Stoke City v Leeds Utd Match Thread

[1964white]

Bad to to be making my first post after such a tough day, but Hello everyone!


Tough game today at the end of a tough week. I hope the social media / media war surrounding Spygate wont affect the players. I know some have got involved on twitter and while I admire their loyalty I personally I hope they are advised to ignore the hype and do the talking on the pitch.


Been looking at the game stats for the season so far. Loads of possession, passing accuracy high, lots of shots from outside the box too. From the games I have saw we don't seem to have a clean striker of the ball. Can be just the ticket when the oppo play so tight at the back. .... Also a big target man would help as well.... Bielsa says that players wont come in unless they are better than what we have, I get that but at the same time maybe a different player type will help..

Two weeks to strengthen the squad in what is our biggest season in almost two decades.

Re today:

The Boss announced the side on Thursday which just confirmed to Stoke that Leeds were going to play the same way as against Derby. Away from home things could do with being a bit different. Keep possession yes, but there are ways to do that and at the same time play risk free football, it can quieten the home crowd too which can help over 90 minutes.

Stoke away from home as always been a tough gig, thankfully Sheff Utd and Norwich have to go there too.

How many points does everyone reckon we need to secure promotion?

And Yay! Swansea beat Sheff Utd!!!

Welcome to MOT Ian

[The Subhuman]

Welcome White Riot, big shoes to fill there as we had a great poster called that back in the day. Think we miss Beradi's ability to bring the ball out quickly and incisively. It's the weak part of Pontus' game for me. I also think Beradi is the best right back at the club.

We're never, nor should we, go 442 unless we're chasing a game late. So Bamford returning would demote Roofe to the bench and I don't think Bamford. as good a finisher as he seems to be, moves as well as Roofe. He'll create less space for others and to be honest in a full season Roofe is headed for 30 goals.

Some think Roofe would make a good number 10, I disagree with this somewhat, he's not a player that can deal with the physicality that position deals with. Some say he'd make a good winger, possibly but we'd lose the goals while not getting that many assists I feel.

You may argue a fresh Kemar Roofe off the bench with 20 to go gives us a weapon. Again there's no proof or reason to suppose Roofe is a game changer off the bench, I don't think he's scored many as a sub in fact looking at the stats it 1 goal in 20 substitute appearances, now I know he gives a lot more than goals but chasing games you really need goal threat

[The Subhuman]

I honestly think it's either or with Roofe/Bamford.

[leic white 63]

Good Morning guys,

First post on this forum, but I've been following the match threads for a while. A big thank-you for all the streaming links as I'm living abroad and unable to get to matches.

I've watched most matches this season and think this is our best season for many years. Bielsa is a miracle worker, but at times I think he's naive in his honesty, e.g. spygate, posting the teamsheet days before a match, it gives others an insight (like Nathan Jones) that they don't need to earn and they're able to use against us.

As great as we were against Derby, I thought we were the opposite against Stoke. Stoke looked a poor side to me, if you set out your stall to put 11 behind the ball at home, and then just hope for a goal on the break, set-piece or a mistake, then God help you if you're a home supporter watching that kind of dross.

As a team we were poor yesterday and seemed really devoid of any sense of urgency, or ideas to break them down. Individually I thought nobody played well for us. I agree with other posters that if we get the first goal our plan seems to work, but if the game is turned into a war of attrition (Birmingham, Blackburn, Hull, Stoke, etc) we just get frustrated and the opposition seem to thrive off time wasting and winding our players up. That's Phillips and Jansson sent off in the last two away games. Questionable refereeing, but dissent doesn't help our cause either, and its worrying that we're picking up cards so frequently.

We definitely need someone to make us tick in centre midfield, we seemed to just take ages to get the ball advanced yesterday and pose a threat before they got their bus parked again. I do think we need an aerial threat up front and some more creativity around the final third. This will probably come from Brown and Bamford when they're fit. I lost count of the times yesterday when we had Harrison (don't rate him at all), Pablo, Clarke, etc, trying to dribble past two or three players and then losing the ball, and the odd time we were getting a cross in nobody was in the box, or Roofe was up against their big lumps.

I think we will be more of a force when all our players are back fit. I expect we will get promoted automatically, but as things are it will be a rocky road and we could quite easily be looking for a win in the last match at Ipswich to go up. A few more sharp recruits in the next week could really help to give us some impetus and more of a threat. Our first team are generally safe in their places, due to soem great performances over the season, and a lack of competition and I felt this really showed yesterday.

