Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

[Boo Radley]

I couldn’t even write anything here last evening I was so fed up over that loss. If we had played well and lost you could say that it will come right for us but the opposite was true. Our form has declined, teams are nullifying us more easily, the weakness of our squad is becoming more apparent and you wonder how we can get back on track. There is no magic wand to fix this. Even if we had Koch and Llorente back our woes on crosses may not be sorted. Neither have appeared capable of nullifying that threat to date.

If we get dragged into the relegation dogfight then that increases the pressure on players and management alike. It’s not what we are used to under Bielsa and I don’t know how we’d react.

It’s not Bielsa’s style to buy in January (although he may think differently now) so we are really dependent on him plotting our way out of this. Maybe if Klich finds his mojo again and something clicks for Raphinha and Rodrigo we may take off again. For now it is really worrying. Not looking forward to the next few matches now.

[Cjay]

I think part of the problem is teams are starting to match our work rate.

Take away that advantage and it starts to become a battle between 2 sets of players and at this level we are out matched.

[BGwhite]

What a fooking shambles that was
Klich's first penalty attempt summed us up, weak as piss.
There's so much wrong I dunno where to start.

Continually picking Harrison, Alioski and Dallas beggars belief. I haven't seen one decent cross from any of them lately.
A blind man could see that Reece James, Werner and Bowen would have a field day down our left and they did.
We have one natural left-back in Leif Davis who could solve this, so get him on the park.

The absence of Koch and Llorente definitely weakens us defensively, but for many years now, and well before MB, we cannot defend set-pieces and seem to have no clue how to address this. This is compounded by conceding needless free-kicks and corners i.e. Harrison for their first goal. We can't stop people crossing. It's an absolute shambles that every team at any level will exploit e.g. Crawley Town in the Cup.

Our confident pressing and passing with zip seems to have evaporated. Maybe some of these guys just don't believe they belong at this level and they're dead right. We've got Bamford in good form and we can't get the ball to him? Even he typifies that physical weakness/lack of determination, never wins an aerial ball and is shrugged off like a kid. I only saw KP, Ayling and Cooper win any physical battles, we're soft.

Despite their own deficiencies Fulham, WBA, Blunts, Brighton, Nukey, et al, will be able to win physical battles and aerial duels. They'll also take full advantage of our inability to defend set-pieces. When a corner comes in the opposition has a free header every time. We took one corner yesterday that was passed back to Liam Cooper on the halfway line WTF. When we do manage to get a corner/cross over it's usually swallowed up by the goalie, or easily headed out unchallenged by a bank of 5 well marshalled defenders.

I understand we have a lack of quality in the squad, which can only be addressed if we stay up. I was confident that at the least we would stay up comfortably, but don't feel that way any more. We can't do the basics and other teams have sussed this out quickly. The near capitulation against Fulham was the shape of things to come.

That substitution was very wide of the mark, Roberts for Bamford??
Bamford's the only fella putting the ball in the net for us. To add insult to injury, as was the case against Leicester Bielsa overlooks Pablo when the match was crying out for his guile and talent.

Pablo needs to start on Wednesday, along with Leif Davis, and I'd also give Poveda a go.

Rant over

Totally and utterly agree WR. One thing I'd tag on to that regarding Leif , he should've been drafted in last season with the team flying high and confident which makes it a whole lot easier for him but bringing him in now with a deflated team up against it every week is not ideal. I've never been convinced with Bielsas man management and maybe that's his downfall. If has problems with players sort them out privately and move on but not playing our best players because he's been upset by them is just simply childish. We need our best players and Bielsa needs to get over himself.

Sent from my moto g(8) power using Tapatalk

[BGwhite]

No wonder no one wanted Benrahma this summer, he is so greedy and selfish.

I'd sooner have him than not sg.

Sent from my moto g(8) power using Tapatalk

[Cjay]

Bit of an overreaction here imo. Why do we think we're better than West ham? They've had a really good start to the season as well. This season was all about staying up and we're well up at the moment.

Victims of our own early success it seems...

But it's also showing Bielsa is a great manager but not a miracle worker and not without his faults.

Losing is one thing.

The manner of a performance is another.

