Marcelo Bielsa

[Cjay]

Said it all before... apart from his obvious achievements, and the manner of them, to date, I don't believe there's anyone else out there who could get more out of the players available to us, or do a better job of developing new signings and young talent.

The reasons for this season's difficulties are plain to see in the injuries, with key players missing for extended periods, and the impossibility of picking a consistent team. Bielsa's so-called 'stubbornness' is the recognition that, to play probably the best style of football on the planet, the players need to be acutely in tune with each other's movements, and that takes practice, consistency and repetition.

Above all, Bielsa has spoilt football for me. I don't want to watch anyone else, and I dread the day he leaves. I don't think he's anywhere near the ceiling of what he could achieve at this club given a fit and augmented squad, and I think his style gives us the best chance of punching above our weight, and competing with teams whose resources far outstrip us. We've already seen that can be the case, and I want nothing more than to see Bielsa's Leeds ripping into the top six next season.

That some people want to throw that dream away without even trying is enough to make me lose my faith in nice things, quite frankly.

Well thought out post

Thanks for taking the time.

[pjm2019]

Bielsa 5
Orta 1
Radz -1
Kinnear fuckoff

Bielsa has been tactically woeful this season although we have had injuries playing 5 players out of position is criminal so is playing Dan James upfront. Tactical genius he is not Confirmed with some of the pathetic results we have paid to watch and he’s been found out this yea, we are easy to beat. His small squad policy, Dan James upfront, Tyler Roberts is etc could potentially relegate us.

Orta has been on the whole crap and has wasted millions on crocks and square pegs. Failure to address the midfield issue is pathetic. January we should have strengthened instead we go into the next few games without a centre forward who can win the ball in the air, no subsisted keeper and limited options in midfield. He needs to be replaced.

Radz never trusted him and won’t spend a penny. Tight c**t, full of s**t.

Kinnear f**king hate him complete tosspot and bullshit merchant. His comments regarding January transfers were nothing short of a joke.

Totally agree

[Jimang]

No

I also think Bielsa will call time on his stay here anyway. I think after last season he had high expectations of a top six finish, and would have stopped another season to have a crack at Europe. As we have gone backwards we are more likely be struggling to stay up next season, so I believe he will leave.
Next season is going to be a big job for whoever were to take over. I think we need a young dynamic Manager in the mould of Artetta or Howe. He obviously needs to try and keep as many of our best players as possible and some of the reliable Championship ones as back up in a bigger squad. It is also time to discard some of the poor buys and those that will never come up to the mark. In addition to this, money needs to be spent on several quality players, in key positions for the first team. We have tallented youngsters who also need to be given their chance.
It is also important to keep the attacking flair we have and temper it with a more patient defensive plan B where the opposition warrant it.
All of this is of course dependant on us avoiding relegation, if that were to happen I dread to think of the consequences.
I would join everyone in thanking Bielsa for doing such a great job in getting us promoted and finishing in the top 10 last season. I just think we need a change now to take us to the next level. Of course the key is getting the right person in.

[Cjay]

I realise it's mostly subjective, but that's football, isn't it, a game mainly about the passions of the supporters.

That's another thing I love about Bielsa, the way he's inspired and galvanised the community of fans, and puts ordinary people first. I'm one of those who says Bielsa's example has made me a better person.

He's given, and continues to give so much. It breaks my heart to think of the fans turning against him, but here we are.

I understand that, as a person he is first class mostly, he has his frustrating side we know that but he is a lovely principled man.

He is also very honest, he said this in January.

Bielsa said: “I focus on the performance of the team, and the weaknesses that we have shown were precisely the ones I had worked on to ­elevate us from last season.

“So when I made the ­decision to work here for one more year, it was because I had the conviction that the team could be better.

That depended on some decisions and developments. I wanted the developments to help the team to grow – but I haven’t achieved it.

The situations we have had to go through, I wasn’t able to resolve them as I thought I would.”

i dont doubt that he is very hurt by this season and whether it is all his fault or not (it isnt) he will blame himself as you can see.

He says himself he only stayed because he he felt we could do better than last season but he has been unable to fix the same issues we had last year despite him trying to.

You dont often get managers being that honest and self critical.

Its a refreshing change but it also does highlight that he is partly to blame and he is honest enough to acknowledge that.

