Pele- Rest In Peace

[Orange Box]

… and he did produce two or three amazing moments.

??? Words fail me.

Actually they don’t. What you have to remember is that the bulk of Pele’s football was played in front of one camera, pre video recording days. Not like today when even players snotting on the field gets airtime.

Please feel free to make your own judgment, that is a quality I admire, however base it on research, because that statement above is an insult. It feels like the product of lazy journalism feeding todays short attention span public.

[The Subhuman]

Pele probably produced about 1 or 2 thousand special moment .... he was also the trailblazer that so many copied. The Cryuff turn, first done by Pele.. Berbatov spin, first done by Pele... etc

[The Subhuman]

Even his misses are iconic

[The Subhuman]

The elevation he gets on that header plus the power in it from that position. Not to mention Alberto's ball, and Jairzinho skinning Cooper for a cross which should be impossible from there as it was a reach just to keep it in play

70% of Pele's magic went unfilmed..

[Sockerist]

??? Words fail me.

Actually they don’t. What you have to remember is that the bulk of Pele’s football was played in front of one camera, pre video recording days. Not like today when even players snotting on the field gets airtime.

Please feel free to make your own judgment, that is a quality I admire, however base it on research, because that statement above is an insult. It feels like the product of lazy journalism feeding todays short attention span public.

You've taken out one sentence in a long post and gone into an emotional strop about it. Have I made you cry?

I think Pelé was a terrific player - I said so above - but he was also hyped up to an extraordinary degree, and this bullying insistence that I must worship at his feet (which your own post is an example of) makes me inclined to question whether he was quite as good as everybody is making out. That doesn't mean I am questioning his abilities, but I would question whether people other than Pelé have exaggerated his abilities, and I wonder if there were times when Pelé himself was at least slightly embarrassed by all the superlatives being lavished on him by (mostly) rather silly people, some of whom come across as almost mentally-ill when they discuss their cult worship of a hero who was, at the end of day, just another person who put his trousers on one leg at a time like you and me.

I don't have to 'prove' any of this because I don't hold to any firm position beyond that it does seem to me that the enthusiasm for Pelé is a cult, and there were lots of players of comparable ability, many of them now forgotten. That is all subjective, just my opinion, and anyway, this is not a tribunal of inquiry. I am just sceptical and I think I have good reason to be.

[Clacton White]

??? Words fail me.

Actually they don’t. What you have to remember is that the bulk of Pele’s football was played in front of one camera, pre video recording days. Not like today when even players snotting on the field gets airtime.

Please feel free to make your own judgment, that is a quality I admire, however base it on research, because that statement above is an insult. It feels like the product of lazy journalism feeding todays short attention span public.

There is a lot to consider .....the basic equipment bused back then , pitches , brutal players at times , tactics ......all very different from the scientific era of today with lightweight synthetic balls , footwear , pristine pitches , far less contact in the game physically......that's not even going into squad rotation and bigger squads etc hence most players are playing less so fresher .It was a different game entirely.He was I think the games first world superstar, maybe only Matthews or Puskas could have had that reputation prior and not even sure they were close .Yes , the footage is also limited , they didn't have every angle , every minute and I daresay a lot of what he did doesn't even exist on film . He was a pure footballing genius .

[Mountain]

You've taken out one sentence in a long post and gone into an emotional strop about it. Have I made you cry?
...this bullying insistence that I must worship at his feet (which your own post is an example of)
...all the superlatives being lavished on him by (mostly) rather silly people, some of whom come across as almost mentally-ill when they discuss their cult worship of a hero who was, at the end of day, just another person who put his trousers on one leg at a time like you and me.
...the enthusiasm for Pelé is a cult...

So you say that the people who admire Pele are silly and mentally ill, they bully you and they are a cult? Because Pele put on his trousers just like you do?

And when someone makes a far calmer point than your efforts, you goad them and ask if you made them cry?

That's one truly awful post.

[Orange Box]

You've taken out one sentence in a long post and gone into an emotional strop about it. Have I made you cry?