Very frustrating day yesterday, but hopefully we learn from it, as we need to get something from these types of games.

totally agree fella.

[Cjay]

Cooper was poor but he wasn't the only one !

Tbf that was a comment made during the game

[Cjay]

No one did deserved a rating of 7/10 yesterday including your loved one Ali who I did think was one of our better players.

Ayling produced more going forward than any of our midfielders including young Jack Clarke, the lad needs to learn how to defend if he is looking for a regular start down the flanks

Aliiiiii

Ayling had 1 header mate, he created 1 shooting opportunity, thats it.

Jack wasnt great but thought he wasn't used well, Ayling and others were guilty of giving him the ball to late or just ignoring him when in good positions imo.

Young lad, will learn, agree on the defending bit.

[Cjay]

Is it just me who can see why Jansson walked?

For a start if he kept his gob shut he wouldn't have got the first booking in the first place.

The 2nd was harsh since he slipped but if you watch he caught Afobe right foot, it was that which caused the heavy touch that allowed BPF to claim, without that touch Afobe was through.

Harsh but i can see why.

[danhirons]

Just to reiterate

Pontus booking issued because he questioned a free-kick given against Klich on the edge of the box that wasn't, Peacock-Farrell made a very good a save

Another free-kick given in a dangerous area after a Stoke player flew in the air like a salmon almost into the Leeds end with no contact whatsoever.

Four yellow cards issued immediately to Leeds players without any leniency that he gave to the Stoke players

Hernandez tripped in the box, if it wasn't a penalty why didn't he book Pablo as he was happy to wave yellow cards like confetti prior to that incident

Pontus falls over after being outrun by Afobe, harsh sending off especially when you compare it to the Harrison incident at Forest a couple of weeks ago

pontus shouted in the refs face - definite yellow

can't remember this

can't remember exactly who got the yellows but jansson's were justified as was forshaw's for pulling back a stoke player and hernandez's was a blatant yellow

hernandez was miles outside the box - looked a dive to me and probably should have been booked for it (we're lucky he wasn't)

pontus fouled him through on goal - by falling over on accident or not, it doesn't matter

also related to some of the other posts - ayling was awful yesterday (gave the ball away an insane amount of times), ali wasn't much better but great finish for the goal.

[White Riot]

Welcome to the forum WR

Thanks 1964white, great to be here

[White Riot]

totally agree fella.

Cheers mate, it would've been great to get a win after this spygate crap all week, most of these pundits just seem to jump on the bandwagon to stick the knife in.
I already hate Lampard now, such a tool

[White Riot]

Welcome White Riot, big shoes to fill there as we had a great poster called that back in the day. Think we miss Beradi's ability to bring the ball out quickly and incisively. It's the weak part of Pontus' game for me. I also think Beradi is the best right back at the club.

We're never, nor should we, go 442 unless we're chasing a game late. So Bamford returning would demote Roofe to the bench and I don't think Bamford. as good a finisher as he seems to be, moves as well as Roofe. He'll create less space for others and to be honest in a full season Roofe is headed for 30 goals.

Some think Roofe would make a good number 10, I disagree with this somewhat, he's not a player that can deal with the physicality that position deals with. Some say he'd make a good winger, possibly but we'd lose the goals while not getting that many assists I feel.

You may argue a fresh Kemar Roofe off the bench with 20 to go gives us a weapon. Again there's no proof or reason to suppose Roofe is a game changer off the bench, I don't think he's scored many as a sub in fact looking at the stats it 1 goal in 20 substitute appearances, now I know he gives a lot more than goals but chasing games you really need goal threat

Cheers mate, I will post to the best of my ability. Yes, Roofe is having a great season, but I meant more that we need options from the bench when things aren't working against these bus parking teams. I remember the game at Hudds last year when Brown looked very classy, so he can spark some creativity (whenever he's fit). I think Bamford's a good un, and has looked useful in the odd run out he's had this year. So having them to turn to would be a nice option. Roofe had no service yesterday, and in general they all seemed very flat.

I noticed our movement off the ball wasn't as it was earlier in the season. Phillips is defo a miss, and he and Berardi can provide some bite. Rothers will park the bus, but we should be able to see them off. Norwich will be tough, but we are more than capable of beating them at home.

[1964white]

Aliiiiii

Ayling had 1 header mate, he created 1 shooting opportunity, thats it.

