Kids from u23?

[Dutch Peacock]

Which kids would you like to see in the remainder of the season? Considering we are almost save should we try some more young players instead of some of the first team players who were not very good the last couple of games? Maybe to see if the kids are up to it for next season or just to see their potential. And not just on the bench but really playing some minutes. Bielsa was watching the u23s against Wolves so he is interested in the young players, as we knew already ofcourse. But with the first team selection he seems to stick to a lot of the experienced players, even though the play of some of them isn’t up to Premier League standard and probably never will be.

I would like to see:
- Leif Davis: just to see if he could be an option for next season as a back-up for left back.
- Cody Drameh: as back-up for right back. Plays great in u23s most of the time.
- Joe Gelhardt: maybe to replace Bamford in the future, he can score goals easily which is a positieve for a striker.
- Crysencio Summerville: looks good in the u23s.
- Jamie Shackleton: already in the first team squad ofcourse but i would like to see him more, maybe instead of Klich.

[The Subhuman]

Davis has gone backwards a bit, poor in his last couple of U23's. Also not sure where Bielsa sees him
Drameh is about a season away
Geldhert is close, maybe an appearance or two late off the bench by the end of the season
Summerville is also maybe a season away, hopefully see him make the squad next season
Shackleton I think is injured or he would be getting game time

Huggins is the one closest to playing meaningful game time imo...very good player

[Leeds1000]

For me id like to see Gelhardt have a crack. It the bits i have seen he's a no nonsense kid, strong direct full of running.

[Lumiukko]

I'm not sure Bielsa was at Wolves to watch the U23s primarily, I think he wanted to see Rodrigo, Berardi, and Poveda play (all of whom did make the bench yesterday).

That aside, one of the reasons we need some more points on the board is that we can safely try the youngsters out in safe games. So, I'd like to see:

Gelhardt: Looks like he could do a good job already. Fast, direct, great shot, skills,, strong on and off the ball, tracks back and defends. Seems to fit right into the Bielsa mould for defending from the front.
Huggins: Surely with our left sided issues there's room for trying him out?
Summerville: Also would like to see him have a run out since he's played Dutch top division football already. I definitely think he will be pushing for a squad place next season.
Drameh: Might be worth bringing in soon as understudy to Ayling.
Greenwood: worrying one this, has shown that without a path to grow, he'll happily move on and he's too good to let go, but yet, I'm not sure he's good enough to push for the #8, #9, or #10 roles.
Kenneh: Already starting to bulk out, he could be getting game time next year. Not this season though.
Cresswell: Not this season, but in a years time as he looks the best junior defender at the club.

[Byebyegeegee]

Greenwood: worrying one this, has shown that without a path to grow, he'll happily move on and he's too good to let go, but yet, I'm not sure he's good enough to push for the #8, #9, or #10

What makes you think this Lumi, has he said or intimated that he is unsettled or unhappy or something and wants to move on?

We want kids with drive and ambition certainly but we don’t want kids who are too big for their boots!

[The Subhuman]

What makes you think this Lumi, has he said or intimated that he is unsettled or unhappy or something and wants to move on?

We want kids with drive and ambition certainly but we don’t want kids who are too big for their boots!

Maybe to do with he walked away form Arsenal for lack of chances ... He cost us 1.5M so I'd expect him in the first team squad sometime in the next year

[Byebyegeegee]

Thanks faaip, that’s it of course - silly me!

[Chilli D]

Gelhardt has already proved he can handle senior football by playing for Wigan in the Championship so he should be pushing hard for a first team start. I was hoping we would replace Roberts in one of the recent games but less likely now Rodrigo is back.
Hopefully he gets a run out before the end of the season.

[Lumiukko]

Thanks faaip, that’s it of course - silly me!

As Faaip said. I believe before Arsenal, he also left Sunderland for similar reasons. Seems the kid has a lot of ambition, and it isn't without warrant. I think last season at Arsenal he had the golden boot (not sure if that was youth league golden boot, or Arsenal youth ranks).

[bremnerboy28]

Personally I don't see any of the young players mentioned breaking through in the near future although it would be great to see. But the sheer nature of the Premier League doesn't really give teams enough leeway to risk introducing two, three, four players no matter how good they're playing for U'23's. We'll probably move 3 or 4 first team squad on and replace them hopefully with better quality players which will leave the same or even less spaces on the bench for them and they'll get the odd game as per this season in the hope that one or two do look the part for the future or might get a run through injury or suspension as did Struijk and Meslier. Remember how long it took Phillips to establish himself. If we're going to aim higher every season then the squad needs to improve as well every season and unfortunately that doesn't give much of a chance for the young players to breakthrough. Sad but just a fact of how football is now at the top where money rules I'm afraid and risking young players is not something many managers are prepared to do. Alot of the players have to drop down a league or two and hope they can make it back that way. I think most clubs are happy if they can produce a first team player every couple of years and sell some of the others on for a profit.

