The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 4th Mar)

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning Everyone

Should Leeds get promoted to the Promised Land, one player that may be on their short list (according to the tabloids) is Liverpool Forward Harry Wilson.

Leeds wanted the 21yo last Summer, but Derby offered the reds 3m to take the youngster on a seasons long loan.

In hindsight, should Leeds have matched the 3m?

Wilson has scored 11 goals with 3 assists over 31 league and Cup games this season so far.

Talking about Derby, Villa hammered them 4-0 at the weekend. 4-0 that's the kind of results dreams are made of - we'll come back to that shortly!

Derby lie in 7th placed, 3 points and a worse goal difference then Bristol City!





Even the most hardened of Leeds fans would not have dreamt of Friday nights scoreline! (Well, maybe one!)

It was a display with all the skill, and especially the intensity that we probably have not seen since the beginning of the season (well, maybe Derby)!

Did Leeds deserve the stick they got from the fans after the QPR game?

Should fans be able to vent their display in any way they want on social media platforms following a bad display?

Does it make them / us hypocrites when all is forgiven days later following a good result?

[HarryofOz]

Hi EB et al

Harry has a great name, but his goal scoring record is nothing special

Derby doing a Derby, going well for most of the season before falling away.

I have no problems with fans criticising a particularly bad performance. I do have a problem with exaggerating how bad our players are. Not that my having a problem with it means that it shouldn't be allowed. I just find it irritating and boring. Especially in a season where we have done really well.

[Chilli D]

Morning EB1 and All,

Harry Wilson looks a quality player from what I've seen of him especially on set pieces.
So we missed out on both him and Harvey Barnes last summer if the reports are true.

I think the feeling was more of disappointment rather than anger after the QPR game, certainly on this forum.
You will always get the keyboard warriors with their ridiculous comments, laughable at times, but I just ignore them for what they are.
Thankfully this forum doesn't have them.
We're always entitled to our opinions and I enjoy reading other people's on here whether I agree with them or not.
I said after the QPR game that for the first time this season I thought we were destined for the play offs but after Friday my faith is restored.
Eleven massive games left....bring it on.

Chilli

[weasel]

Should Leeds get promoted to the Promised Land, one player that may be on their short list (according to the tabloids) is Liverpool Forward Harry Wilson.

Leeds wanted the 21yo last Summer, but Derby offered the reds 3m to take the youngster on a seasons long loan.

In hindsight, should Leeds have matched the 3m?

Wilson has scored 11 goals with 3 assists over 31 league and Cup games this season so far.

Certainly looks a good player albeit I haven't seen much of Derby this season. On paper you'd certainly have wanted him or Harvey Barnes in the team but equally no guarantee they would have fitted in and had the right attitude that Bielsa demands. Easy to compare and say Jack Harrison hasn't done as well but it looks like Harrison is getting better every game whereas Wilson may start flagging and Barnes obviously returned to Leicester. Long term I wouldn't be surprised if Harrison doesn't become the best of the three. Wilson may be one of those players that is a good championship player but not good enough for the premiership. We will be linked with every Tom, Dick and Harry and I still expect that any signings will be out of the blue.

Talking about Derby, Villa hammered them 4-0 at the weekend. 4-0 that's the kind of results dreams are made of - we'll come back to that shortly!
Derby lie in 7th placed, 3 points and a worse goal difference then Bristol City!

They certainly seem to be stuttering badly. You wonder how good team spirit is when you have a manager who's answers to problems is simply to try to loan players from his mates or sign players he has played with before but are past their prime. All that getting an ex player with a big name guarantees is that you might get some decent players on loan as he gets favours, doesn't guarantee anything else. Contrast him to Bielsa who only got 1 loan signing from a mate and didn't go around using his contacts but simply made all existing players much better. It shows how important the right manager can be.

Even the most hardened of Leeds fans would not have dreamt of Friday nights scoreline! (Well, maybe one!)

It was a display with all the skill, and especially the intensity that we probably have not seen since the beginning of the season (well, maybe Derby)!

Did Leeds deserve the stick they got from the fans after the QPR game?

Definitely the team didn't deserve the criticism. The players are not robots or a computer program. Football is played by humans and so human error, such as missing a goal, happens and goals massively change matches and performances. Equally you cannot expect the team to turn in a great performance every match, it is not because they don't want to but sometimes things just don't click. If the players hadn't given their all against QPR then fine give them stick but they were battling away right to the end trying in vain to make something work.

Should fans be able to vent their display in any way they want on social media platforms following a bad display?

No. There has to be limits and people have to be realistic as to their expectations and reactions. Thankfully we have a manager that sees the whole picture and doesn't get too down after a bad result or too euphoric after a good result. He knows that the bad performance isn't always as bad as the result can suggest and equally the good result can sometimes be massively helped by just 1 or 2 things going the right way, Pablo's shot flies wide or straight at the keeper, the WBA free kick hits the wall and loops into the net and it can be a different story. Bielsa relies on stats, namely that we created more chances, when analysing performances as certain things he and the team has no control over.

Does it make them / us hypocrites when all is forgiven days later following a good result?

It is almost like we are all manic/depressive, the players are all the worst to ever wear the shirt after a bad performance and suddenly what a team after a good performance. It is a rollercoaster ride, we aren't a Man City/Barcelona type side who will sweep sides away most weeks. Great performances usually come earlier in the season when results aren't as vital.

