The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 15th April) - Has Farke Finally Done Enough to Silence the Doubters?

[CHAPELALLMAN]

interesting that some believe they can distinguish between " doubts " and " unfair criticism that you have no real insight into " thereby inferring that they have the right kind of insight to arbitrate on who qualifies for giving valid insights in the first place !

Maybe a table can be created, rationing people to a quota of X no of opinions per week according to where they rate in terms of their " competence to offer insights. " I mean, who has the authority to deem who has valid insights and who doesn't ? It sounds like plain controlling behaviour to me, being passed off as some kind of a ( rather sanctimonious ) virtue. All opinions ultimately are subjective ones, and only hindsight will reveal whether those opinions were on the mark or not. As far as I know, none of us work inside the club, and listen and watch what the manager, board, staff and players say and do on a daily basis.

In reality, most people who offer opinions turn out with hindsight to have got some things right and some things wrong. For example, those who called for Tanaka to be used more often look increasingly look like they made the right call. Time will tell though.

It's a sport isn't it, and ultimately a bit of fun ? Interesting though how on a forum like this to discuss nothing more than a sport, controlling behaviour starts to creep in, so that some people try to dictate who should offer an opinion or not. And then if you are not the right kind of person, it's fine to shadow and hound that person on the forum, to the extent that they have to filter you to stop the harassment. And of course this is based on their own subjectivity, not some kind of objective fact.

It's actually quite an interesting insight into human psychology....IMO though what seems like just harmless nonsense is the thin end of an insidious wedge, as away from the world of entertainment and sport some might take the same attitude to people offering opinions on politics or current affairs, as they " don't have the correct insight " to do so. In places such as Russia, China and North Korea citizens can go about their everyday lives without state interference, just as long as they don't discuss or offer any opinions on politics, which they are clearly not qualified or well enough informed about to do.

[Irish Ian]

Hurzeler,areola howe emery ,obviously pep,Arteta can't think his name palace manager.
I suppose if you have 100million + most can be decent managers I suppose.
As I say the 2nd season is harder than the 1st I guess cos they all know how you play that's why you have to evolve which is where I think he will fall down possible.

Fair enough, I suppose having a big name manager might make it easier to persuade higher skilled players to take a punt on us.

I know what you mean about the second season, the Blunts had that season with the wide attacking CBs mixing things up then one of them injured and the whole thing unraveled because they had been worked out.

Farkes style ghas evolved twice already in my eyes so let's see what he comes up with.

If we stay up.

[Irish Ian]

Sigh.

[whiteinfrance]

Sigh.

I'll call your sigh and raise you a tired yawn!

[BlackHillsPaul]

The Man City match at the end of November changed a lot of opinions. Including mine. Up until then nothing was working, and I and many others were calling for Farke to be sacked. But when he went to the 3-5-2 at halftime it was like our squad was made to play that way. And everything changed! We conceded a late goal to lose that match 3-2 but you could feel it. And 4 days later we came out and whipped Chelsea at Elland Road 3-1.

Over the course of the season we have seen some other tweaks in the system. Mostly going to a 3-4-2-1 in the last couple of months. Which has made us tougher to play against. We have conceded more than 1 goal only 3 times. Away to Newcastle, home to Arsenal, and away to Chelsea. We have also started seeing earlier subs. Which has been a major complaint during Farke's tenure.

As for Farke's future, it will be interesting to see what happens next season. Can we recruit some better players that will still "buy in" to DF's methods? If so, then I think the club will progress. But that buy in is key. Because we have seen Manager's dropped into situations where they are out of their depth. Jesse Marsch is an obvious example. But also the likes of David Moyes and Thomas Frank. And many others.

[BlackHillsPaul]

Fair enough, I suppose having a big name manager might make it easier to persuade higher skilled players to take a punt on us.

I know what you mean about the second season, the Blunts had that season with the wide attacking CBs mixing things up then one of them injured and the whole thing unraveled because they had been worked out.

Farkes style ghas evolved twice already in my eyes so let's see what he comes up with.

If we stay up.

Yes, and this is the most pleasantly surprising thing. He finely started to change things up with the Man City match in November.

[Irish Ian]

The Man City match at the end of November changed a lot of opinions. Including mine. Up until then nothing was working, and I and many others were calling for Farke to be sacked. But when he went to the 3-5-2 at halftime it was like our squad was made to play that way. And everything changed! We conceded a late goal to lose that match 3-2 but you could feel it. And 4 days later we came out and whipped Chelsea at Elland Road 3-1.

Over the course of the season we have seen some other tweaks in the system. Mostly going to a 3-4-2-1 in the last couple of months. Which has made us tougher to play against. We have conceded more than 1 goal only 3 times. Away to Newcastle, home to Arsenal, and away to Chelsea. We have also started seeing earlier subs. Which has been a major complaint during Farke's tenure.

As for Farke's future, it will be interesting to see what happens next season. Can we recruit some better players that will still "buy in" to DF's methods? If so, then I think the club will progress. But that buy in is key. Because we have seen Manager's dropped into situations where they are out of their depth. Jesse Marsch is an obvious example. But also the likes of David Moyes and Thomas Frank. And many others.

When I saw went to see them play Milan and was reflecting on the signings I had an inkling that he would use 3CBs at some point.

I think for one thing him being saddled with the likes of Harrison tempted him to at l ast try to stick with his usual principles,then we had a pretty ok start to the season before the creativity disappeared.

Thankfully he found something that has given us threat.

Long may it last.