I will never forget that time he stopped in the middle of the road to go hug that disabled lady or the time after the promotion he came out of his flat to celebrate with the fans.

He is a special man.

That being said having read that quote i am even more convinced whatever happens he will go this summer.

He wont be forgotten ever here but id hate for it to turn proper toxic. I dont think it will but this season hasnt been acceptable (as Bielsa acknowledges).

[Kennyb41]

Quality post Sara.

[Kennyb41]

I can see why you would interpret his words in the way you do, but we also know that he routinely takes blame upon himself out of respect and consideration for others.

It's true he obsesses about maximising all the areas over which he believes he has influence, but I still think the main problems this season were beyond his control. People talk about the small squad, but tend not to mention what we would have had to spend to cover all the players who have been missing... or what we would have done with those players had we signed, and then not needed them. Hindsight is always 20/20.

If we stay up, and I think we will, Bielsa and the board will have achieved the task they set themselves following promotion. The plan was always to spend and push on in the third year. We have a long term vision and a plan to achieve it, and this has worked largely due to Bielsa's ability to coach most of the players to levels no one thought possible. Even a talented new signing, like Raphinha,has quadrupled in value and become a Brazil international under Marcelo's guidance.

I sincerely hope you are wrong, and he will be relishing working with the new players we are going to bring in in the summer.

And that'll do for me

[Kennyb41]

Said it all before... apart from his obvious achievements, and the manner of them, to date, I don't believe there's anyone else out there who could get more out of the players available to us, or do a better job of developing new signings and young talent.

The reasons for this season's difficulties are plain to see in the injuries, with key players missing for extended periods, and the impossibility of picking a consistent team. Bielsa's so-called 'stubbornness' is the recognition that, to play probably the best style of football on the planet, the players need to be acutely in tune with each other's movements, and that takes practice, consistency and repetition.

Above all, Bielsa has spoilt football for me. I don't want to watch anyone else, and I dread the day he leaves. I don't think he's anywhere near the ceiling of what he could achieve at this club given a fit and augmented squad, and I think his style gives us the best chance of punching above our weight, and competing with teams whose resources far outstrip us. We've already seen that can be the case, and I want nothing more than to see Bielsa's Leeds ripping into the top six next season.

That some people want to throw that dream away without even trying is enough to make me lose my faith in nice things, quite frankly.

Jeez i don't know how i missed this, you say everything i want to say but i'm not clever or articulate enough.

Keep it up Sara, or SaraM, i've only been here a short while but you are absolutely spot on in my eyes and i for one love your post.

I dread the day we lose him, he is nowhere near where what he wants to achieve for us having been heavily hindered, please please please leave it to him, Bert probably knows now it's going to take a lot longer and be a lot harder than first thought because this is the Prem we're talking about after all....but he'll get us there eventually, and there is no one better in the world in my eyes.

I look forward to your next post. Do you have a fan club anywhere else

[Overman]

I understand that, as a person he is first class mostly, he has his frustrating side we know that but he is a lovely principled man.

He is also very honest, he said this in January.

Bielsa said: “I focus on the performance of the team, and the weaknesses that we have shown were precisely the ones I had worked on to ­elevate us from last season.

“So when I made the ­decision to work here for one more year, it was because I had the conviction that the team could be better.

That depended on some decisions and developments. I wanted the developments to help the team to grow – but I haven’t achieved it.

The situations we have had to go through, I wasn’t able to resolve them as I thought I would.”

i dont doubt that he is very hurt by this season and whether it is all his fault or not (it isnt) he will blame himself as you can see.

He says himself he only stayed because he he felt we could do better than last season but he has been unable to fix the same issues we had last year despite him trying to.

You dont often get managers being that honest and self critical.

Its a refreshing change but it also does highlight that he is partly to blame and he is honest enough to acknowledge that.

I will never forget that time he stopped in the middle of the road to go hug that disabled lady or the time after the promotion he came out of his flat to celebrate with the fans.

He is a special man.

That being said having read that quote i am even more convinced whatever happens he will go this summer.

He wont be forgotten ever here but id hate for it to turn proper toxic. I dont think it will but this season hasnt been acceptable (as Bielsa acknowledges).

