/03/2023 2 : 2 D
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Premier League		 A 18/03/2023 4 : 2 W
Arsenal
Premier League		 A 01/04/2023 1 : 4 L
Nottingham Forest
Premier League		 H 04/04/2023 2 : 1 W
Crystal Palace
Premier League		 H 09/04/2023 1 : 5 L
Liverpool
Premier League		 H 17/04/2023 1 : 6 L
Fulham
Premier League		 A 22/04/2023 1 : 2 L
Leicester City
Premier League		 H 25/04/2023 1 : 1 D
Bournemouth
Premier League		 A 30/04/2023 1 : 4 L
Newcastle United
Premier League		 H 13/05/2023 2 : 2 D
West Ham United
Premier League		 A 21/05/2023 1 : 3 L
Tottenham Hotspur
Premier League		 H 28/05/2023 1 : 4 L
Unused Sub Date Score
Match Events
Chelsea
Premier League		 H 13/03/2021 0 : 0 D Unused Sub
Liverpool
Premier League		 H 19/04/2021 1 : 1 D Unused Sub
Southampton
Premier League		 H 02/04/2022 1 : 1 D Unused Sub
Manchester City
Premier League		 A 06/05/2023 1 : 2 L Unused Sub

References
Transfermarkt: Player Profile Robin Koch
WhoScored: Player Profile Robin Koch
Marching on Together: Forum Topic for Robin Koch
Sheridan Dictates: Player Profile for Robin Koch
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View all Showing latest 5 of 405 comments...

weasel wrote on 10 Jan 2024 11:35 pm

Yeah it's a bit like a business, say Wilko's, doing their accounts and saying they are £10m in debt but have stock worth £15m. However the stock is only worth £15m if they sell it at full value.

They could sell it as a discount, say half price, but then would only recoup £7.5m and as such would go out of business with £2.5m debts.

Instead they try to sell all the stock at full value. They sell £5m worth of stock, at full value, and can keep paying their staff (lets say £2m in wages). They don't go out of business. They use the £3m they have made (the £5m minus the £2m wages) to pay £1m to the bank to pay the interest on the £10m debt, and to buy £2m worth of new stock and keep the business going. They now still owe £10m and only have £12m of stock instead of £15m but they have kept the bank happy and the staff happy so the business continues.

That's sort of how I see it with FFP. You can run your business (the club) into the ground making loss after loss but satisfying FFP requirements. At some point though you run out of stock (players with value) and are f*cked. FFP doesn't protect clubs and certainly doesn't make things fair.

Cjay wrote on 10 Jan 2024 10:02 pm

weasel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:17 pm Yes you're right about the yearly hits but by running the contract downs you are taking the small hit per year rather than the lump sum loss if we were to sell a player mid contract for a vast loss. So as an example if we sold AAronsen last summer for £10m we take the big hit there and then. If he goes a year later for the same £0m we have the loss of his value over this year but then a smaller loss against FFP next year. So it is about managing the losses so it isn't a huge loss one season. Going on loan also saved the wages which are likely a few million too.

So it sort of means not taking the huge hit this year, take a manageable hit, and then we also take a hit next season but again not a huge hit - and of course if we go up it becomes less of an issue.
Ah I see now that's basically how I understand it.

But ultimately its still a loss.

And ffp is over a 3 yer rolling period so for Koch it still is going to be a loss approaching £10mil

danhirons wrote on 10 Jan 2024 09:32 pm

weasel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:17 pm Yes you're right about the yearly hits but by running the contract downs you are taking the small hit per year rather than the lump sum loss if we were to sell a player mid contract for a vast loss. So as an example if we sold AAronsen last summer for £10m we take the big hit there and then. If he goes a year later for the same £0m we have the loss of his value over this year but then a smaller loss against FFP next year. So it is about managing the losses so it isn't a huge loss one season. Going on loan also saved the wages which are likely a few million too.

So it sort of means not taking the huge hit this year, take a manageable hit, and then we also take a hit next season but again not a huge hit - and of course if we go up it becomes less of an issue.
i get you! makes sense now

weasel wrote on 10 Jan 2024 07:17 pm

danhirons wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 6:13 pm Sorry weasal you're wrong on the running contracts down thing. Chelsea get away with it because they signed players on really long contracts (no longer allowed). Man city get away with it because of dodgy sponsorship deals meaning they bring a lot of money in. If you sign a player and let him run his contract down and leave for nothing, he will be a loss for each of those years.

You sign a player for 20 million GBP on a 4 year contract and he leaves after 4 years on a free somewhere else, is a -5 million on FFP each year. If he signs a contract extension the remaining amortized amount gets spread over the additional contract years.

