Arsenal v Leeds Utd Match Thread

[Johnsie123]

We could blame everyone but you got to say gruive was at fault for 2 why would you mark the back post and not stay there ?,how can they score 2 goals when the ball goes between the 2cd again who knows.We cannot go back to meslier he is crap, but you have to ask the question has farke learnt anything from his previous experiences in the prem imo DEFINITELY NOT and I don't thinkvthe 49ers will be impressed all that money spent and 2 of the new boys start how can that be right it's not .

[Cjay]

Have to say with respect for last season I'm far from convinced by Dan James at this level.

[weasel]

Fair post.

Are some important differences between the way Bielsa plays out and Farke which probably don't help.

Body position of the player and such, Farke likes players to maintain control so generally our players take a touch and pass, whereas Bielsa was more focused on progression so the body position of the receiver was different and the passing position (in front of a player or at a player) sort of thing.

Both had merits and downsides, Bielsa's requires almost telepathic movement and passing lanes and very quick slick stuff which obviously is a risk in itself because of the pace and intricacies.

And Farke's is as its slower by design easier to pen in I'd say, it invites the press by its very design.

I have some sympathy for Perri in the sense he was being asked to do a lot of what he isn't good at in terms of playing out from the back, as you say we probably needed a long plan, to relieve pressure and get up the pitch.

But selection made that hard.

At the same time I'd hope Perri would be better at the basics, crosses and such.

I do find it really really odd we've apparently never got a specialist set piece coach in, I don't understand that (and as far as I know we still havent).

Our season won't be defined by the defeat (all be it a 5-0 defeat which we made easy ourselves isn't ok).

And the hope would be imo it maybe focuses some minds, Farke the owners all of them into what's missing, what works and what doesn't.

If it can be a learning curve then that would be nice.

You'd hope to see an indication of such next weekend.

And I personally have said all summer I think this playing out from the back needs to stop quite a lot of the time (especially against pressing teams like Arsenal)

I think we are capable of playing out from the back in the same way we have for the last 2 seasons and don't think we are anything like Southampton (or Burnley the year before under Kompany). They seemed to play it with no real sense of where they wanted to get the ball to at the end of the passing. I think we have shown we can mix it up a fair bit, plodding passing then a quick release, a couple of one-twos and we are down the wing. Or Struyjk able to knock a decent long ball, Rodon with a driving run through the middle of the pitch etc.

What we saw on Saturday though was players panicking and the ball becoming the hot potato where every pass made it harder for the next player receiving the ball. A lack of composure, maybe self doubt - 'Do I belong at this level' etc

So for me I think we can play the 'Farke' way as long as this was just a one-off bad performance - time will tell. Are the players comfortable enough on the ball to do it? Again time will tell.

[weasel]

That's pretty Marschesque tbf, celebrate moments at 4-0 down vs a team barely trying anymore

Was just making the point about the rare nature of that width of defeat and it being unacceptable.

Regardless of opposition defeats by 5 goals aren't excusable is basically the point imo.

I can see the point he is trying to make. At 4-0 we could have just folded as there was something like 30 minutes left. I admit I stopped watching at 4-0 and just checked on the score now and again and as such we did nearly get through the last half hour without conceding.

As a manager I think you have to try to find any positives you can after a heavy defeat - same as you have to see what you can improve on even if you have smashed a team.

For me 5-0 flattered Arsenal. Is that a positive or a negative in terms of us - I don't really know. I would say just about everything that could go wrong did - we had no luck go our way and you need that in these types of games. That's not to say that we didn't deserve to lose or that we were unlucky. We had too many players woefully underperform.

Key is how we bounce back. A point against Newcastle and pointswise it has been a good start to the season. Even a loss and it won't have been a disastrous start (hoping if it is a loss then there are some positives such as we score a couple of goals and don't get spanked). Just have to look at the most important stat and that is points on the board. Better to have beaten Everton and then got spanked than to have drawn both games.

[weasel]

Have to say with respect for last season I'm far from convinced by Dan James at this level.

I think same as last season some matches he will be quiet but some matches he will be absolutely electric. If he has 32 poor matches but 6 matches where he scores the winning goal or sets up the winning goal then it goes a long way to us staying up. Solomon had plenty of poor matches - I think it is just the way of wingers and they can be amazing or non-existent.

[SG90]

That's pretty Marschesque tbf, celebrate moments at 4-0 down vs a team barely trying anymore

Was just making the point about the rare nature of that width of defeat and it being unacceptable.

Regardless of opposition defeats by 5 goals aren't excusable is basically the point imo.

Interestingly the most vocal anti Marsch ones will defend Farke to the hilt

[JoeDenver]

We missed Ampadu terribly, he would have got stuck in!

How can we have a central midfielder who is non-existent like Gruev was for much of the game, a couple of blocks & one pass is not good enough from a CM, along with Perri, Ilia was responsible for the second goal right on half-time.

If Gruev is our cover for Ampadu, god help us!

Missed the second half as I had to shift to a commitment and am watching the replay now. Can’t help but feel the PL is a bit too much to ask of him (even against lower half teams). Thought Longstaff was the right player start given the guaranteed ball chasing we’d be doing against Arse.

Can’t shake the fact that Gruev was a squad player in the Championship last season and Farke thought he’d be a good player to 1) Start in the PL 2) Against the Arse and 3) play the entire 90 minutes. I concede that I’m not as knowledgeable on football as Farke, but this has to be a blind spot of his, no?

If this is the step down from Ampadu, I could be convinced of bringing in two more loan moves of a higher quality to provide adequate cover. Maybe even work out something with Rangers for Rothwell.