Great post

[weasel]

The situation we have now reminds me of the situation when Simon Grayson was in charge and was sacked.
Like Bielsa Grayson had got us promoted, coincidentally after losing out in the play-offs at the same stage in his first season in charge. Grayson had galvanised the team and got us playing some great football at times. We got promoted and in our first season back in a higher division overachieved with largely the same squad of players that had won us promotion. Fans though were quick to find fault, largely suggesting the manager couldn't organise a defence (despite us having a rock solid defence in the first half of the promotion season before key injuries bit). Because we had a good season and overachieved lots of fans thought we should do better the following season but we didn't. Into his fourth season in charge and for the first time we took a backwards step. With Grayson the drop off in form was due to a combination of key injuries, best players leaving (Beckford, Snodgrass, Johnson etc) and being given extremely little money to strengthen the squad. Needless to say the unpopular chairman wanted to keep the vitriol from being turned on him so went with the noisy fans and sacked the manager. In came promotion specialist Neil Warnock. How the noisy fans lapped it up, loved his attitude, his passion etc. Loved the way he immediately tightened up the defence. 3 games in to the new manager's reign and we concede 7 at home to a Nottingham Forest side we had beaten 4-0 at their ground earlier in the season. Was a new manager the answer then? A resounding no, but the fans grasp of reality was sadly lacking and they couldn't see how we had greatly overachieved the previous season.

All sounds a bit familiar.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Talk about whether MB can take the club any further really need to be rephrased as ' can the 3-3-1-3 formation be made to work in the PL with a club which has relatively little spending power ? MB's managerial career has been all about using this formation and about trying to refine it in certain ways.

Most people think that MB created his own philosophy of how the game should be played, however it is one that he adopted and has pursued obsessively from the Dutch concept of total football ( Ajax and the national team ) from the 70s, which is not too surprising given that he would have been a young player at the time that the Dutch revolutionised football tactics with a concept that had been used before , but which did not become known worldwide until Rinus Michels adopted it.

Total football was all about fluidity, each outfield player being comfortable in every position on the pitch, and the interchanging of roles. Another feature of total football was an almost crazy degree of pressing - watch a clip of the Dutch national team in action in the 1974 Word Cup. Cruyff of course was the master in this team - regarded by most as the best player in the world in 1974.

Then Louis van Gaal used the same system successfully with Ajax, adding the concept of a permanent no 10 freely occupying the space between the midfield and defence.

As it says in an article I read ;

Although this system has never been widely employed and is used primarily when in possession, its use was duly admired and analysed in Jonathan Wilson’s seminal book, Inverting the Pyramid. This is because, despite its scarce use, the 3-3-1-3 underpinned some of the greatest footballing teams and was instrumental in their success. The reason it is so seldom used, given its achievements, is due precisely to the fact that only the best has been able to successfully utilise it – it is extremely physically and technically demanding.

Every team that Bielsa has managed has used this formation in at least some phases of their matches. With Leeds, he prepared the team in his first season to adopt this formation, and then fully implemented it in his second season. Bielsa starts with a 4-1-4-1 and then reverts to this formation when out of possession - a 3-3-1-3 is basically too risky to use at all times during a match.

What is obvious is that only some of the greatest teams in the sports history have been able to make 3-3-1-3 work. Pep has used kind of hybrid versions of it at Bayern and Barca. You need players with very high technical ability, good tactical awareness and above average fitness. Some positions are absolutely key - the full/wing backs need to be hybrids of defenders, midfielders and wingers and need to cover a huge amount of ground. You need a DM who is absolutely top notch and on his game. You need a no 10 who can make it work as per Louis van Gaal's concept. You need a C/F who can press hard and play on his own up front. You need really top notch wingers, and so on and so on. You need players with the right physicality and ,the right technical ability all over the pitch.

Main disadvantages of 3-3-1-3 ( from the same article )

1) Using the 3-3-1-3 and pressing high up the pitch leaves a team vulnerable and exposed at the back and on the wings if the opposition does manage to get past the press.

2) 3-3-1-3 system requires players of high technical quality, which is why Bielsa often chooses to play defensive midfielders in defence – they are better on the ball and at dictating play with passes, as well as being keen to push up as often as possible.

3) Playing defensive midfielders as centre backs requires an extremely deep and versatile squad as the system is both physically demanding (thus resulting in more injuries) and requires a high number of midfielders. This has the additional financial implications as most teams have nowhere near the spending power, as Bayern Munich.