[Lumiukko]

Very true Bremner. I think Bielsa will try a few out in pre-season and that might give them the chance they need to be regulars in the first 18 next season.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Personally I don't see any of the young players mentioned breaking through in the near future although it would be great to see. But the sheer nature of the Premier League doesn't really give teams enough leeway to risk introducing two, three, four players no matter how good they're playing for U'23's. We'll probably move 3 or 4 first team squad on and replace them hopefully with better quality players which will leave the same or even less spaces on the bench for them and they'll get the odd game as per this season in the hope that one or two do look the part for the future or might get a run through injury or suspension as did Struijk and Meslier. Remember how long it took Phillips to establish himself. If we're going to aim higher every season then the squad needs to improve as well every season and unfortunately that doesn't give much of a chance for the young players to breakthrough. Sad but just a fact of how football is now at the top where money rules I'm afraid and risking young players is not something many managers are prepared to do. Alot of the players have to drop down a league or two and hope they can make it back that way. I think most clubs are happy if they can produce a first team player every couple of years and sell some of the others on for a profit.

Wow - times have changed since O'Leary threw Kewell, McPhail, Smith, Woodgate, Harte and Robinson in to the first team and promptly got to two successive European semis... It makes you wondr what the U23s are for other than to bring back injured senior players.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/19 ... ory.sport2

[Carrick Dave]

Very true Bremner. I think Bielsa will try a few out in pre-season and that might give them the chance they need to be regulars in the first 18 next season.

If we don't secure PL status early enough for Marcelo to get a look at them this season, their immediate chances evaporate IMO. A runout against PL opposition will tell him more about attitude and character than any preseason friendly, and would be just as valuable for him if they struggle as if they take to it like ducks to water.

If he doesn't take a look at them when we're hopefully home and hosed against lower PL opposition (in May) then they are no further forward come August.

[Smudge3920]

Wow - times have changed since O'Leary threw Kewell, McPhail, Smith, Woodgate, Harte and Robinson in to the first team and promptly got to two successive European semis... It makes you wondr what the U23s are for except to bring back injured senior players.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/19 ... ory.sport2

IMO... O'Learys comments from 22 years ago... give you the answer... without saying it "he got lucky"... no funds to buy...not that it wasnt welcome luck. It is a wonderful thing when you get an aacademy player 17 to 20 slide right in, but for the most part it is a gamble and as O'Leary himself said...

"The failure rate is still enormous. Six years ago, this club won the FA Youth Cup against a Manchester United side which had David Beckham, Nicky Butt, Paul Scholes and the Neville brothers. None of the Leeds kids made it to the first team and only Noel Whelan at Coventry is still in the game. They simply weren't good enough."

[CHAPELALLMAN]

IMO... O'Learys comments from 22 years ago... give you the answer... without saying it "he got lucky"... no funds to buy...not that it wasnt welcome luck. It is a wonderful thing when you get an aacademy player 17 to 20 slide right in, but for the most part it is a gamble and as O'Leary himself said...

Fair enough Smudge. Though I suspect that Wilko's vision in setting up the academy had a lot to do with it.

[Smudge3920]

Fair enough Smudge. Though I suspect that Wilko's vision in setting up the academy had a lot to do with it.

Hard to say...but the fact remains the failure rate is higher than the success rate... a manager/coach have to be absolutely sure the risk is worth taking, when it comes time to blooding them, 3 more points and I believe MB has the golden opportunity to "blood" a couple and see where we are at... The boys came through for O'leary (and themselves)... but the fact is if the funds had been available he would have bought....And those gems would have had a delay in their development.

[Lumiukko]

If we don't secure PL status early enough for Marcelo to get a look at them this season, their immediate chances evaporate IMO. A runout against PL opposition will tell him more about attitude and character than any preseason friendly, and would be just as valuable for him if they struggle as if they take to it like ducks to water.

If he doesn't take a look at them when we're hopefully home and hosed against lower PL opposition (in May) then they are no further forward come August.

I've been saying the same on other threads, that I'd like to see us get two wins ASAP so that they can get a look-in in a competitive game.

[whiteroseboy]

Have watched most of the U'23's games this season and for the most part they have been great (with a little help from 1st teamers occasionally).

One thing I'll say before getting carried away when I've seen the likes of Costa & Roberts play for them they have looked world beaters which suggests to me its a big step up to the 1st team.

However its a young U'23 team with bags of talent and I'm sure its a matter of time before some start to push, promotion to U'23 Prem one will also help with tougher opponents next term.

Agree with a lot of what others have said but are a few of my observations -
Caprile - Wasn't sure at first but have seen big improvement as the season as progressed (estimate - 24month behind Meslier in development)
Drameh - Surprised he's not been included in first team squad looks a cracking FB to me and rarely gives the ball away, good with players attacking him and good going forward.
Casey & Creswell - One day will line up alongside each other in first team.
Huggins - Think we are turning him into a FB rather than midfield, looks class at times but not consistent enough yet.
Davies - Pace & energy to burn but makes too many errors, iron them out and would be our LB, but its a if.
Jenkins - Not close ready in my view but as obvious talent.
Kennah - Not sure the Club have yet decided whether he should be DM or CB, DM for me.
McKinstry - Like Him and his delivery from set pieces is excellent, has two good games then one mediocre one so again consistency.
Summerville - Brilliant at times but runs up too many blind alleys, young and learning though.
Greenwood - Cracking player but just a feeling he would struggle against senior players, long term No10 though.
Gelhardt - Different type of any striker we have very talented should be a regular option from the bench now.
Dean - Ok really a U'18 so still a baby but style wise is Paddy's love child, his runs and work rate closing down so reminds me of our striker, be interesting watching how he develops.
Kamwa - A real handful, again be one to watch develop.