[weasel]

Interestingly the most vocal anti Marsch ones will defend Farke to the hilt

I wonder if that is down to being able to use our eyes to see that Marsch was a complete numpty whereas Farke is a fairly decent manager (hopefully better but obviosuly jury is still out given that he is only proven to be top level in the championship).

[SG90]

Missed the second half as I had to shift to a commitment and am watching the replay now. Can’t help but feel the PL is a bit too much to ask of him (even against lower half teams). Thought Longstaff was the right player start given the guaranteed ball chasing we’d be doing against Arse.

Can’t shake the fact that Gruev was a squad player in the Championship last season and Farke thought he’d be a good player to 1) Start in the PL 2) Against the Arse and 3) play the entire 90 minutes. I concede that I’m not as knowledgeable on football as Farke, but this has to be a blind spot of his, no?

If this is the step down from Ampadu, I could be convinced of bringing in two more loan moves of a higher quality to provide adequate cover. Maybe even work out something with Rangers for Rothwell.

Wonder if people would take KP back now? I would've done in pre season, but I think it's too late now.

[Jaydog]

Sounds like you were clearly affected by that ninth birthday party you went to and played a game when you were blindfolded and told to squeeze the bottle till the sauce came out.

I wasn’t allowed parties.
Just locked in the under stairs cupboard and told to play with myself.

[DDB220]

To be fair, it's the nature of forums isn't it.

There is a lot more to critique when we lose, a lot more for people to get off their chests. The numbers of visitors go through the roof when bad stuff happens, when we win people are happy, content and celebrate in their own ways.

Oh I know, but suggesting balance is not bad advice. Farke is not beyond reproach by any means. The jury is still out on his ability at this level.

[JoeDenver]

Wonder if people would take KP back now? I would've done in pre season, but I think it's too late now.

Despite being being a step slower from his Leeds days, he should still be an upgrade over Gruev. Didn’t catch much of Ipswich last season, but I’m not convinced of Gruev being able to contribute at all in the Prem. Kind of getting there with Piroe as well as I think we’re going to need more of a target man type which doesn’t suit his game.

Reflecting about this type of game more, I recall Javi Gracia’s tactics against Arsenal being rather unconventional (Sinesterra in the forward spot for one). Not saying that’s the strategy that needed to be employed on the day, but there definitely needed to be a deeper introspection of what could actually be achieved. Playing from the back was always going to be a fool’s errand.

That told, I can’t help but feel this type of game would’ve suited Aarsonson…he’s a menace of a presser and will run all day…just the type of player that was sorely needed for this match.

Hopefully Farke learns from this one. Definitely don’t have the stomach for more 5-0 defeats.

[Broad Ford]

After digesting this result I'm wondering if the forwards are able to grind out 9 more wins along with the defenders securing 10 draws.

40 points could be enough if results against those in and around the drop zone go in Leeds' favour. There's still a long way to go and we'll have a better idea after match 6.

The first goal from a corner was sneaky from Arsenal having players bunched at the back post, waiting until the last second before taking up their final positions. It worried me watching 2 or three Leeds players around the near post for what? Then the sneaky gits glance the first from the centre.

[Sean_Nile]

For those who love Stats.

[Sean_Nile]

The first goal from a corner was sneaky from Arsenal having players bunched at the back post, waiting until the last second before taking up their final positions. It worried me watching 2 or three Leeds players around the near post for what? Then the sneaky gits glance the first from the centre.

Arsenal have been doing the back post bunch all last year with great success, nobody seems to have an answer to it.

The secret seems to be that the Arsenal players have movement and momentum while the defenders seem to be rooted to the spot, just like Gurev on the goal line.

We seem to be stuck with the penalty spot train formation, with players queuing up behind each other.

Why the backpost bunch is better is the defenders are looking towards the ball and are blindsided by players coming from behind.

[Sean_Nile]

[White Riot]

Have to say with respect for last season I'm far from convinced by Dan James at this level.

100% Cjay

Never been convinced by him at this level, same with Harrison and Aaronson, and quite a few others will be getting their credentials examined every week this season.

Same applies to Farke, we'll soon see whether he has the competence to keep us up.

I would temper the criticism of Farke with the perspective that although the Niners have brought in players, most of those players are not at a level to be able to compete and win at this level.

So, they still have a week to get the quality recruits we need to improve our first team and compete.

Can Farke and the players adapt to the requirements of this level of football?

I'm still skeptical about him and our current squad of players.

[1964white]

100% Cjay

Never been convinced by him at this level, same with Harrison and Aaronson, and quite a few others will be getting their credentials examined every week this season.

Same applies to Farke, we'll soon see whether he has the competence to keep us up.

I would temper the criticism of Farke with the perspective that although the Niners have brought in players, most of those players are not at a level to be able to compete and win at this level.

So, they still have a week to get the quality recruits we need to improve our first team and compete.

Can Farke and the players adapt to the requirements of this level of football?

I'm still skeptical about him and our current squad of players.

James was our best forward at the Emirates

Piroe & Gnonto produced nothing going forward.

[YorkshireSquare]

Oh I know, but suggesting balance is not bad advice. Farke is not beyond reproach by any means. The jury is still out on his ability at this level.

We're football fans, I'm not sure balance ever comes into it

[YorkshireSquare]

James was our best forward at the Emirates

Piroe & Gnonto produced nothing going forward.

Poor descisions from him though, not as much time to think in the Premier League. He's coming off an injury too, sure he will get up to speed. People mark him out as a Premier League faliure but he was as productive as anyone else in that Manchester United side.