[1964white]

Wouldn't be much of a forum if we were all nicey nicey about poor performances

[1964white]

It is almost like we are all manic/depressive, the players are all the worst to ever wear the shirt after a bad performance and suddenly what a team after a good performance. It is a rollercoaster ride, we aren't a Man City/Barcelona type side who will sweep sides away most weeks. Great performances usually come earlier in the season when results aren't as vital.

As with the majority on here I seem to recall you were very critical about LUFC last season

[The Subhuman]

TBF Weasel was only really scathing of Heck's management IIRC...

[The Subhuman]

Heckinbottom 9 points from 3 games so far for Hibs...apropos of absolutely nothing

[1964white]

Heckinbottom 9 points from 3 games so far for Hibs...apropos of absolutely nothing

Really probably won't last

[leic white 63]

imo its only natural to be critical after a poor performance or
maybe some fans are just more passionate than others !
part n parcel of football .

[The Subhuman]

He's has a lot of potential to be a good coach, no chance here IMO due to what had gone before and no transfer window or preseason to help but I understand why the TC truthers would think otherwise. He does have some issues as a manager and that's where I'll leave it as it's a divisive issue long done with now..

Did get beat by Celtic in the cup ..but Celtic I hear are quite a good Scottish team. Not as good as Raith obviously but decent (We went to see Raith every home game while I lived there as a kid, back of my dads BSA, he never did learn to drive)

[Sara]

From what I've seen , Harry Wilson looks like a very talented young player. I'm not sure I would have wanted to pay £3m for a 1 season loan though. Next year in the prem, certainly. His dead ball technique alone can win you games, and he seems to be hard working and have the right attitude.

I wonder if the problem with Lampard is that he never seems to pick the same team twice. Players who have good games are inexplicably dropped, and others who haven't featured for weeks are suddenly starting. Compare and contrast with Marcelo's oft criticised loyalty. Maybe FL is still in the Chelsea mentality of having a huge squad to rotate for different games, or maybe he just doesn't know what he's doing. They have a lot of players out of contract in the summer, I think, so maybe motivation is low; or maybe they're just crap. After all the media hype, and our 'encounter' with Fragile Frank, it would be quite satisfying to see him fail miserably. I still wish we'd pursued him for an apology for the lies he told.

Extreme reactions to results are understandable, but I don't think any of our players can be criticised for lack of effort or ability. They wouldn't be anywhere near the team if MB didn't have faith in them, so they deserve our full support. Yes, criticise particular performances, but there's no need for full scale character assassination.

[Ellandback1]

Afternoon everyone.

This made me cry with laughter....

[weasel]

TBF Weasel was only really scathing of Heck's management IIRC...

Indeed - I was critical because performances were so dire and he appeared clueless. I felt the players were better than they were (although probably didn't think they were as good as Bielsa has made them). Big difference under Bielsa is that even in the 'bad' performances we have statistically done enough so that if we had won the game it wouldn't have been unfair - it isn't like we have lost and had 3 shots whilst the opponents have had 20.

When I managed a team there were several times when we'd win and I would be unhappy with how we'd played. We'd won simply because the opposition was sh*t. Several times where I would have been happier with the performance in a game we'd lost because we were doing the right things so I knew the results would come and I couldn't fault the effort of the players.

The problem I had with Heckingbottom was that the football was so dire but simply looking to hoof it forward was not going to make us a better team and his constant deflection of the blame onto the players was nothing short of disgraceful - all the players that weren't anywhere near good enough last year, according to him, are proving him completely wrong this year.

I was a lot less critical of TC, and yes we put in some awful performances under TC, as I could see a bigger picture. Some of the performances under TC were superb and you could see what he was trying to do. Whether he could have got us going again after the second big slump is certainly open for debate and we will never know. I do however feel that because the way he got us playing was a similar style to how Bielsa has us playing it gave the players a headstart this summer when they had to adapt to Bielsa's way. It also gave Bielsa a headstart as he knew that the players had, albeit briefly, been able to play a similar way to how he wanted. Bielsa though has obviously taken it on several levels.

Bielsa, I feel, is able to separate results from performances. The photo of him, after the QPR game, appeared to me to be of a frustrated figure as again we had done enough to win the match but simply had failed, as in so many matches, to convert our opportunities. For all the QPR performance wasn't great if you threw in a Leeds goal at any point of the match (barring the last few seconds of injury time) then we probably go on to win the match.

[The Subhuman]

Well I didn't want an essay

[1964white]

Afternoon everyone.

This made me cry with laughter....

It is very funny Matt, saw that clip a while ago

Jill & I watch his shows

[weasel]

Well I didn't want an essay

I don't do five word answers!

[The Subhuman]

This is much better, though to be fair it does not mention Leeds ..however it does mention a point we were discussing here recently about racism..

[SG90]

Heckinbottom 9 points from 3 games so far for Hibs...apropos of absolutely nothing

Shows the Championship is far stronger than the SPL then.

[Ellandback1]

Hi EB et al

Harry has a great name, but his goal scoring record is nothing special

Derby doing a Derby, going well for most of the season before falling away.

I have no problems with fans criticising a particularly bad performance. I do have a problem with exaggerating how bad our players are. Not that my having a problem with it means that it shouldn't be allowed. I just find it irritating and boring. Especially in a season where we have done really well.

Morning Harry, the better we do, the higher the expectations. Amazing what Bielsa has done with last years squad!!!!