[Azkal]

Have watched most of the U'23's games this season and for the most part they have been great (with a little help from 1st teamers occasionally).

One thing I'll say before getting carried away when I've seen the likes of Costa & Roberts play for them they have looked world beaters which suggests to me its a big step up to the 1st team.

However its a young U'23 team with bags of talent and I'm sure its a matter of time before some start to push, promotion to U'23 Prem one will also help with tougher opponents next term.

Agree with a lot of what others have said but are a few of my observations -
Caprile - Wasn't sure at first but have seen big improvement as the season as progressed (estimate - 24month behind Meslier in development)
Drameh - Surprised he's not been included in first team squad looks a cracking FB to me and rarely gives the ball away, good with players attacking him and good going forward.
Casey & Creswell - One day will line up alongside each other in first team.
Huggins - Think we are turning him into a FB rather than midfield, looks class at times but not consistent enough yet.
Davies - Pace & energy to burn but makes too many errors, iron them out and would be our LB, but its a if.
Jenkins - Not close ready in my view but as obvious talent.
Kennah - Not sure the Club have yet decided whether he should be DM or CB, DM for me.
McKinstry - Like Him and his delivery from set pieces is excellent, has two good games then one mediocre one so again consistency.
Summerville - Brilliant at times but runs up too many blind alleys, young and learning though.
Greenwood - Cracking player but just a feeling he would struggle against senior players, long term No10 though.
Gelhardt - Different type of any striker we have very talented should be a regular option from the bench now.
Dean - Ok really a U'18 so still a baby but style wise is Paddy's love child, his runs and work rate closing down so reminds me of our striker, be interesting watching how he develops.
Kamwa - A real handful, again be one to watch develop.

A really descriptive and insightful overview WRB, thank you

[andrewjohnsmith]

I've watched every U23 game this year (thanks to youtube) and they've been a lot of fun to watch. I personally think there are so many great prospects coming through. But it's hard to see how. I don't think Bielsa will put them in ahead of his senior players. That said, I was surprised to see Caprile on the bench ahead of Casilla. Even if Ali's contract is winding down I dont see Davis or Huggins getting game time ahead of him. I dont see Gelhardt or Greenwood pushing Pablo aside (unless injured). And the fact that Berardi made the bench ahead of Casey and Cresswell (after just 2 x 45 mins in the 23's) is telling.

We have a lot of talent, I'm just wondering how we'll fit them in next season

Caprile - Don't think he's ready yet, even if Casilla leaves
Drameh - Definitely ready. Think he could do the job now. But Ayling has never been injured, and we have Dallas and Shackleton as back up
Davis - I think he's a cracking player (and I dont think he's been poor in the 23's). Again, Dallas and Alioski mean he doesn't get a look in. With hindsight, I really wish we'd sent hm out on loan this season and he might be coming back as a starting LB.
Huggins - Another cracking player. Covers both fullbacks and both wings (and he even played midfield on his debut). Another one who's ready but nowhere to play him
Casey - Solid CB. I'd send him out on loan since we've got 4 CB's + Berardi + Ayling + Phillips.
Cresswell - Better than Casey. Gifted footballer for a CB, like Rio Ferdinand. I think he's going all the way. Again, like Casey, might have to go on loan.
Jenkins - Possible future of the midfield. Plays 4 or 8. I think he'll play another year in the 23's and be available as back up
Summerville - has looked great over the past few games. He's not going to get a sniff this year with 4 wingers in the 1st team. I think he's worth a spot next year and we'll probably let someone leave (hope its not Raphinha)
McKinstry - very talented but needs more time. Like Jenkins, another year in the 23's, available as back up
Greenwood - Definitely ready for the bench. Cracking striker but they've been converting him to the 10 and 8 roles. Same as a few others, no room for him. We need to make room for hm next season otherwise he'll be gone
Gelhardt - Cracking player. I would have played him off the bench a couple of times already. Another that needs a first team spot next season

Summary:

Next years 1st team squad: Drameh, Davis (if we dont replace Alioski), Summerville, Greenwood, Gelhardt
Send on loan next year: Huggins, Casey, Cresswell, Davis (if we sign a LB)
Another year in 23's: Caprile, Jenkins, McKinstry
Not sure about: Kenneh (huge potential), Kamwa (not seen much yet), McCarron (still young but looks promising)
Next U23 Star players: Allen, Dean, Chilokoa-Mullen

I haven't seen more than a few clips of our loaned out players - Maybe they're a subject for another thread. At the start of the season I thought Gotts and McCalmont were prospects. Not sure about: Hosannah, Edmundson, Stevens, Kun