Leeds United v Norwich City Match Thread - Bamford starts for Leeds

[The Subhuman]

Overman
Kenny

This is not the square ball, or any other forum, we are a friendly forum, so please keep your bickering away from here.

Be nice... it is not hard..

Thank you both

Used to be, a lot of snide now .. shame really

[Kennyb41]

Any thoughts on this if Llorente is fit?
(I’m wearing my tin hat)

—————Meslier

Ayling. Llorente. Koch. Struijk

—————Forshaw

———Klich*——Dallas

Raphinha—James**—Harrison


* Klich - slightly more attacking roll than Dallas who could drop back to help Forshaw.
Alternatively Klich could be to the left of Dallas

** James to start if Paddy not fit enough for a full game

I personally wouldn’t start with Gelhardt as I don’t think he’s up for a full game at this level yet.
He could last a full game but I don’t think he could influence a full game.

If Bert was in charge, I think it would be perfect for the win.

And i think with the Big Yank in charge it's what he should go with, but we'll lose.

Go 4-1-4-1 with PB from the start until knackered, and go for the throat from the off.

There are options like : Dallas at LB...Pascal...at DM....and Forshaw alongside Klich.....but i'm worried to high heaven after Villa how Big Jesse's gonna tell them to play.

[Finnatic]

I just think Forshaw keeps it ticking over as DM and has a better touch than Koch or Struijk there.
I don’t mind Dallas at LB but we’ve missed his graft in midfield as the last five games have proved
Klich can graft (more than Rodrigo) but has more guile than Dallas or Forshaw, in an attacking sense
If Paddy can last 60+ minutes then I’d definitely have him up front.

[1964white]

I just think Forshaw keeps it ticking over as DM and has a better touch than Koch or Struijk there.
I don’t mind Dallas at LB but we’ve missed his graft in midfield as the last five games have proved
Klich can graft (more than Rodrigo) but has more guile than Dallas or Forshaw, in an attacking sense
If Paddy can last 60+ minutes then I’d definitely have him up front.

Rodrigo should never wear the white shirt of Leeds again, he's just a lazy individual, let's hope he is out of door along with our other mercenaries who don't want to be at ER,

[Cjay]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I find it hard that someone with your insight would call for Berts head that's all, without it being obvious to your like what the consequences with such few games left could and probably will be, with the players we have.

Especially after observing him for nearly 4 years and all he's achieved with his magic wand.

Not a problem, always reply if asked politely

You've said this before and I will repeat myself.

I never called for his head . . . Not once.

On Faaip's vote I voted for him to stay.

The squad (which Bielsa is very much to blame for with Orta) is so weak and lacking in genuine Premier league quality talent and so inflexible that it just felt like it was asking to much of a new manager to come in and save us.

Bielsa atleast had knowledge of the squad, the squad knew his methods and he knew them.

That being said Bielsa was taking us down , I am utterly convinced of that.

Hand on heart I think he had pushed this squad 1 season to far, his methods weren't working, he wasn't going to change (as he himself said) and I think the goals we concede would have sent us down. I think the side had reached its limit last season but his refusal and unwillingness to evolve the squad combined with the boards willingness to be cheap and unambitious have combined to create a perfect storm of awfulness that would have seen us relegated under Bielsa and Still may under Marsch.

And I think the players had lost faith and once that happens its curtains.

You don't concede 60 goals in what 25 26 games and survive and the fact he didn't see that his style was very much partly to blame showed a blind spot that i don't think we would have survived.

What I find strange is some of our fans like yourself refuse to blame Bielsa at all in any way, I've never understood that?

Was Bielsa totally to blame? Absolutely not.

But was he innocent? Absolutely not.

He deserved a lot of criticism for this season as any manager with the season we had under him does.
.
Never understood how some of our fans could deem Bielsa totally blameless.

[Overman]

Rodrigo should never wear the white shirt of Leeds again, he's just a lazy individual, let's hope he is out of door along with our other mercenaries who don't want to be at ER,

He's one of our worst signings of all time, up there with Brolin and Roque Junior (not forgetting JKA). 100k a week for a mediocrity, it's criminal.

[Finnatic]

Rodrigo should never wear the white shirt of Leeds again, he's just a lazy individual, let's hope he is out of door along with our other mercenaries who don't want to be at ER,

The higher you go the more that sort of thing happens.

[1964white]

The higher you go the more that sort of thing happens.

If that's the case, bring on the championship.

I immediately turned off the TV at the final whistle of the Manure v Spurs game before the pundits cream over Ronaldo.

