Cellino now NOT willing to sell to LFU

[The Subhuman]

Well, picking a good manager and having some stability are surely one of the most important things and he hasn't managed either. He has got the wrong guy every time and/or can't work with a manager. All his failings.

but he successfully run a small town club against the odds in Serie A...so we know he can do it.

[Crude]

Can't see fan ownership really working in England. It does work very well for the NFL giants, the Green Bay Packers, but they may be the exception, and not the rule. The Packers have money for players, keep the best QB in the league under contract, and are off to another great season. But based on past attempts, rumors and such... this could be a bigger disaster than our relegation from the Prem, and later on under Bates down to League One, admininstration......

There are some people (more knowledgeable of the details) who think this is the start of something great, but I'm just not seeing it yet.

[Genghers]

Can't see fan ownership really working in England. It does work very well for the NFL giants, the Green Bay Packers, but they may be the exception, and not the rule. The Packers have money for players, keep the best QB in the league under contract, and are off to another great season. But based on past attempts, rumors and such... this could be a bigger disaster than our relegation from the Prem, and later on under Bates down to League One, admininstration......

There are some people (more knowledgeable of the details) who think this is the start of something great, but I'm just not seeing it yet.

Hearts, Barca, Real Madrid and Swansea... None of them doing so badly! I know they all may be exceptions, but clearly it can work.

[Genghers]

LFU apparently trying to negotiate an exclusivity period.

The Cortese rumour is encouraging - it's not like we had credible investors queuing up the last two times. For all his detractors, Cellino has certainly sorted out the financial mess we were in, if not the results.

[lufc1304]

LFU apparently trying to negotiate an exclusivity period.

The Cortese rumour is encouraging - it's not like we had credible investors queuing up the last two times. For all his detractors, Cellino has certainly sorted out the financial mess we were in, if not the results.

Agree that Cellino is to be applauded for sorting out the Bates/GFH financial labyrinth. A straightforward set of books is bound to make any potential takeover move more smoothly. And may attract the right sort of investor, such as Cortese. If that rumour has any substance? Phil Hay commenting on it would suggest it is has, as he's usually not far off the mark

[becchio bear]

Hearts, Barca, Real Madrid and Swansea... None of them doing so badly! I know they all may be exceptions, but clearly it can work.

Crude did say England though....

[lufc1304]

Unless LFU have some serious financial muscle on board, this bid is doomed, imo. You need seriously deep pockets to run a football club, do we have any hint as to where the cash is coming from?

[barryanorak]

Although I accept they are not in England, aren't Bayern Munich owned by a fan based co-operative?

Or did I dream that?

[mav]

Fan ownership could work, but only if the fan ownership was limited to electing a board each AGM and letting the board get on with it.

As for MC selling? he has said he will not make any profit, that could be read as gets back what he has paid, or (as I assume is correct) getting back every single Penny he had paid out.

I am guessing the later is a great deal larger than the former.

I am guessing this is just an exercise in PR for MC.

[Gandalf]

Although I accept they are not in England, aren't Bayern Munich owned by a fan based co-operative?

Or did I dream that?

All German top flight clubs (and Swedish ones for that matter) have 51% fan based ownership.

[danhirons]

Someone mentioned swansea as being fan-owned.

Well fans own 20% of the shares - I don't really see much point in it to be honest, and you can hardly put the success of the club down to that minority shareholding.

Other fan ownerships aren't really fan owned - there's a wealthy backer behind them, who effectively owns the club.

Barcelona and Real Madrid are exceptions because of their huge earning potential in terms of TV revenue (the TV deals in spain are done independently with each club as opposed to the leagues as a whole), ticket sales etc.

Really hope we don't end up fan owned.

[weasel]

Real Madrid also have the royal family and banks on side and with them and Barca having approximately 100,000 fans per home match along with other revenue then they really aren't comparable to us - even if we do wear the same colour kit as Real Madrid.

Where Leeds are it simply wouldn't work as the cost to buy the club is way to high for a fans group to buy without significant benefactors which then means it isn't really fans with equal votes etc if 1 fan has put in £1000 and another 'fan' has put in £10m.

Take as an example 100,000 fans all having an equal say. It would cost each fan £300 just to raise £30m to potentially buy the club (and it could cost significantly more than £30m). So that is £300 each and there is still the issue of buying players, paying the rent on TA and ER (let's not even go down the route of buying these back yet). So the fans have forked out £300 each to have an equal say but there is no money to do anything and we don't even know whether the club would break even financially.