So the question is - does this club have the resources to allow Bielsa's footballing philosophy to thrive at the club ? Does it also have the knowhow and the ability to recruit the right kind of players to make the system work against some of the best clubs in the world in the PL ? Is Bielsa too wedded to this system for him to ever have the flexibility to make do with the less than ideal conditions at a club which is a relative minnow in the PL ? Can the risky and demanding 3-3-1-3 work without some of the best players in the world and a player like Cruyff ?

What MB did at the club during the championship seasons was to kind of build a poor man's Ferrari. He took players without the technical ability demanded by the system and instead used a system of extreme robotic drilling together with an incredibly intense fitness regime. It worked in the championship, but it has major limitations in the PL when you are facing players with much more technical ability and tactical awareness. A pure system of 3-3-1-3 would be hard to implement even for a club with unlimited resources and some of the best players in the world.

So I think the answer is no -it would be interesting if MB had been given the resources at club level to properly pursue his ideal, however it can't happen at Leeds. A much more pragmatic approach is needed here.

[Clacton White]

I remember his first season , missed out via play offs and I believe he said something like he didn't see how the same squad of players could be lifted to do it all over again and get promotion .The club lost Jansen and Roofe , the main striker then , Bamford was now the main man up front but with pretty much the same side promotion was actually achieved , so by Bielsa's logic they had over achieved. Next season a few additions but pretty much the same set of players plus Rodrigo and Raph had a creditable 9th in Premier League . On to this season and it's still pretty much the same side , barring a few here and there , that we were told couldn't do it all over again . If that is the case , why are some of these still the backbone of the side ? I know it's loyalty and there isn't enough of that in football nowadays......also huge credit to Bielsa for loyalty to players and club.......but it also now seems to be coming at huge cost and detriment .I like Bielsa a lot , as a person and manager , but I don't think he will change either in tactics or loyalty( the Roberts thing is baffling to me ) . The point of all this ....I don't know really .I would like him to stay , I don't think he will beyond this season and also I think he needs to drastically change his stance on squad size , rotation and a fair few of the players . Of course , he won't

[velo]

I would like him to stay , I don't think he will beyond this season and also I think he needs to drastically change his stance on squad size , rotation and a fair few of the players . Of course , he won't

And that is his downfall in my opinion, it has come back to bite us hard this season, if we do stay up we need at least 4 top signings inc a goal scorer, which we haven't really had for most of the season

[SG90]

The situation we have now reminds me of the situation when Simon Grayson was in charge and was sacked.
Like Bielsa Grayson had got us promoted, coincidentally after losing out in the play-offs at the same stage in his first season in charge. Grayson had galvanised the team and got us playing some great football at times. We got promoted and in our first season back in a higher division overachieved with largely the same squad of players that had won us promotion. Fans though were quick to find fault, largely suggesting the manager couldn't organise a defence (despite us having a rock solid defence in the first half of the promotion season before key injuries bit). Because we had a good season and overachieved lots of fans thought we should do better the following season but we didn't. Into his fourth season in charge and for the first time we took a backwards step. With Grayson the drop off in form was due to a combination of key injuries, best players leaving (Beckford, Snodgrass, Johnson etc) and being given extremely little money to strengthen the squad. Needless to say the unpopular chairman wanted to keep the vitriol from being turned on him so went with the noisy fans and sacked the manager. In came promotion specialist Neil Warnock. How the noisy fans lapped it up, loved his attitude, his passion etc. Loved the way he immediately tightened up the defence. 3 games in to the new manager's reign and we concede 7 at home to a Nottingham Forest side we had beaten 4-0 at their ground earlier in the season. Was a new manager the answer then? A resounding no, but the fans grasp of reality was sadly lacking and they couldn't see how we had greatly overachieved the previous season.

All sounds a bit familiar.

I was gutted when Grayson was sacked and angered when Colin was appointed. Never hated a manager as much as him.

[Byebyegeegee]

That’s a well researched and well written post chapel and too much for my meagre brain to fully comprehend, but I think the thrust of your argument is that for Bielsaball to work consistently at Premier League level, it would require better players than we have and, in all probability, better players than we can afford to get. If we have slightly inferior players then a change of system might work more to our advantage. Is that likely to happen with Marcelo in charge? I don’t know but I voted yes, because I trust him, being the most honourable man in football, to make his own decision in the best interests of the club. If he decides to stay then I trust that he (and the board) would have a plan to make a marked improvement on this season’s showing.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

That’s a well researched and well written post chapel and too much for my meagre brain to fully comprehend, but I think the thrust of your argument is that for Bielsaball to work consistently at Premier League level, it would require better players than we have and, in all probability, better players than we can afford to get. If we have slightly inferior players then a change of system might work more to our advantage. Is that likely to happen with Marcelo in charge? I don’t know but I voted yes, because I trust him, being the most honourable man in football, to make his own decision in the best interests of the club. If he decides to stay then I trust that he (and the board) would have a plan to make a marked improvement on this season’s showing.

