Sheffield Wednesday v Leeds Utd Match Thread

[Orange Box]

Long ball worked well for the crazy gang all those years ago. The purists hated it then and the snobs hate it now.

It is a great weapon to have in your armoury imo

totally agree, if its the only tactic then it's pants, however, as you say, when used occasionally its a thing of great beauty. Bamford at Peterborough for example.

[DDB220]

The long ball is effective against teams who have a high defensive line, a lack of pace at the back and a poorly positioned keeper.
The modern day keeper is far more comfortable coming out of his box to guard against this.

It was popular in days gone by at the top level when defences sat deeper and the big lump targetman up front had more chance of winning the initial challenge - generally in the air.

In the main we are playing against defensive big lumps sitting back in a low block without an effective target man. It makes no sense to gerrit in the mixer as we will just surrender possession needlessly. The long ball to the flanks is a possibility but again against a low block it is more likely to come to nothing unless the ball is played into space, which the likes of Cry or DJ can run into.

It has happened this season to good effect against teams that have left some space in behind. But with the exception of a teams willing to commit players forward or a team chasing the game our opportunities have not been bountiful.

[Kennyb41]

The long ball is effective against teams who have a high defensive line, a lack of pace at the back and a poorly positioned keeper.
The modern day keeper is far more comfortable coming out of his box to guard against this.

It was popular in days gone by at the top level when defences sat deeper and the big lump targetman up front had more chance of winning the initial challenge - generally in the air.

In the main we are playing against defensive big lumps sitting back in a low block without an effective target man. It makes no sense to gerrit in the mixer as we will just surrender possession needlessly. The long ball to the flanks is a possibility but again against a low block it is more likely to come to nothing unless the ball is played into space, which the likes of Cry or DJ can run into.

It has happened this season to good effect against teams that have left some space in behind. But with the exception of a teams willing to commit players forward or a team chasing the game our opportunities have not been bountiful.

It is one thing that's baffled me from DF in away games where the oppo's aren't falling for being dragged around, or closing down our defenders that are trying to bring the ball out, we waste so much time slowly knocking it about leaving oppo's to just get so easily organised, it annoys me to fck actually and has me going ape in my living room, so much my neighbours think there's a murder happening (yes, it is that bad).

I've seen occasions where our CH's have pounced forward at times (like they should and have been told) but nowhere near enough.
It takes 3 minutes of the game to realise they're not falling for it, and immediately they don't just get the ball asap up into their final third and rush them, our front 4 are a handful for any feckin defence in this league, then back them up asap with the LB, RB and an attacking ball winning Kamara and you've instantly got them on the back foot.

I've yet to see us do it away.

[DDB220]

It is one thing that's baffled me from DF in away games where the oppo's aren't falling for being dragged around, or closing down our defenders that are trying to bring the ball out, we waste so much time slowly knocking it about leaving oppo's to just get so easily organised, it annoys me to fck actually and has me going ape in my living room, so much my neighbours think there's a murder happening (yes, it is that bad).

I've seen occasions where our CH's have pounced forward at times (like they should and have been told) but nowhere near enough.
It takes 3 minutes of the game to realise they're not falling for it, and immediately they don't just get the ball asap up into their final third and rush them, our front 4 are a handful for any feckin defence in this league, then back them up asap with the LB, RB and an attacking ball winning Kamara and you've instantly got them on the back foot.

I've yet to see us do it away.

You are not the only one getting frustrated by this. Whether it is by design is hard to be absolutely certain. But DF has never commented, that we do not progress the ball quick enough, well not that I can remember.

The only conclusion I can make is that it is designed to frustrate the opposition into trying something that creates gaps. I am not sure it does very often tbh. For me the Gruev / Kamara combination does not inject pace into our play, it is as others regularly commentate mostly sideways and backwards passing. Although Gruev is the more forward thinking out of the pair.
Amps and Rodon do on occasion break the lines with a run, which all too frequently loses any momentum by the person receiving the ball taking far too many touches. Whether this is because of a lack of options is hard for me to discern without watching a game live from the stands.
This is why Geo is is so influential as he will drop deep, take the ball and inject pace when he rides the initial challenge, he can also pick a great pass. But it is evident the opposition are alive to this and he is attracting far more attention now.

This for me is why Archie needs to replace Kamara, because of his ability on the ball he will attract some attention away from Geo, which will create gaps that Geo can exploit and he can also generate momentum with his own positive attacking prowess.

Whether DF sees it this way and prefers to play is safe initially is anyones guess.