[Kennyb41]

Not a problem, always reply if asked politely

You've said this before and I will repeat myself.

I never called for his head . . . Not once.

On Faaip's vote I voted for him to stay.

The squad (which Bielsa is very much to blame for with Orta) is so weak and lacking in genuine Premier league quality talent and so inflexible that it just felt like it was asking to much of a new manager to come in and save us.

Bielsa atleast had knowledge of the squad, the squad knew his methods and he knew them.

That being said Bielsa was taking us down , I am utterly convinced of that.

Hand on heart I think he had pushed this squad 1 season to far, his methods weren't working, he wasn't going to change (as he himself said) and I think the goals we concede would have sent us down. I think the side had reached its limit last season but his refusal and unwillingness to evolve the squad combined with the boards willingness to be cheap and unambitious have combined to create a perfect storm of awfulness that would have seen us relegated under Bielsa and Still may under Marsch.

And I think the players had lost faith and once that happens its curtains.

You don't concede 60 goals in what 25 26 games and survive and the fact he didn't see that his style was very much partly to blame showed a blind spot that i don't think we would have survived.

What I find strange is some of our fans like yourself refuse to blame Bielsa at all in any way, I've never understood that?

Was Bielsa totally to blame? Absolutely not.

But was he innocent? Absolutely not.

He deserved a lot of criticism for this season as any manager with the season we had under him does.
.
Never understood how some of our fans could deem Bielsa totally blameless.

You just didn't get him that's all.

[Kennyb41]

They say a bad workman blames his tools.

The majority of them were tools. We've ended up with a Monkey when we should have the organ grinder.

[Cjay]

You just didn't get him that's all.

That's not a proper answer is it.

I gave you one so least you could do is give a proper answer?

Why was Bielsa blameless?

[John in Louisiana]

Overman
Kenny

This is not the square ball, or any other forum, we are a friendly forum, so please keep your bickering away from here.

Be nice... it is not hard..

Thank you both

This.

[weasel]

Any thoughts on this if Llorente is fit?
(I’m wearing my tin hat)

—————Meslier

Ayling. Llorente. Koch. Struijk

—————Forshaw

———Klich*——Dallas

Raphinha—James**—Harrison

* Klich - slightly more attacking roll than Dallas who could drop back to help Forshaw.
Alternatively Klich could be to the left of Dallas

** James to start if Paddy not fit enough for a full game

I personally wouldn’t start with Gelhardt as I don’t think he’s up for a full game at this level yet.
He could last a full game but I don’t think he could influence a full game.

If Llorente is fit I would more or less go with that. The only change would be Bamford instead of Klich. Play Bamford as long as he feels okay and then bring Gelhardt on - PB isn't really suited to the impact sub role so makes more sense to start him and then see if we can get the spark that Gelhardt tends to bring for the first few minutes after he comes on (he seems to not be able to play at that same level for all the time he is on the pitch).

[velo]

It's a must not lose game tomorrow, a draw is not an option normally, but our form.is so poor, it would be a step in the right direction.
A win would be massive, but dare we dream?

[weasel]

The squad (which Bielsa is very much to blame for with Orta) is so weak and lacking in genuine Premier league quality talent and so inflexible that it just felt like it was asking to much of a new manager to come in and save us.

Bielsa atleast had knowledge of the squad, the squad knew his methods and he knew them.

That being said Bielsa was taking us down , I am utterly convinced of that.

Hand on heart I think he had pushed this squad 1 season to far, his methods weren't working, he wasn't going to change (as he himself said) and I think the goals we concede would have sent us down. I think the side had reached its limit last season but his refusal and unwillingness to evolve the squad combined with the boards willingness to be cheap and unambitious have combined to create a perfect storm of awfulness that would have seen us relegated under Bielsa and Still may under Marsch.

And I think the players had lost faith and once that happens its curtains.

You don't concede 60 goals in what 25 26 games and survive and the fact he didn't see that his style was very much partly to blame showed a blind spot that i don't think we would have survived.

What I find strange is some of our fans like yourself refuse to blame Bielsa at all in any way, I've never understood that?

Was Bielsa totally to blame? Absolutely not.

But was he innocent? Absolutely not.

He deserved a lot of criticism for this season as any manager with the season we had under him does.
.
Never understood how some of our fans could deem Bielsa totally blameless.