Thanks Byebye, and sorry if it was a bit long winded, but yes, that's the thrust of it.

People talk about ' Bielsaball' but really the theme of Bielsa's whole managerial career has been about using the 3-3-1-3 system and trying to make it work at various clubs as well as at international level. It wasn't something he invented, but what is unique is that he has tried to make it work at clubs with lesser resources and lesser players through using methods which are more his own innovation. That system has only ever worked properly with the Dutch national side and Ajax.

As I said, drilling lesser players to play this system worked at championship level, but the PL is a different thing entirely. It's a risky formation which when it fails can result is defensive calamities such as we have seen from time to time in the PL. If it goes badly wrong then you can be on the wrong end of a thrashing. Only a special type of player could play the DM role for example, so if you lose that player through injury then the whole system starts to fail badly.

To answer your question - would Bielsa drop 3-3-1-3 then the answer would be no. He has used it at every club he has managed and at international level. Pep Guardiola modified it at Barca to make it suit the players that he had available, and Bielsa switches to 4-1-4-1 depending on who has possession - however 'Bielsaball ' is essentially about the Dutch concept of 3-3-1-3. That formation basically means committing a lot of players up front when attacking, but it's a risky approach in the PL.

[Cjay]

Talk about whether MB can take the club any further really need to be rephrased as ' can the 3-3-1-3 formation be made to work in the PL with a club which has relatively little spending power ? MB's managerial career has been all about using this formation and about trying to refine it in certain ways.

Most people think that MB created his own philosophy of how the game should be played, however it is one that he adopted and has pursued obsessively from the Dutch concept of total football ( Ajax and the national team ) from the 70s, which is not too surprising given that he would have been a young player at the time that the Dutch revolutionised football tactics with a concept that had been used before , but which did not become known worldwide until Rinus Michels adopted it.

Total football was all about fluidity, each outfield player being comfortable in every position on the pitch, and the interchanging of roles. Another feature of total football was an almost crazy degree of pressing - watch a clip of the Dutch national team in action in the 1974 Word Cup. Cruyff of course was the master in this team - regarded by most as the best player in the world in 1974.

Then Louis van Gaal used the same system successfully with Ajax, adding the concept of a permanent no 10 freely occupying the space between the midfield and defence.

As it says in an article I read ;

Although this system has never been widely employed and is used primarily when in possession, its use was duly admired and analysed in Jonathan Wilson’s seminal book, Inverting the Pyramid. This is because, despite its scarce use, the 3-3-1-3 underpinned some of the greatest footballing teams and was instrumental in their success. The reason it is so seldom used, given its achievements, is due precisely to the fact that only the best has been able to successfully utilise it – it is extremely physically and technically demanding.

Every team that Bielsa has managed has used this formation in at least some phases of their matches. With Leeds, he prepared the team in his first season to adopt this formation, and then fully implemented it in his second season. Bielsa starts with a 4-1-4-1 and then reverts to this formation when out of possession - a 3-3-1-3 is basically too risky to use at all times during a match.

What is obvious is that only some of the greatest teams in the sports history have been able to make 3-3-1-3 work. Pep has used kind of hybrid versions of it at Bayern and Barca. You need players with very high technical ability, good tactical awareness and above average fitness. Some positions are absolutely key - the full/wing backs need to be hybrids of defenders, midfielders and wingers and need to cover a huge amount of ground. You need a DM who is absolutely top notch and on his game. You need a no 10 who can make it work as per Louis van Gaal's concept. You need a C/F who can press hard and play on his own up front. You need really top notch wingers, and so on and so on. You need players with the right physicality and ,the right technical ability all over the pitch.

Main disadvantages of 3-3-1-3 ( from the same article )

1) Using the 3-3-1-3 and pressing high up the pitch leaves a team vulnerable and exposed at the back and on the wings if the opposition does manage to get past the press.