Not doing the basics, weak in the challenge, far to open etc.

Defeats are expected but not doing the basics isnt.

[Fridge]

I'd sooner have him than not sg.

Sent from my moto g(8) power using Tapatalk

100%

[White Riot]

I think part of the problem is teams are starting to match our work rate.

Take away that advantage and it starts to become a battle between 2 sets of players and at this level we are out matched.

Exactly, I don't believe all this bollocks that we're the fittest team in the world. PL teams are matching us for fitness and the individual players are picking apart our weaknesses with ease.

[White Riot]

Totally and utterly agree WR. One thing I'd tag on to that regarding Leif , he should've been drafted in last season with the team flying high and confident which makes it a whole lot easier for him but bringing him in now with a deflated team up against it every week is not ideal. I've never been convinced with Bielsas man management and maybe that's his downfall. If has problems with players sort them out privately and move on but not playing our best players because he's been upset by them is just simply childish. We need our best players and Bielsa needs to get over himself.

Yeah, not exactly the best time to bring Leif in, but he was thrown in at the deep end at Villa Park and did very well. We'll only know if he's good enough if he's given a chance.

Bielsa should be mature enough to make his point in private and then shake hands and get on with business. The way Jansson, and now Pablo have been treated has damaged the club.

[1964white]

I couldn’t even write anything here last evening I was so fed up over that loss. If we had played well and lost you could say that it will come right for us but the opposite was true. Our form has declined, teams are nullifying us more easily, the weakness of our squad is becoming more apparent and you wonder how we can get back on track. There is no magic wand to fix this. Even if we had Koch and Llorente back our woes on crosses may not be sorted. Neither have appeared capable of nullifying that threat to date.

If we get dragged into the relegation dogfight then that increases the pressure on players and management alike. It’s not what we are used to under Bielsa and I don’t know how we’d react.

It’s not Bielsa’s style to buy in January (although he may think differently now) so we are really dependent on him plotting our way out of this. Maybe if Klich finds his mojo again and something clicks for Raphinha and Rodrigo we may take off again. For now it is really worrying. Not looking forward to the next few matches now.

I felt sick after watching that Boo. I posted up two of the usual topics up & logged off, headed to bed taking my ages to fall asleep

On current form we're already in a relegation dogfight, it's only be a matter of time before the pack close in on us

[Cjay]

Exactly, I don't believe all this bollocks that we're the fittest team in the world. PL teams are matching us for fitness and the individual players are picking apart our weaknesses with ease.

I think we probably are in terms of consistency.

We consistently put in high sprint numbers and pressing.

But other teams are starting to realise if in your 1 game against us you match us in that regard then the individual issues we have can be exploited.

[Irish Ian]

Been a depressing Saturday.

Klich had a very tough job on his hands last night, trying to get used to Rodrigo and Raph as midfield partners, having KP playing so deep at times he looked like a CB. I said at HT that Phillips needed to step 10 yards up the pitch but the changes meant he ended up even deeper as Ayling had to keep an eye on Shackleton.
For me that is where it all went wrong really, there was nothing centrally ( even less than usual ) and Mr Rice had the freedom of Elland Road as a result. We may point to the two set pieces but they had so many chances to score it was embarrassing.

Klich did look off, even after scoring the goal, which should have given him a real lift. But in that first half we had Dallas cutting inside instead of supporting Raph on the right hand side while on the left Ailoski and Harrison were exposed time and time again, And Cooper, twice he was left tackling fresh air in the box. Rodrigo looked lost at times but he still had our two best chances in the game. He needs games and that is what has been the problem so many of our side we arent settled at the minute.

If we can find a settled side It will improve I expect but I really hope we can bring in a decent CB as a loaner in the window. Marcello felt before the game we had cover there, but we dont, we lose Ayling at RB, lose his attacking threat look even softer at free kicks and are at risk of destroying the confidence of a really great young keeper as a result.

[1964white]

Seems like a lot of negatives what did people expect!

To be disciplined, remain solid & do the basics right as oppose to running around like a bunch of headless chickens all over the park

[1964white]

If we can find a settled side It will improve I expect but I really hope we can bring in a decent CB as a loaner in the window. Marcello felt before the game we had cover there, but we dont, we lose Ayling at RB, lose his attacking threat look even softer at free kicks and are at risk of destroying the confidence of a really great young keeper as a result.