My you have a hyper inflated opinion of yourself. It’s not like you’re Lassie, is it?

I stopped worrying about physical bullies a long long time ago. I’m not going to start cowering from a keyboard warrior at my time of life.

Have your opinion, you don’t have justify it to me. Crack on.

[Cjay]

His Mother is still alive.

She is 100.

His sister has said that she hasn't told her frail mother about his death yet

[Sockerist]

My you have a hyper inflated opinion of yourself. It’s not like you’re Lassie, is it?

I stopped worrying about physical bullies a long long time ago. I’m not going to start cowering from a keyboard warrior at my time of life.

Have your opinion, you don’t have justify it to me. Crack on.

Suppose I do have a high opinion of myself, is that so wrong? Would it be better if I adopt a low opinion of myself? And who would that help?

I just gave my opinion. I did it politely and considerately, acknowledging what a terrific player he was. I don't mind you replying, if you want to, but you seem very offended for some reason, as if I've personally insulted your honour. It's very odd behaviour, but quite amusing really. I think it's further evidence of how vulnerable we all are to cults and cult thinking (I include myself in this, as I think it's a common human trait).

So you say that the people who admire Pele are silly and mentally ill, they bully you and they are a cult? Because Pele put on his trousers just like you do?

And when someone makes a far calmer point than your efforts, you goad them and ask if you made them cry?

That's one truly awful post.

That's not what I meant, and I think you know that. I was referring to people who fawn over him. I think celebrity cults are odd and it is odd to single out one player and turn him into an unquestioned cult figure when the game is so broad and vast. I think it shows a poor understanding of the game, for one thing.

I think your post and the one I quote above serve to underscore my point. The two of you are having emotional breakdowns because somebody came on the thread and politely suggested that his reputation may have been exaggerated and the hype should warrant scepticism. It hardly points to the most radical argument and I haven't slagged him off.

[Overman]

Suppose I do have a high opinion of myself, is that so wrong? Would it be better if I adopt a low opinion of myself? And who would that help?

I just gave my opinion. I did it politely and considerately, acknowledging what a terrific player he was. I don't mind you replying, if you want to, but you seem very offended for some reason, as if I've personally insulted your honour. It's very odd behaviour, but quite amusing really. I think it's further evidence of how vulnerable we all are to cults and cult thinking (I include myself in this, as I think it's a common human trait).



That's not what I meant, and I think you know that. I was referring to people who fawn over him. I think celebrity cults are odd and it is odd to single out one player and turn him into an unquestioned cult figure when the game is so broad and vast. I think it shows a poor understanding of the game, for one thing.

I think your post and the one I quote above serve to underscore my point. The two of you are having emotional breakdowns because somebody came on the thread and politely suggested that his reputation may have been exaggerated and the hype should warrant scepticism. It hardly points to the most radical argument and I haven't slagged him off.

Very well presented and it's hard to disagree. Welcome to the forum Sockerist.

[White Riot]

I think we can all agree that Pele was and still is the highest profile footballer that there has ever been.

I was only 7 when he was strutting his stuff at the 1970 World Cup as part of that great Brazil team.

A brilliant player, who brought breath-taking excitement to the game.

My favoutite player is Johan Cruyff and I view him as the greatest of all time, it doesn't mean that he is, just that he made the biggest impression on me.

But Cruyff, or any other player, has not had anywhere near the impact that Pele had on the game.

Shame that another one of the greats has gone

[Mountain]

The two of you are having emotional breakdowns because somebody came on the thread and politely suggested that his reputation may have been exaggerated and the hype should warrant scepticism. It hardly points to the most radical argument and I haven't slagged him off.

Ah, so saying Pele admirers are mentally ill was polite, and me laughing at that was "having an emotional breakdown".

[GreennWhite]

Its impossible to say one player was/has been the best ever. We all have our own ideas of what makes great players.
Puskas, Di Stefano, Pele, Cruyff, Best, Maradona or Messi, to name a few, how can you say one of those players is far batter than the others.
All we can do is give our own opinions in a dignified and thoughtful way without calling out people just because they dont agree.