2) 3-3-1-3 system requires players of high technical quality, which is why Bielsa often chooses to play defensive midfielders in defence – they are better on the ball and at dictating play with passes, as well as being keen to push up as often as possible.

3) Playing defensive midfielders as centre backs requires an extremely deep and versatile squad as the system is both physically demanding (thus resulting in more injuries) and requires a high number of midfielders. This has the additional financial implications as most teams have nowhere near the spending power, as Bayern Munich.

So the question is - does this club have the resources to allow Bielsa's footballing philosophy to thrive at the club ? Does it also have the knowhow and the ability to recruit the right kind of players to make the system work against some of the best clubs in the world in the PL ? Is Bielsa too wedded to this system for him to ever have the flexibility to make do with the less than ideal conditions at a club which is a relative minnow in the PL ? Can the risky and demanding 3-3-1-3 work without some of the best players in the world and a player like Cruyff ?

What MB did at the club during the championship seasons was to kind of build a poor man's Ferrari. He took players without the technical ability demanded by the system and instead used a system of extreme robotic drilling together with an incredibly intense fitness regime. It worked in the championship, but it has major limitations in the PL when you are facing players with much more technical ability and tactical awareness. A pure system of 3-3-1-3 would be hard to implement even for a club with unlimited resources and some of the best players in the world.

So I think the answer is no -it would be interesting if MB had been given the resources at club level to properly pursue his ideal, however it can't happen at Leeds. A much more pragmatic approach is needed here.

Well researched and well made points.

It's quite sad when you think about it.

Football has never seen BielsaBall at its best because Bielsa has never been at a club that could provide the ideal players.

Closest we got probably Is when he was strongly considered by Barcelona to replace Pep.

A real what if scenario.

[Cjay]

Marcelo Bielsa’s Leeds United future: This time it’s different


A few months ago, a photo appeared of Marcelo Bielsa in the car park at Leeds United’s training ground, huddled together with a group of boys half his height. He was there to impart words of wisdom to academy players who were ready to go home and the chat ended with a big group hug.

That was not the first time Bielsa had dipped into age groups well below his paygrade. Last June, he spent one Monday evening running an under-11s training session, partly for fun but largely for the squad’s benefit. Football at that level of the development tree is barely his concern but alongside the business that mattered, he saw no harm in breaking away from the first team.

At Leeds, there is always something that interests Bielsa. The connection between him, the club and the Yorkshire city has made it feel like home for a coach who had a reputation for passing quickly through jobs but, day to day, there is very little chance of him growing bored. Tired, perhaps, but never bored. He has infrastructure projects to pore over and dream up, a functioning academy to enjoy and a secluded training ground to lose himself in. All besides the main focus of his attention.

As the years went by, and one season with Leeds became two, three and four, his fascination with the entire operation gave the impression of a man as tied to the club as the club were to him. If the thought of losing Bielsa was uncomfortable for Leeds, the thought of losing Leeds was no easier for Bielsa. It will come as a shock to the system when he wakes up to find he is no longer able to look out of his window over the River Wharfe. But one day, that reality will be his.

February, without fail, has been when the subject of Bielsa’s contract rears its head, and this season is no different.

The chatter started last week with various reports about how Leeds saw the future, what Bielsa’s intentions might be and who would be shortlisted to replace him if the end of the line was indeed coming in May. The club are familiar with the routine and ready for it after watching Bielsa jump from 12-month deal to 12-month deal since his appointment in the summer of 2018. They also know from experience that he is highly unlikely to show his hand until the Premier League season is done but nonetheless, it is almost that time again.

This, though, is not the same scenario as before.

While Leeds, and Andrea Radrizzani in particular, spoke in previous years about planning for the eventuality that Bielsa walked away — preempting a gaping hole by speculatively monitoring other coaches — the comments were something of a mating dance. Leeds were utterly attached to the Argentinian and however hard he tried to dictate the speed of negotiations, the Argentinian was attached to them. The partnership was a marriage, never a marriage of convenience. Contractual intricacies were the only reason Bielsa took so long to sign new deals.

But a draining and leaden Premier League season so far makes the coming months harder to read. In terms of renewal, where is Bielsa at? And where are Leeds in weighing up their response to this season?

