The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 2nd November) - Have Leeds overestimated the quality in the squad?

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning. It's Tuesday 2nd November, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Leeds have overestimated the quality they have in the squad

Leeds Journalist Phil Hay believes that the Leeds Utd hierarchy overestimated the quality of the players they have on their books, but went on to say that he expects their form to pick up when a fully fit squad is available.

It's fair to say that they expected the players in the squad to stay at a much higher level than they have this season. They expected the performances to continue after last season. The proof will be in the pudding ultimately, but it hasn't been good so far. Perhaps with hindsight, they'll look back and think that they over-estimated the quality of the squad. I have to say that I didn't expect them to struggle like this early on either. I didn't think they'd finish 9th again, but I did think they'd have enough about them.

The attitude of the club is very much that the team will play better when key players return from injury (for a sustained period) & individual form picks up. One of the main messages from yesterday & Wolves is that the players are fighting for this - in comparison to Norwich who really looked like they threw the towel in at 2-1.

Have Leeds overestimated the quality of the squad? Was a drop off in performances from the likes of Ayling, Klich and Dallas inevitable? They have given everything for the past three seasons, surely they can’t be expected to perform at such a high level forever. Has the ability of players such as Roberts and Shackleton been overestimated? Are we too reliant on a group of young, untested U23 players to provide backup?





When Bielsa leaves, who would you like to see in the ER hot seat?

Whilst Marcelo Bielsa has had a fantastic tenure at Elland Road, nothing lasts forever; and there'll come a time when the Argentine and Leeds Utd part ways. Many believe this will be Bielsa's last season, and he'll walk away with his head held high next Summer!

Who is favourite for the Elland Road hot seat next? According to Betfair its Eddie Howe, followed closely by Frank 'Spygate' Lampard and Chris 'I hate Leeds' Wilder. Who would you like to see as the next Leeds Manager?

Eddie Howe 4/1
Frank Lampard 6/1
Chris Wilder 6/1
Steven Gerrard 7/1
Jorge Sampaoli 8/1
Marcelino 9/1
Lee Bowyer 9/1
Antonio Conte 12/1
Jonathan Woodgate 20/1
Diego Flores 25/1
Mick McCarthy 40/1
David O’Leary 100/1





The next 10 games

Leeds face some tricky ties in their next ten games, by which time we'll be halfway through the season. Are these fixtures more or less difficult than our opening games? How many points do you estimate the Whites will pick up, and where do you see them in the league table halfway through the season?

Leicester City Home
Spurs Away
Brighton Away
Crystal Palace Home
Brentford Home
Chelsea Away
Manchester City Away
Arsenal Home
Liverpool Away
Aston Villa Home

[Ellandback1]

Leicester City Home 1-1
Spurs Away 0-2
Brighton Away 0-2
Crystal Palace Home 3-2 us
Brentford Home 1-0 us
Chelsea Away 3-0
Manchester City Away 2-0
Arsenal Home 1-3
Liverpool Away 0-3
Aston Villa Home 1-1

8 points

[Ellandback1]

Would Pochettino join Leeds?

[SG90]

What a depressing list that is! I'd love Arne Slot from Feyenoord, I think he'll be the new Ten Hag. Diego Martinez? Maybe one of Bielsa's assistants?

[SG90]

Yes we massively overestimated the quality. We massively overachieved last season. I had us down for 14th last season, which was probably about right over the season, a great run at the end propelled us higher. I wonder if we finished 14th, would the club have been so delusional about the quality and depth? I don't mind using u23s, but the starting xi needs 3/4 better players.

[Baldbloke]

I always thought Carlos Corberan at Huddersfield was pencilled in to replace MB. Maybe I read it somewhere or dreamt it but he is never mentioned. As for Lampard and Wilder while we all know it won't happen I wouldn't want either of those horrible creatures anywhere near a Leeds team

[rab_rant]

Jurgen Goebbels here, double agent on many Leeds United Bulletin boards, propagandist in training. Main purpose is to sow descent and discord. Disaster follows confusion. Disharmony is the seed of destruction.

The primary rules are:

1) never allow the public to cool off; always find fault or something that has gone wrong;

2) never concede that there may be some good in the opponents you play.

3) always ask for alternatives to be made thus ceating unrest and confusion. Focus on Bielsa's stubbornness and his proclivity to put square pegs in round holes.

4) always find a scapegoat to blame e.g. Tyler Roberts. Or another target would be injury prone Adam Forshaw. Blame the owner for lack of investment, and the director of football for being inept in the transfer market.

5) concentrate on one player at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; the Welshman in the team would be good targets namely Roberts or James. Promotion of xenophobia always brings good rewards. and stress that Bielsa after 4 years can still not conduct an interview in English. Judicious mention of the Argentinians and the Falklands war is always acceptable. Anything that breeds hostility

6) Be persistent and continually feed the people the big lie.

7) repeat the big lie ad nauseam; repeat it on a continuous drip feed so that enough people will sooner or later believe it.

[Byebyegeegee]

Have Leeds overestimated the quality of the squad? Yes, from what we’ve seen so far this season it looks as though that might be the case! Hopefully when, if ever, we have a fully fit squad to choose from for a sustained period we might start playing more like we did at the back end of last season.

I’m not one for speculating about a new Manager until the unthinkable happens and Marcelo decides to call it a day.

