Marcelo Bielsa

[Overman]

Martinez the great defensive coach that got Wigan relegated including losing a match 9-1?

Yes, the very same manager who's in charge of a Belgium side ranked No 1 in the world. He's come a long way since Wigan?

[weasel]

The squad is very 1 dimensional with very little talent or flexibility tactically.

We have a very off the ball lots of effort sort of squad, we don't have a very talented or flexible one.

Therefore we are effectively held to ransom by Bielsa (not meant in a critical way) but because of his demands in terms of squad size and the sort of player he wants it leaves very little flexibility in the squad.

A difference in tactics is not going to suddenly make the squadbare first team better. Getting players back will. There is no miracle tactic that will make us be able to compete with the best teams in the premiership with our patched up team.

Therefore it limits what a new coach can do without significant investment the level of which its unlikely Radz and the Venture capital group would consider in January.

The concern I have though is the fans may applaud but players won't keep faith forever especially if they see flaws in the system that we can

They won't be happy being sent out like lambs to the slaughter week in week out so something will need to give.

The players will know how many important players we have out injured. I played for several years and it isn't like you turn up on matchday with half your team missing and think not to worry we will do as well as we would do with them. If it was Bielsa's first choice XI playing every match and getting battered then the starting players would start to question the tactics and the players not getting games would be being disruptive as they would feel they deserved to be playing. That isn't happening so the players will still all support Bielsa, they will be frustrated at the situation but not at Bielsa. Yes you might want to play defensively and just hope to hang on for a 0-0 draw but you know realistically that at some point you will concede and if it is early then you'll still get battered.

[weasel]

Yes, the very same manager who's in charge of a Belgium side ranked No 1 in the world. He's come a long way since Wigan?

In charge of a Belgium team that has some great players - not won anything mind. I think a better manager would have got that team a trophy or two.

[Overman]

Liverpool lost 1 or 2 players last season.

And went on to lose 6 home games in a row. An awful run.

But they remembered that they had a great manager who had done remarkable things in recent seasons, so they didn't hit the Big Sam button, they didn't talk about systems failures and beg Klopp to change his style.

Yes, but they weren't skirting with relegation and had the resources to turn it around. One of the most important aspects, squad depth and quality.

[Cjay]

The players won't support Bielsa indefinitely Weasel.

That never happens in football (even Ranieri lost support from Leicester players despite achieving a miracle). Eventually they will lose faith as has happened to other teams for decades.

If it comes down to it the players will throw Bielsa under the bus before them.

They won't be any different to other players.

[weasel]

It's a fairly ridiculous thread. Hockaday belongs in it.

We have one of the world's greatest. The manager of the year last year.

And the premise of this entire thread is that we'll gloss over the 10 missing players, he's just gone bad, so we'll get Big Sam in.

Indeed. Liverpool had 1 missing player last year, Van Dijk, and fell apart. We have a far less talented squad than Liverpool and yet are expected to cope with the injuries we have. It's almost seems like some people were expecting us to go out and win today.

[Overman]

In charge of a Belgium team that has some great players - not won anything mind. I think a better manager would have got that team a trophy or two.

I certainly wouldn't turn him down, that's for sure. Like I said, the Ajax manager looks a good a shout, but he's clearly happy where he is. They have only conceded 4 goals all season.

[The Subhuman]

The same Forshaw everyone on here was fawning over just a couple of games ago?
And Ayling is being played out of position over an actual CB who is in the England U21 team.

Couple of games ago Forshaw was playing CMF, now he's DMF .. Who's the CB in the EU21's?

[Cjay]

Indeed. Liverpool had 1 missing player last year, Van Dijk, and fell apart. We have a far less talented squad than Liverpool and yet are expected to cope with the injuries we have. It's almost seems like some people were expecting us to go out and win today.

It isn't that at all.

But when you are struggling like we are then some form of tactical flexibility is warranted.

You should do something to try and make yourself more solid (and no not suggesting going full Sean Dyche) just little tweaks.

For example our man to man system, at times it borders on madness, their is absolutely no need for Koch to follow Lacazette to the halfway line for a throw. Lacazette isn't doing that to receive the ball he is doing that to pull Koch out of position, _you don't have to be a top manager to see that it's blatantly obvious.

Foden did similar to Llorente.

Manure did similar to and that was bloody Ole ffs.

It's clearly a tactic opposition coaches have devised to take advantage of the slightly ludicrous aspect of our man to man system.

Now that foir example could be changed.

Their could easily be a tweak in that to make us a bit more solid. These are the sort of things imo a coach as renowned as Bielsa should be willing to do more often.

Not asking him to throw away the entire book of tactics just maybe tweak a few pages.

[SG90]

Indeed. Liverpool had 1 missing player last year, Van Dijk, and fell apart. We have a far less talented squad than Liverpool and yet are expected to cope with the injuries we have. It's almost seems like some people were expecting us to go out and win today.

It's not just about these two games though.
Scum
Liverpool
Crewe
Fulham
Southampton
Brighton
Norwich
Newcastle
Burnley

We were dreadful.

Can you name one good performance this season?

[DDB220]

Cannot believe I even take time to read half of this drivel, there is plenty of balanced views but far too many fantasists and depressives looking for a proverbial back slap by another depressive.
Before you slag people off look in the mirror and ask yourself ‘ What have I ever achieved that puts me in a position to pontificate so assuredly’. I do not mind the thread which is a question that could be posed against any manager whose team find themselves in our position. But you are fawning over what Souness said. He was a very, very average manager who had some success in Scotland, but who hasn’t at Rangers or Celtic.
Bielsa could take us down it is a reality based upon the points situation, but you sack him and we are down. It is that simple. But heh let’s all throw some names around. Erik Ten Hag made me laugh the most.