Marcelo believes we have enough even though we are leaking goals like water from a leaky bucket with our championship defence. Fulham, West Brom & the Blunts are in the same predicament, you need to be solid at the back in the PL, somewhat difficult when we leave ourselves exposed & have no one who can win challenges in the air.

Goals conceded after 12 games

2019/20 Championship = 6
2020/21 Premier League = 22

[1964white]

Losing is one thing.

The manner of a performance is another.

Not doing the basics, weak in the challenge, far to open etc.

Defeats are expected but not doing the basics isnt.

Agree If a team doesn't get the basics right they are in trouble

[1964white]

Have we finally been "found out"?

Yes Bob

Defend in numbers.
Wait for our team to leave themselves exposed.
Capitalise on our errors
Play for set-pieces/corners
Pop the ball in the air

And Bob's your uncle

[andrewjohnsmith]

Continually picking .... Dallas beggars belief

Sorry I stopped reading there

[andrewjohnsmith]

No wonder no one wanted Benrahma this summer, he is so greedy and selfish.

He tore our defence to shreds. Something none of our players could do on the other end

[andrewjohnsmith]

Bit of an overreaction here imo. Why do we think we're better than West ham? They've had a really good start to the season as well. This season was all about staying up and we're well up at the moment.

Victims of our own early success it seems...

But it's also showing Bielsa is a great manager but not a miracle worker and not without his faults.

I'd say some of the same, but that was far from West Ham's best team. They had a few players out and a makeshift back 4. But they set up solidly and we couldn't break it down. That's where we're falling short. In games like this, Leicester, Palace, Wolves - we played average teams but didn't have the quality upfront, or strength at the back to compete.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Been a depressing Saturday.

Klich had a very tough job on his hands last night, trying to get used to Rodrigo and Raph as midfield partners, having KP playing so deep at times he looked like a CB. I said at HT that Phillips needed to step 10 yards up the pitch but the changes meant he ended up even deeper as Ayling had to keep an eye on Shackleton.
For me that is where it all went wrong really, there was nothing centrally ( even less than usual ) and Mr Rice had the freedom of Elland Road as a result. We may point to the two set pieces but they had so many chances to score it was embarrassing.

Klich did look off, even after scoring the goal, which should have given him a real lift. But in that first half we had Dallas cutting inside instead of supporting Raph on the right hand side while on the left Ailoski and Harrison were exposed time and time again, And Cooper, twice he was left tackling fresh air in the box. Rodrigo looked lost at times but he still had our two best chances in the game. He needs games and that is what has been the problem so many of our side we arent settled at the minute.

If we can find a settled side It will improve I expect but I really hope we can bring in a decent CB as a loaner in the window. Marcello felt before the game we had cover there, but we dont, we lose Ayling at RB, lose his attacking threat look even softer at free kicks and are at risk of destroying the confidence of a really great young keeper as a result.

I think you're right. Our midfield set up is largely to blame. There's a huge gap between Phillips and Klich. We've seen previous games that we've won where KP still gets overrun in midfield. We all want Rodrigo and Raphinha and Bamford to play, but that's what creates the void. Noticeably Bielsa has played Dallas as an extra midfielder a few times and Cuisance was very close to signing. He obviously wants 3 central midfielders.

I know our attacking play is breathtaking at times, but I think we have to sacrifice one of the front guys and play an extra mid. KP and Klich, with someone else like Dallas, Shackleton, or Strujik.

[1964white]

IMHO, taking off Bamford for Roberts was a statement, that MB is in charge, but it also stated that MB has issues with players that do not toe the line, as I have said before this smacks of Pontus, now the best option on the bench tonight was Pablo, the worst was, and I don't say this lightly Roberts, who IMHO is a league 1 player

Bielsa cutting off his nose to spite his face.

The game was more or less was dead in the water, taking off our only goalscorer was a huge error, not using Pablo our only other regular scorer was mind-boggling, sending Roberts on was nothing short of criminal killing the game instantly.

I wonder how many Leeds fans had their heads in their heads at that moment?