We need to target the home games out of that list as I can’t see us getting a single point away. 8 points looks about right Ell, which after 20 games would leave right in the middle of a relegation scrap.

[Aussieleeds]

Next manager will be Ange Postecoglu from Celtic (after winning the SPL). You heard it here first.

[mentalcase]

Will the next manager, whenever that be, accept AR & VO as being involved in team additions ??
A 3 man agreement !!

[weasel]

Will the next manager, whenever that be, accept AR & VO as being involved in team additions ??
A 3 man agreement !!

I doubt many managers would be at a club where they could go above the chairman and make signings!!! I think Clough tried it at Derby and got fired. We also saw what happened when we had a manager wanting players we probably didn't really need and the chairman was happy to keep signing them. As for VO's role well I see it that he makes reccomendations based on his extensive knowledge and the stats. If Bielsa, or another manager, didn't fancy that player then there would be little point signing him. I would doubt that Bielsa would have made recomendations as signings and Orta or Rads would have outright said no. Probably more like Orta coming up with alternatives for Bielsa to consider or Radz saying we can't afford the fee.

[mentalcase]

I doubt many managers would be at a club where they could go above the chairman and make signings!!! I think Clough tried it at Derby and got fired. We also saw what happened when we had a manager wanting players we probably didn't really need and the chairman was happy to keep signing them. As for VO's role well I see it that he makes reccomendations based on his extensive knowledge and the stats. If Bielsa, or another manager, didn't fancy that player then there would be little point signing him. I would doubt that Bielsa would have made recomendations as signings and Orta or Rads would have outright said no. Probably more like Orta coming up with alternatives for Bielsa to consider or Radz saying we can't afford the fee.

Yea, I appreciate all that, but, it won't be same as now with a new manager, MB has a system to work with, other managers are more flexible about changing systems.
Did it really take 3 professional adults to sigh Dan James !!

[Sprake1]

we are in the process of building a new team after most of the promotion players are slowly going over the top. only Phillips should be a premier ship star in the future. it will take time but it has started and we have also many very promising good players in the building after the great job done by Victor Orta.
Maybe we will struggle through this season but the most important thing is stay up, and the future will be very bright in dead.

[BGwhite]

Would Pochettino join Leeds?

Unless he was given serious money the only thing he'd join at Leeds is the M1 back down to London.

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

[1964white]

I hope I'm not accused of being negative, but I can only see us acquiring 9 points unless our performances significantly improve & we have a bit of luck with less injuries/officials/etc.

[BGwhite]

I hope I'm not accused of being negative, but I can only see us acquiring 9 points unless our performances significantly improve & we have a bit of luck with less injuries/officials/etc.

Don't think you'll be far away with that prediction 64, I'm struggling to get more than that at best.

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

[Cjay]

The squad.

Yes, thats the simple answer.

The club got it wrong in the summer as some of us said. Nobody is taking anything away from what a great achievement last season was but it was inevitable that the Championship core would experience a drop off at some point.

Dallas, Cooper, Ayling, Bamford, Harrison, Klich, Phillips, those 7 have played almost non stop for over 3 years. At some point a drop off was inevitable and for the club to not recognise it and in fact mock the idea of 2nd season syndrome as Kinnear did was total arrogance, now he looks stupid.

Our biggest strength always was the system, not having really gifted players. They were a well coached energetic bunch who did what they were told.

The problem with that was any drop off, even a small one would wreck our biggest strength, the system. Now that has happened and combine that with the lack of quality lets be honest we have always had then you have a recipe for disaster.

A few of us recognised this possibility in the summer and called for an overhaul, at one point it was reported the club were looking at 3-5 first team players, at the top end that was ideal. Unfortunately that run at the end of the season probably gave false confidence and it became 2 (and we wont even talk about whether those 2 were the right players).

So yeah imo the club were arrogant, mocking 2nd season syndrome and talking about 2 seasons worth of transfers (no club does that its utterly ludicrous and looks daft now) and probably the good run end of season gave false confidence.

A drop off was inevitable and the club were to arrogant and naive and even stubborn to recognise it.

Next manager

I dont know, it has to be someone similar to Bielsa for continuity imo so hmm.

Marcelo Gallardo is probably out of our reach but him.

Adi Hutter in Germany has a good reputation but i dont know to much about his style apart from he likes to press.

Thomas Frank, dont like him but he did well at Brentford.

Probably loads more i cant think of but it mus be an attacking pressing coach.

Next 10

On current performances never mind form we could lose the lot.

However

Leicester City Home- defeat
Spurs Away- defeat now Conte is in.
Brighton Away- defeat, they are in better form and beat us twice last season.
Crystal Palace Home-win.
Brentford Home-draw.
Chelsea Away-defeat
Manchester City Away-defeat
Arsenal Home-draw
Liverpool Away-defeat
Aston Villa Home-win.

I think 8 points which isnt enough, on current form compared to those teams i just struggle to see much.

[BGwhite]

Average a point per game and it's fine.

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

[Overman]

I hope I'm not accused of being negative, but I can only see us acquiring 9 points unless our performances significantly improve & we have a bit of luck with less injuries/officials/etc.

God forbid you're accused of being negative on here, it may well lead to another 'negativity' thread.

[hector]

God forbid you're accused of being negative on here, it may well lead to another 'negativity' thread.

What a good idea.......

that would cheer folk up