The road home from Everton on Saturday and the 90 minutes preceding that drive was watershed territory, an awakening for even the blindest of optimists. Leeds are failing in ways they were not before and there is too much emanating from this season for anyone to disregard the issues. Unlike last season, when Leeds would have tied Bielsa to a new contract several months in advance of the summer, there is too much riding on the remaining 15 games for either party to try to initiate negotiations.

Up to this point, Leeds and Bielsa have been on the same page.

There were some in the club who would have liked him to accept the players he was offered in last month’s transfer window, loanees especially, but they agreed with his view that the squad as it looked on deadline day was good enough to stay up. Leeds are one of only two teams in the current bottom six who have not changed manager this season, and at no stage has Bielsa’s position come up for discussion.

There has been no diluting of his authority when it comes to running Thorp Arch, picking a team or dictating the intensity of training. Crysencio Summerville was compelled to stay at Elland Road last month after asking to leave, but the club justified that decision to Bielsa on the grounds that the available wingers in the market were not players he would want.

As yet, Leeds have had no intimation from Bielsa, who turns 67 in July, about whether he thinks he has a fifth year in charge in him.

On the basis that he held off for so long even after Leeds secured safety in the Premier League last season, it is inconceivable that he would telegraph his thinking at a time in this one when the club could still go down. Because of the annual lack of clarity, the club have an established practice of Victor Orta, their director of football, tracking the managerial market in the background — a means of due diligence in the face of a coach forever on a short-term deal.

In the weeks before the end of Bielsa’s first season, in the spring of 2019, Slavisa Jokanovic and Aitor Karanka were singled out as candidates to replace him if a failed Championship promotion bid led to a parting of ways, and Leeds do not intend to be any less prepared this time. Though their status as a Premier League side is not secure, they are planning as if they will be one again next season. That much was shown by a report in The Daily Telegraph last week linking them credibly to Ernesto Valverde and Jesse Marsche, two coaches who would need the pull of Premier League football to consider getting involved at Elland Road.

Marsch, who cut his teeth coaching in the USA, knows Orta well and the American’s tactical methods at Red Bull Salzburg and RB Leipzig — possession-based and concentrated on a high press — would potentially make for a smooth transition from Bielsa, avoiding a clunking change of gear. Only last month, Leeds were bidding for a player, Brenden Aaronson, who Marsch himself signed for Red Bull Salzburg.

Valverde has vast pedigree with a string of clubs in Spain and Greece, but what is most intriguing about him is that he succeeded Bielsa as Athletic Bilbao coach in 2013, and did so with competence which earned him the Barcelona job four years later.

When Bielsa eventually goes, Leeds do not want to decimate the existing plan. The idea is that the best aspects of Bielsa’s football — high intensity, extreme fitness levels and finely-drilled tactical awareness — are inherited and adopted by the next man, albeit with his own twists.

There are others who Leeds admire too, like Carlos Corberan at Huddersfield Town. Corberan was part of Bielsa’s coaching staff in the promotion year at Elland Road and Leeds have been impressed by his gradual success in a challenging managerial job in the Championship. The big differences between him and Marsch and Valverde are that Corberan is under contract and an unknown quantity in an elite league.

In the summer when they first appointed Bielsa, Leeds discussed Roberto Martinez as an option but, as Belgium’s national coach, he is nine months away from a World Cup and highly unlikely to step away from that job come the summer.

For Leeds, so much of this is hypothetical.

They will do nothing while Bielsa is in office and their next steps will be influenced by his attitude; first and foremost, whether he wants to speak about staying on. But even if he does, and even if Leeds make good their bid to secure survival, there is more to the decision than a simple yes or no.

How would Bielsa propose to stop Leeds’ 2021-22 from repeating itself? How would the club help him to do that? Can everyone be pragmatic in accepting that, on different fronts, change might be necessary? Or do they shake hands and say goodbye?

Bielsa has been too exceptional a coach to lose him on a whim but it is evident that, in the public domain, some of the things people loved about him are starting to concern them.

He has consistently challenged players to play out of their natural positions but that quirk grates when Mateusz Klich starts as a defensive midfielder at Everton while Adam Forshaw is available and made for that role. Bielsa has always had a small squad but accepting that becomes harder when the squad starts to lack balance and suffers horribly from injuries.

Bielsa’s indifference to the transfer market is genuinely endearing but perhaps transfers are precisely what Leeds need. Quirky substitutions no longer cause amusement. Bielsa likes to flood his match-day squad of 20 with under-23s but how many of them have progressed this season to a level that makes them likely to be more prominent in 2022-23?