So let's say that 100,000 fans have all stumped up £300 and MC has agreed to sell for £30m, GFH and all debts have also disappeared and it is now time to improve the team. Let's spend £10m on players so 100,000 fans stump up £100 each. The club continues to languish mid table so it's time to invest again. A lot of the 100,000 fans have had enough and start selling their shares at a loss. Kenneth Bates (or insert any other shady businessman) starts snapping up these shares and suddenly the fans don't own the club any more.

The only real way of fans owning a club is if the initial cost is fairly minimal, not £30m+ to buy the club and not with other huge debts (ER & TA rent) on top.

Yes fan ownership could work if the club got promoted very quickly after the takeover, without much investment, and had the premiership money to negate the need for any outside investment but that is easier said than done.

[The Subhuman]

Real Madrid also have the royal family and banks on side and with them and Barca having approximately 100,000 fans per home match along with other revenue then they really aren't comparable to us - even if we do wear the same colour kit as Real Madrid.

Where Leeds are it simply wouldn't work as the cost to buy the club is way to high for a fans group to buy without significant benefactors which then means it isn't really fans with equal votes etc if 1 fan has put in £1000 and another 'fan' has put in £10m.

Take as an example 100,000 fans all having an equal say. It would cost each fan £300 just to raise £30m to potentially buy the club (and it could cost significantly more than £30m). So that is £300 each and there is still the issue of buying players, paying the rent on TA and ER (let's not even go down the route of buying these back yet). So the fans have forked out £300 each to have an equal say but there is no money to do anything and we don't even know whether the club would break even financially.

So let's say that 100,000 fans have all stumped up £300 and MC has agreed to sell for £30m, GFH and all debts have also disappeared and it is now time to improve the team. Let's spend £10m on players so 100,000 fans stump up £100 each. The club continues to languish mid table so it's time to invest again. A lot of the 100,000 fans have had enough and start selling their shares at a loss. Kenneth Bates (or insert any other shady businessman) starts snapping up these shares and suddenly the fans don't own the club any more.

The only real way of fans owning a club is if the initial cost is fairly minimal, not £30m+ to buy the club and not with other huge debts (ER & TA rent) on top.

Yes fan ownership could work if the club got promoted very quickly after the takeover, without much investment, and had the premiership money to negate the need for any outside investment but that is easier said than done.

we've been trying to do it for what 12/13 years and here's the thing it will cost more to "buy" a place in the premiership in the future starting next season

[The Subhuman]

Do we have about half a million fans..I suppose it could be as high as 20% of the fan base stump up for shares

[danhirons]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34715421

so they scrape together 30 million, put the club into debt, and then.....where does money come from to run the club or to buy new players etc.etc.etc.

idiotic - but hoping I am somehow proved wrong if it does go ahead, not that I see it going ahead

[weasel]

Put bluntly it reads

1) We won't get anywhere near enough from Leeds fans
2) We will then seek investment from businessmen who say they are Leeds fans (hello Mike Farnam)
3) We will then get people to invest in debt free loans (presumably giving these people places on the board with exorbitant salaries instead and offering to pay them back a lot more if we get to the premiership)
4) We will then beg for money from anyone willing to invest.

Forget the idea that it is Leeds fans taking over. They simply are brokers who will look to have a minotiry stake after it is all concluded and a token say on anything.

[becchio bear]

Put bluntly it reads

1) We won't get anywhere near enough from Leeds fans
2) We will then seek investment from businessmen who say they are Leeds fans (hell Mike Farnam)
3) We will then get people to invest in debt free loans (presumably giving these people places on the board with exorbitant salaries instead and offering to pay them back a lot more if we get to the premiership)
4) We will then beg for money from anyone willing to invest.

Forget the idea that it is Leeds fans taking over. They simply are brokers who will look to have a minotiry stake after it is all concluded and a token say on anything.

That's more or less what I was thinking Weasel. Sounds dire. I hope Cellino stays, he's a maverick for sure but he's done more good than bad imo. The fans wanting him gone should be careful what they wish for.

[The Subhuman]

Mike Farnan would be a step down ....

[gessa]

Mike Farnan would be a step down ....

Agree. Something about him I don't like or trust.

[The Subhuman]

Agree. Something about him I don't like or trust.

Think I'd rather have Ken back, not GFH that's going too far they're just evil