Jack wasnt great but thought he wasn't used well, Ayling and others were guilty of giving him the ball to late or just ignoring him when in good positions imo.

Young lad, will learn, agree on the defending bit.

That's more than some created

Ayling drove into the box beating two men unlucky not to find a man with his pass, he also beat their full-back during that 2nd half period only for his cross to find no one. So unlucky with his header denied by a world class save.

Yes his passing was not great but he wasn't the only one who committed so many errors

[Cjay]

Some think Roofe would make a good number 10, I disagree with this somewhat, he's not a player that can deal with the physicality that position deals with.

Just on that bit slightly confused.

Imo Roofe would make a number 10, thats where he played at Oxford after all.

Good number 10s find space, they avoid physical battles largely because they are allowed to roam.

As a lone front man Roofe cant do that as much, his movement is limited somewhat by his role.

As we saw yesterday and as you say, Roofe isnt a physical battle sort of guy, he tries his best but simple logic tells us a 5ft10 10 stone Roofe is going to struggle against a 6ft5 14stone cb physically.

We've seen that before when teams set up like Stoke did, if Roofe hasnt room to move he really struggles.

Imo hed have more freedom to find space as a 10.

[Cjay]

That's more than some created

Ayling drove into the box beating two men unlucky not to find a man with his pass, he also beat their full-back during that 2nd half period only for his cross to find no one. So unlucky with his header denied by a world class save.

Yes his passing was not great but he wasn't the only one who committed so many errors

No he wasnt.

But its a common theme with Ayling, its been a theme his entire time here.

He gives his all and runs a lot but his end product is dire, especially in the final 3rd it all goes to pot.

4 assists in 90 games for a full back as attacking as him shows that. Charlie Taylor played a similar amount of games for us got twice the assists and 4 times the goals, thats the difference between a player who gives his all and one with actual quality in the final 3rd imo.

He isnt the biggest problem atm but he certainly shouldn't be immune and he seems to be for some reason.

[1964white]

Tbf that was a comment made during the game

Tbf I was thinking the same during the game

[1964white]

4 assists in 90 games for a full back as attacking as him shows that.

Have to say that stat isn't good

[The Subhuman]

Just on that bit slightly confused.

Imo Roofe would make a number 10, thats where he played at Oxford after all.

Good number 10s find space, they avoid physical battles largely because they are allowed to roam.

As a lone front man Roofe cant do that as much, his movement is limited somewhat by his role.

As we saw yesterday and as you say, Roofe isnt a physical battle sort of guy, he tries his best but simple logic tells us a 5ft10 10 stone Roofe is going to struggle against a 6ft5 14stone cb physically.

We've seen that before when teams set up like Stoke did, if Roofe hasnt room to move he really struggles.

Imo hed have more freedom to find space as a 10.

As a classic number 10 I agree, playing high alongside and off a "number 9" ...as a Saiz/Pablo type I'm afraid he'd struggle with all, those nipping tackles you get at that position. Can you really see him do the job Saiz did? Oxford a division or two down ain't LUFC top of the Championship, not by a long chalk.

He'd need to be a 10 in a 442 or 352 with the AMF still in place

[Cjay]

Have to say that stat isn't good

Exactly, ask yourself, what is Aylings standout quality?

Energy? Thats pretty weak, anyone can be fit.

[Cjay]

As a classic number 10 I agree, playing high alongside and off a "number 9" ...as a Saiz/Pablo type I'm afraid he'd struggle with all, those nipping tackles you get at that position. Can you really see him do the job Saiz did? Oxford a division or two down ain't LUFC top of the Championship, not by a long chalk.

He'd need to be a 10 in a 442 or 352 with the AMF still in place

Fair point, he doesnt have the pace of Saiz or the vision of Pablo.

But he has shown he can do decent things in tight areas and an ability to take up intelligent positions.

Saiz was downright average for most of his career till he was the age Roofe is now.

Theres time for Roofe to learn that Saiz role.

[The Subhuman]

Fair point, he doesnt have the pace of Saiz or the vision of Pablo.

But he has shown he can do decent things in tight areas and an ability to take up intelligent positions.

Saiz was downright average for most of his career till he was the age Roofe is now.

Theres time for Roofe to learn that Saiz role.

Time maybe for him but not for us. Too late to learn a new position this year, we can't afford no production from our number 10 for the dozen games it would take to adjust. Always assuming he can play that position to start with.