The key for Leeds is substance over sentiment.

Bielsa keeping them up again would bookend a remarkable tenure nicely but it is not in itself a reason to change manager after one poor season in four. Letting him go would end an era for the club which is never likely to be replicated but that in itself is not a reason to stay together if performances are too much of a concern.

It will occur to Leeds that what’s been said many times is turning out to be true: that the only decision as big as appointing Bielsa in the first place is the decision about when and how to move on from him. In these scenarios, timing and judgment is everything.

You constantly wonder how life without Leeds would feel for Bielsa; how much he would miss it. He has made memories for life and more than he would have counted on when he first took the job.

Earlier this season, he was sent a letter by a young supporter containing a photograph of him and Bielsa together. The boy wanted him to sign it. Bielsa obliged and sent it off but asked if the lad would sign another copy of the picture himself and post it back for Bielsa to keep.

Affinity like that is hard to build and even harder to relinquish.

[Cjay]

Any more votes?

1 more person to make it a nice round 50.

I wonder if this is the most active poll in Motforum history.

So nice to see.

[Cjay]

Thanks, Kenny, but only on Monday I was described as 'wifey fingers', and 'one of the most disruptive posters on here', so I doubt there'll be a fan club forming any time soon!

I think those of us who love Bielsa are probably idealists, and want to see the game played in the style of total football, described in Chappel's post above. It probably comes down to how much stomach you've got for the inevitable implosions on the pitch when it doesn't work, and how pragmatic you want to be to guard against that.

I'm firmly in the attack is the best form of defence camp, and believe Bielsa's style is so good when it works, which it mostly has so far, that the high risk, high gain strategy is justified. Whether it can prevail in the premier league against superior opposition hasn't really been fully tested yet, and won't be unless we recruit well in the summer and give Bielsa another season to develop it further.

I think it can work, and is well worth the attempt. In saying that I'm also prepared to take the risks and consequences of being wrong, over the certainties of ditching it all to become one of the PLs pragmatic survivors, like Burnley. That's the ultimate question for the Bielsa rejectors to answer; what do you want instead? How else do you see Leeds competing in the top half against wealthier clubs? Or are you content to play dour, defensive football, scrapping for survival every year?

For me though it shouldn't be either or in terms of style.

You don't have to go hell for leather against every single side, it isn't an either or scenario, you can and should adapt to your opponent if it is required.

The best managers adapt when necessary.

Most managers aren't total idealists like Bielsa, I suppose that is the difference.

Bielsa has shown on rare occasions willingness to adapt somewhat.

We press a bit less, we sit back a bit more and it's actually worked, I don't know if it is the case anymore but at one point in the 4 or 5 matches where was had had less possession we had won every match.

It's that sort of willingness to adapt that I wish we had seen more this season. As it is he totally abandoned it for some reason and it has seen us get absolutely battered by teams who have far better players and who easily exploit the system which in those situations is a total hindering factor.

Teams like Manure and Liverpool and Arsenal and City can't believe their luck when a collection of hard working but far less gifted players try to go man to man with them all over the pitch, it's a wonder Bruno Fernandes doesn't wet himself laughing as he and his far more gifted teammates easily exploit a rather naive system and knock in goal after goal.

So that for me is why I don't accept the well if Bielsa leave what do you want to be, Burnley argument.

It isn't and shouldn't be a case of one or the other.

Absolutely not would I want to be a Burnley, like watching paint dry.

But a there is a time for a more pragmatic approach, you can play lovely attacking pressing football most of the time but when you are totally outmatched man for man you can easily be a little bit less gung ho as Southampton showed the other day vs Manure.

They weren't unpleasant to watch but they did sit back a bit, they let certain Manure players have it in unthreatening areas (Maguire on the half way line) they man marked the players in threatening areas and forced Maguire to waddle forward and when the time was right pressed and forced him to go back or sidewards or lose the ball and then they attacked.

That for me is what I would like, Bielsa has done it in the past but for reasons I can't understand he has totally abandoned it.

Would hate to be a Burnley but there is imo a happy medium.

[lufc1304]

Unlimited funds for Marcelo would be as close as he could get to the 'robots' he's often said would win every game. Can you imagine Bielsaball funded by City's owners, for example, would be mouthwatering!!