R.I.P. Pele

[mentalcase]

I suppose a lot of it goes to how far one is willing to go back to determine the 'greatest' Billy Wright was rightly lauded in his day, as were Mathews and Finney, the huddersfield side when they were in their pomp, the arsenal side before them, the engineers (not the pub across from t'dog & duck)
Having said all that, it's Pele that comes across as arguably the greatest, like I've mentioned before with Ali (Clay) in boxing, there were undefeated boxers but Ali is known as the 'greatest' go figure.

[Muppet the Cat]

[Sockerist]

Ah, so saying Pele admirers are mentally ill was polite, and me laughing at that was "having an emotional breakdown".

I'm still waiting for your point. Is there actually a point to your posts beyond complaining about something I have said that you don't agree with?

I didn't say that people who admire Pelé are mentally-ill. That was neither my meaning nor what I literally said, and you know that.

What I actually said is that people who lavish praise on him "come across almost as mentally-ill". You're taking my comment out of context and twisting the nuance of it into something I didn't mean.

I find your petty nature quite entertaining but you're just deliberately wasting my time. Have you got nothing better to do?

[Mountain]

I'm still waiting for your point. Is there actually a point to your posts beyond complaining about something I have said that you don't agree with?

I didn't say that people who admire Pelé are mentally-ill. That was neither my meaning nor what I literally said, and you know that.

What I actually said is that people who lavish praise on him "come across almost as mentally-ill". You're taking my comment out of context and twisting the nuance of it into something I didn't mean.

I find your petty nature quite entertaining but you're just deliberately wasting my time. Have you got nothing better to do?

The poster that writes 36 paragraphs to explain away his racism uses the "have you nothing better to do" line!

[Sockerist]

The poster that writes 36 paragraphs to explain away his racism uses the "have you nothing better to do" line!

I am not 'explaining away' anything. If you think my views are 'racist', you are free to say so. I don't believe my views, as expressed here and on another thread, are racist. In the case of this thread, it is rather odd to suggest I am 'racist' because I don't believe in the greatly hyped and exaggerated reputation of a footballer who was black-skinned, especially when I have made a special point of saying he was a terrific footballer. It does suggest that you are the type of person who sees racism when it isn't there - which I find quite amusing.

Still, I don't mind you saying that I'm racist, if that floats your boat. It's not the worst thing in the world to be accused of and when you keep repeating it, I find it quite entertaining as it conjures up in my mind an image of a lathered ranter at some dusty Nonconformist chapel, perhaps near Wakefield, Meltham or Mirfield or somewhere like that, indulging in moral outrage at some verbal infraction. It only serves to reinforce my belief that views such as yours are not consensual but have to be imposed and that the particular culture of northern Europeans, which is built on social co-operation, lends itself to shaming people into accepting social narratives that don't make sense.

It is nonsensical to hold up one footballer as the greatest ever, because the game is too vast. I don't have a great issue with it, though, as it's relatively trivial. I will instead turn to the real issue. It simply makes no sense to have black footballers representing England. They're not English. By observing this, I am doing nothing more than pointing out that 2 and 2 makes 4. You know that I am right, so your response is to ring the shame bell and call me 'racist'. I suppose in a way you are right: in the real world, your tactic would work because nobody wants to stand out. Pseudonymity gives me the freedom to speak more truthfully than I could in the dry chapel of reality that people like you have created, with its grim neo-Puritan insistence that we all hold 'good thoughts' in our heads and speak 'goodly', even if it is not actually really true.

[Mountain]

I will instead turn to the real issue. It simply makes no sense to have black footballers representing England. They're not English. By observing this, I am doing nothing more than pointing out that 2 and 2 makes 4. You know that I am right, so your response is to ring the shame bell and call me 'racist'.

Because you clearly are racist.

Anyway, it's not just the content. It's the delivery. All the stuff about "ban me, ban me, go on ban me, you know you want to" and referring to posters as being in a cult or mentally ill for disagreeing. Or asking posters if they're going to cry. It's very silly.