[Carrick Dave]

Guess who the dirtiest team in the league are so far this season.

https://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/1220345585?-1 ... top_latest

Definitely another Huddersfield encounter coming up.

[The Subhuman]

[The Subhuman]

Unchanged really, our first 11 as seen by Farke

[1964white]

Unlucky Dan James.

[Kennyb41]

You are not the only one getting frustrated by this. Whether it is by design is hard to be absolutely certain. But DF has never commented, that we do not progress the ball quick enough, well not that I can remember.

The only conclusion I can make is that it is designed to frustrate the opposition into trying something that creates gaps. I am not sure it does very often tbh. For me the Gruev / Kamara combination does not inject pace into our play, it is as others regularly commentate mostly sideways and backwards passing. Although Gruev is the more forward thinking out of the pair.
Amps and Rodon do on occasion break the lines with a run, which all too frequently loses any momentum by the person receiving the ball taking far too many touches. Whether this is because of a lack of options is hard for me to discern without watching a game live from the stands.
This is why Geo is is so influential as he will drop deep, take the ball and inject pace when he rides the initial challenge, he can also pick a great pass. But it is evident the opposition are alive to this and he is attracting far more attention now.

This for me is why Archie needs to replace Kamara, because of his ability on the ball he will attract some attention away from Geo, which will create gaps that Geo can exploit and he can also generate momentum with his own positive attacking prowess.

Whether DF sees it this way and prefers to play is safe initially is anyones guess.

Kamara is the more progressive one with Gruev anchoring, Kam pushes up into a 4-1-4-1 when it's on.

Kamara/Gray could work better or back to Ampadu/Gray or Ampadu/Kamara, but i don't like to see Rutter having to come too deep to get involved, and that should be the alarm call to get it up field when he does.

But most teams are s**t if we blitz them fast and not let them get organised and can't cope with our front 4 plus Byram - Gray - Kamara heading up as well, yes it leaves gaping holes, but most aren't good enough to exploit that

[Barlow Boy]

Unlucky Dan James.

Provides more of a threat from the bench than Gnonto for me, with his pace against tiring defenders.

[The Subhuman]

Provides more of a threat from the bench than Gnonto for me, with his pace against tiring defenders.

Gnonto the cleverer more technical player ..Unlucky is probably Roberts

[Clitheroe White]

Means no injuries from Tuesday which is good news.

[Kennyb41]

He's obviously keeping Willys petulant sulking face happy, and probably by suggesting last game he 'rested him'

[Barlow Boy]

Gnonto the cleverer more technical player ..Unlucky is probably Roberts

Possibly re Gnonto .

If I was a right/left back and I see James coming on in the 70th minute, and I’ve been pulled all over the place already then I’d be dreading the remainder of the game.

Agree with Roberts, as I’ve mentioned in his dedicated thread, a proper player for me.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Dropped James and Roberts. Everyone must be 100%. Better be nobody mentioning tired legs or fatigue after this one.

[Ellandback1]

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[60sUnited]

Would rather have seen Roberts included and Archie into midfield, we should go for them from the off....but I think they will score first so it will be a battle.

[Clitheroe White]

Possibly re Gnonto .

If I was a right/left back and I see James coming on in the 70th minute, and I’ve been pulled all over the place already then I’d be dreading the remainder of the game.

Agree with Roberts, as I’ve mentioned in his dedicated thread, a proper player for me.

Totally agree

[weasel]

Dropped James and Roberts. Everyone must be 100%. Better be nobody mentioning tired legs or fatigue after this one.

I think we have seen recently the impact that James and Roberts coming on v Huddersfield and Leicester had. Always good to have something tried and tested to bring on rather than a hail mary.

[DDB220]

Kamara is the more progressive one with Gruev anchoring, Kam pushes up into a 4-1-4-1 when it's on.

Kamara/Gray could work better or back to Ampadu/Gray or Ampadu/Kamara, but i don't like to see Rutter having to come too deep to get involved, and that should be the alarm call to get it up field when he does.

But most teams are s**t if we blitz them fast and not let them get organised and can't cope with our front 4 plus Byram - Gray - Kamara heading up as well, yes it leaves gaping holes, but most aren't good enough to exploit that

Forward thinking in terms of progressing the ball by picking a forward pass more often is a what I allude to.

Looking at the line up - I see scope for the usual pattern of introducing Robert’s, and DJ and shifting Archie. When and if this happens will depend on the nature of the game.
Wendies are better in transition under their new coach, who has that RB influence in his tactical approach.
Hopefully they will leave space in behind for our quick transitions to exploit. I expect Geo will be at the centre of this. Hopefully he find space in the pocket.