[weasel]

When I saw went to see them play Milan and was reflecting on the signings I had an inkling that he would use 3CBs at some point.

I think for one thing him being saddled with the likes of Harrison tempted him to at l ast try to stick with his usual principles,then we had a pretty ok start to the season before the creativity disappeared.

Thankfully he found something that has given us threat.

Long may it last.

Indeed. People look back using hindsight to suggest the changes should have been made. Yet in the match against Everton, our first match of the season Bijol was suspended and DCL, having only just signed, wasn't deemed fit enough to even make the bench, and James Justin I don't think had even signed. Would it really have made sense to start the season with a 532 given that we only had Struyjk, Rodon and injury prone Bornauw as the centreback options, we didn't have a target man and we had 4 wingers in Dan James, Willy Gnonto, Ramizanni and Harrison all fit and in the squad. Plus we also won the match.

DCL didn't make his first start until the 4th match. We'd amasses 4 points from 3 matches by that point, including a decent draw v Newcastle which also saw us get a clean sheet, our 2nd clean sheet in the opening 3 matches. So no real need at that point to change the defensive formation. By the 4th match (v Fulham) both Dan James and Willy Gnonto, who both started v Everton, had dropped to the bench which would suggest Farke had changes in mind.

So fast forward and after 6 matches we had 8 points and were sitting 11th. 6 goals scored, so not great but we'd got 5 of those in the last 2 matches so the attack was beginning to fire. 9 goals conceded but 5 of those were v Arsenal so in the main we were reasonably solid.

So 6 matches in and I don't really recall much in the way of an uprising against Farke's formation.

Matches 7 and 8 saw defeats. First a 2-1 defeat to Spurs despite us having a 1.66 xg compared to their 0.52 xg. 16 shots to their 9 more possesion etc. So the 7th match agains saw no real reason to rip up the formation. The 8th match was the disappointing loss to Burnley. Again though it was an anomaly in terms of xg 1.68 to 0.45 in our favour and shots 19 to 4 in our favour. So the result was bad but nothing overly wrong with the actual gameplan and formation.

Match 9 saw us beat West Ham. This meant we had 11 points from 9 matches and were in 13th place. So match 9 has come and still no reason to change formation. Again this match saw us have a much healthier xg than the opposition (1.58 to 0.63) but this time, unlike the previous 2 matches, it saw us win.

Matches 10,11 and 12 saw us lose 3 in a row and drop below the point per match average for the first time. Match 13 Farke clearly decided at half time enough was enough and changed formation. Likely something he had been at the very least contemplating doing earlier but had seen no real need to prior to match 10.

[Carrick Dave]

Indeed. People look back using hindsight to suggest the changes should have been made. Yet in the match against Everton, our first match of the season Bijol was suspended and DCL, having only just signed, wasn't deemed fit enough to even make the bench, and James Justin I don't think had even signed. Would it really have made sense to start the season with a 532 given that we only had Struyjk, Rodon and injury prone Bornauw as the centreback options, we didn't have a target man and we had 4 wingers in Dan James, Willy Gnonto, Ramizanni and Harrison all fit and in the squad. Plus we also won the match.

DCL didn't make his first start until the 4th match. We'd amasses 4 points from 3 matches by that point, including a decent draw v Newcastle which also saw us get a clean sheet, our 2nd clean sheet in the opening 3 matches. So no real need at that point to change the defensive formation. By the 4th match (v Fulham) both Dan James and Willy Gnonto, who both started v Everton, had dropped to the bench which would suggest Farke had changes in mind.

So fast forward and after 6 matches we had 8 points and were sitting 11th. 6 goals scored, so not great but we'd got 5 of those in the last 2 matches so the attack was beginning to fire. 9 goals conceded but 5 of those were v Arsenal so in the main we were reasonably solid.

So 6 matches in and I don't really recall much in the way of an uprising against Farke's formation.

Matches 7 and 8 saw defeats. First a 2-1 defeat to Spurs despite us having a 1.66 xg compared to their 0.52 xg. 16 shots to their 9 more possesion etc. So the 7th match agains saw no real reason to rip up the formation. The 8th match was the disappointing loss to Burnley. Again though it was an anomaly in terms of xg 1.68 to 0.45 in our favour and shots 19 to 4 in our favour. So the result was bad but nothing overly wrong with the actual gameplan and formation.

Match 9 saw us beat West Ham. This meant we had 11 points from 9 matches and were in 13th place. So match 9 has come and still no reason to change formation. Again this match saw us have a much healthier xg than the opposition (1.58 to 0.63) but this time, unlike the previous 2 matches, it saw us win.

Matches 10,11 and 12 saw us lose 3 in a row and drop below the point per match average for the first time. Match 13 Farke clearly decided at half time enough was enough and changed formation. Likely something he had been at the very least contemplating doing earlier but had seen no real need to prior to match 10.

Very interesting analysis Weasel, particularly in relation to game by game shots ratio, Xg and achievement relative to the point per game target.

Hard to argue against the facts sometimes.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

I am one of them ,I am not convinced he is a good premiership manager but he is a very positive person within the team and makes them positive.
I think he will keep his job at the end of season so long as he keeps us up ,but I still think a lot depends on how we start next season because as we all know to well the 2nd season is tough ,being a devil's advocate there are going to be a few managers moving around at the end of season .

Careful - you'll become a target of the MOT thought police for having views like that. Better to repent immediately and toe the line ...

[Johnsie123]

just an opinion, who knows In the world of football directors/owners,tbh I was expecting a barrage of messages saying I am a nutter and he is the best manager since Revie