Hence Chelsea have signed a load of players on 8 year deals because they can spread the transfer fee over 8 years e.g., 80 million pound fee is 10 million GBP every contract year (spread out even further if the player signs a new contract at some point). UEFA have now stopped this practice, I think the max is 5/6 years regardless of contract length now.

Conceptually what you're saying just doesn't make any sense on the players running their contracts down - I don't even fully understand how you come to that conclusion.

Also the loan deals make no sense from a FFP position, as I explained above Phil Hay confirmed the loan deals were only included in the players' contracts so that they would accept relegation wage reduction clauses.

If, instead we would have sold Koch this summer, for say 10 million, this would have counted against his ffp amortized fee this year i.e., it would have been for this financial year: - 13/4 + 10 = +6.75 mill on FFP balance. Instead it was -13/4 + (whatever loan fee we got)
Yes you're right about the yearly hits but by running the contract downs you are taking the small hit per year rather than the lump sum loss if we were to sell a player mid contract for a vast loss. So as an example if we sold AAronsen last summer for £10m we take the big hit there and then. If he goes a year later for the same £10m we have the loss of his value over this year but then a smaller loss against FFP next year. So it is about managing the losses so it isn't a huge loss one season. Going on loan also saved the wages which are likely a few million too.

So it sort of means not taking the huge hit this year, take a manageable hit, and then we also take a hit next season but again not a huge hit - and of course if we go up it becomes less of an issue.

danhirons wrote on 10 Jan 2024 06:13 pm

weasel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 5:38 pm That's why I say it works against smaller clubs who don't have rich owners. City, Chelsea etc can simply spend what they want and as shown in my examples get round FFP even if they were losing billions from a business point of view. Whereas say a lower league club needs to sell to keep afloat but by doing so could actually come afoul of FFP.

That's why our loan deals (apart from Koch's) made great sense in terms of FFP but no sense at all in a business sense.

Say for example (and will use estimated values and contracts) we sold these players last summer for the fees I have put

Aaronsen for £10m
Rasmus £5m
Roca £5m
Wober £8m

Initially you would think okay we lost a fair bit of money but at least we have £28m to now spend.

But instead we would have been £15.5m down on what FFP would allow us to spend

£8m down FFP wise on Aaronsen (£24m 4 year contract FFP value £18m)
£4m down FFP wise on Rasmus (£12m 4 year contract FFP value £9m)
£2.5m down FFP wise on Roca (£10m 4 year contract FFP value £7.5m)
£1m down FFP wise on Wober (£10.5m 3 1/2 year contract FFP value £9m)

So instead of having £28m to spend we don't. We have £28m sitting in the bank and have to sell someone, who has no FFP value, for £15.5m just to be level on FFP. So maybe we sell all those but then have to sell Gnonto for around £25m (let's assume that gives us a £15.5m profit after his FFP value is taken off and we pay Zurich their % cut of the profit) just to balance out FFP balance. So we have raised £43.5m in player sales but can't spend any of it.



As it was we sold Tyler Adams for £25m which saw us bring in £10m against FFP - (in this example I am suggesting we bought him for £20m on a 4 year deal). We also sold Rodrigo for £3m which was a £3m loss against FFP (£24m 4 year deal value was £6m). As such we raised a total £7m that we could spend against FFP.

We brought in Piroe for £15m, Ampadu £7m, Kamara £5m and Gruev £5m. Let's say those were all on 4 year deals so that is £32m spent that equates to an FFP expense of £8m for the year. As such we're £1m down against FFP this season for our transfer dealings.
Sorry weasal you're wrong on the running contracts down thing. Chelsea get away with it because they signed players on really long contracts (no longer allowed). Man city get away with it because of dodgy sponsorship deals meaning they bring a lot of money in. If you sign a player and let him run his contract down and leave for nothing, he will be a loss for each of those years.

You sign a player for 20 million GBP on a 4 year contract and he leaves after 4 years on a free somewhere else, is a -5 million on FFP each year. If he signs a contract extension the remaining amortized amount gets spread over the additional contract years.

Hence Chelsea have signed a load of players on 8 year deals because they can spread the transfer fee over 8 years e.g., 80 million pound fee is 10 million GBP every contract year (spread out even further if the player signs a new contract at some point). UEFA have now stopped this practice, I think the max is 5/6 years regardless of contract length now.

Conceptually what you're saying just doesn't make any sense on the players running their contracts down - I don't even fully understand how you come to that conclusion.

Also the loan deals make no sense from a FFP position, as I explained above Phil Hay confirmed the loan deals were only included in the players' contracts so that they would accept relegation wage reduction clauses.

If, instead we would have sold Koch this summer, for say 10 million, this would have counted against his ffp amortized fee this year i.e., it would have been for this financial year: - 13/4 + 10 = +6.75 mill on FFP balance. Instead it was -13/4 + (whatever loan fee we got)
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