[SG90]

Couple of games ago Forshaw was playing CMF, now he's DMF .. Who's the CB in the EU21's?

Charlie Cresswell.

[Cjay]

Cannot believe I even take time to read half of this drivel, there is plenty of balanced views but far too many fantasists and depressives looking for a proverbial back slap by another depressive.
Before you slag people off look in the mirror and ask yourself ‘ What have I ever achieved that puts me in a position to pontificate so assuredly’. I do not mind the thread which is a question that could be posed against any manager whose team find themselves in our position. But you are fawning over what Souness said. He was a very, very average manager who had some success in Scotland, but who hasn’t at Rangers or Celtic.
Bielsa could take us down it is a reality based upon the points situation, but you sack him and we are down. It is that simple. But heh let’s all throw some names around. Erik Ten Hag made me laugh the most.

So because people haven't had a long successful career in football they can't comment but then neither can Souness who was a very gifted player who has more managerial experience than anyone here?

Souness has more experience or football manager success than anyone here so doesn't your first point make his opinion more relevant than any of ours?

[SG90]

I'd be happy for Bielsa to stay if he adapted tactics and signed players in January, but if he refuses to allow us any signings, then he is playing with the club's future, and that is not something we can afford to wing.

[Overman]

Cannot believe I even take time to read half of this drivel, there is plenty of balanced views but far too many fantasists and depressives looking for a proverbial back slap by another depressive.
Before you slag people off look in the mirror and ask yourself ‘ What have I ever achieved that puts me in a position to pontificate so assuredly’. I do not mind the thread which is a question that could be posed against any manager whose team find themselves in our position. But you are fawning over what Souness said. He was a very, very average manager who had some success in Scotland, but who hasn’t at Rangers or Celtic.
Bielsa could take us down it is a reality based upon the points situation, but you sack him and we are down. It is that simple. But heh let’s all throw some names around. Erik Ten Hag made me laugh the most.

Well don't ferking read it then, if you're going to have fanny fit.

[Overman]

I'd be happy for Bielsa to stay if he adapted tactics and signed players in January, but if he refuses to allow us any signings, then he is playing with the club's future, and that is not something we can afford to wing.

But he's not going to adapt his tactics or methods, that's just the way he is and will always be. That is why he hasn't won a great deal and dosen't hang around too long.

[weasel]

But go back and look at the pre season matches, you will see a lot of the issues mentioned now regarding not just the individuals but the system being mentioned then.

And we didnt have injury problems them.

At what point do we recognise that injuries may just be a convenient excuse but actually the issues are more ingrained?

You can't as a team expect to only play well with a full strength squad

We drew 1 -1 with Burnley and had nobody major missing

We drew with Newcastle with largely the first choice team.

Same vs Everton to.

For me the issues are much deeper than injuries and these issues have been obvious since pre season.

People are very protective of Bielsa but if it wasn't him I don't think our fans would be working so hard to deflect from his own deficiencies this season.

In hindsight pre-season was poor. I felt at the time that Bielsa was simply getting the team ready for the first match of the season and we would be fine for the first match - this was based on the 3 previous pre-seasons where results and performances were decidedly mixed. Looking at it now we definitely weren't sharp for the first few games. I think that the club may have changed a bit given what had happened with the shortened pre-season from the previous year but whatever happened we definitely didn't look sharp early in the season.

The injuries aren't a convenient excuse. They are a fact. Any team would struggled with the injuries we have even Man City and Liverpool (who others have said struggled ridiculously last season with just 1 or 2 injuries). Yes we didn't beat Burnley, Newcastle or Everton but it is as if fans simply expect us to jus turn up and win - these are teams full of premier league players, they don't just turn up to get rolled over. Everton were on fire early on in the season. Burnley are well drilled and play to their strengths. Newcastle, despite their problems, have some excellent players - a bit like us in that we have mainly good players and then a couple of excellent players.

It isn't a case of just us missing 1 or 2 players and nearly being at full strength which is probably the case for most clubs. In addition to having so many players out we have also had to rush Koch back in, with no match sharpness. Ayling could have done with being eased back in a bit. Dallas and Klich are probably not at 100% either but are being patched up and playing. Same with Dan James playing v City after he got clattered a couple of times by Chelsea. And then we get to the youngsters who are hailed as all being brilliant by some fans yet it isn't like our reserves are ripping up the U23s league, we're struggling there and none of our players have exactly been standing out for them, Gelhardt and Summerville impressing at times but not absolutely smashing it.

Fans need to have a bit of realism towards the actual situation. Yes the defeats hurt but a bit of perspective needs to be used.

[weasel]

The same Forshaw everyone on here was fawning over just a couple of games ago?
And Ayling is being played out of position over an actual CB who is in the England U21 team.

Not me. Forshaw has done okay, not great, but is nowhere near KP's level.

Ayling being preferred to an injured CB in the England U21 team.

[SG90]

But he's not going to adapt his tactics or methods, that's just the way he is and will always be. That is why he hasn't won a great deal and dosen't hang around too long.

Yep, and that's the problem. If we weren't in any danger of relegation, then it'd be fine. But get relegated due to stubbornness would be negligence.

[DDB220]

I knew you would be the first to respond CJAY - you have tried to reveal hypocracy that isn’t there. Read it again and try and understand the context.