I think there were lessons to learn with Bielsa but in terms of where we were at the decision to sack him made little sense. Yes the squad was weak with the horrendous amount of injuries and I think as a club we'd have had to assess in the summer the failings of the small squad and to what extent the injuries were because of the training and as such what the answer was. I don't think that the size of the squad was something that should contribute towards whether Bielsa should have been sacked or not as it was unchartered waters for Bielsa and I think we probably all thought we'd have less injuries than last year. It is easy to say we should have had a stronger squad but equally did we have the funds? We spent more than a lot of clubs did this summer, it can be argued we spent in the wrong area and possibly didn't spend wisely but equally we could have bought different players and be saying the same thing.
We also have to look at where we were just a couple of season ago. Even in the championship we had a small squad, Berardi, Ayling, KP having to cover the centreback positions, Alioski and Dallas getting convertted to fullbacks due to injuries. So we entered the premier league with a small squad rather than the likes of Norwich and Watford that already had larger squads. As such we were a long, long ay behind established premier league squads.
The squad does need strengthening but it isn't something that can be done overnight. Look at how much the club has already spent and I have already made the point that we probably had a stronger starting XI in the championship (bar an on form Raphinha). So that is more a concern over recruitment or that players haven't hit their potential for us yet.

So given all that and lessons to be learnt we need to really put that aside till the summer and focus on what is the present situation. The non stop injuries have been key. Without those I think all the earlier mentioned problems wouldn't have seen us in a relgation fight. So the question really is should Bielsa change the way we approach games given the results this season and the players he had at his disposal. That is a tricky one and I don't think there is a efinite right answer. Would we concede less if we went more defensive given the players we had out. Yes we probably would but equally we'd have still been unlikely to pick up points in those matches we lost. Would we then have been able to switch back to being more attacking in the matches against teams we'd hope to beat. It would likely have been disjointed as we'd have lost a lot of the automatic way of playing, as such it would probably have seen us struggle more in thos games too. It's very hard for me to say we would have got more out of this team given the lack of players available if we'd changed our way of playing. For me I agree with Bielsa sticking to his way of playing, sure I hated us being ripped open at time but the flip side was that we had the ability to blow teams away and but for poor finishing we would have had more points. Definitely think we could have been better defending set pieces, and that baffled me as to why a man who analyses things in such detail hadn' devised a better way to deal with set pieces, it doesn't affect the way the team plays so it should have been done.

So the crux of the Bielsa argument to me comes down to 2 points. Forget the recruitment, squad depth that is a lesson to be learnt. 1st point is would we have done better with less injuries and 2nd point would any manager have achieved significantly more with the same players available that Bielsa had. The answer to the 1st point is yes, so we wouldn't be in a relegation dogfight and to the 2nd point I think there are only a handful of managers in the world who would have got much more out of the players available. As such it made no sense to sack him and even if we went down we'd (assuming he stayed) have a manager in charge that had already shown he can get us out of the division and more importantly could do it with whatever tools he had available given that several players would likely leave.

[rondownunder]

On the positive, Burnley getting done by the Bees is pleasing. I can't see the bottom 3 changing if we can start taking some points. I would love nothing more than to see Fat Frank take Everton down, but I think their games in hand will save them, as will how poor the current bottom 3 (and Leeds) are.

[Jaydog]

It's a must not lose game tomorrow, a draw is not an option normally, but our form.is so poor, it would be a step in the right direction.
A win would be massive, but dare we dream?

Wow. This is an all time low. We dare to dream about beating Norwich. But it’s indicative of where we’ve ended up.
You know we were 33/1 to go down at the start of the season. I knew that was far too big after the lack of summer investment but couldn’t bring myself to take some. Would of made for good pain relief mind you.

[Siqu]

How much more politely could i have asked?

After including 'no insult intended, please can i ask? and tia' Jeez what's wrong with some folk, get a tougher thicker skin, and this overman guy, what's with him, glued to my every move and post, get over me.

Thankyou!

Lets hope our players have as much confidence as the fans if the posts on Saturday are anything to go by.
Wanted to also agree - rodrigo, raphinha, firpo - more attitude these days than WWE! Firpo injured could prove to be a big bonus i think....

[Kennyb41]

That's not a proper answer is it.

I gave you one so least you could do is give a proper answer?

Why was Bielsa blameless?

He's the manager he can't be totally blameless. He was 99/100% correct in the way he went about things with the dross.

He could've tried to park the bus, but we would've lost.

He went for points/win the best/only way he thought he and his team knew how to get them.

The goal difference didn't matter a jot to him, regardless of our league position.

He had faith in himself to acquire enough points without Goal difference coming into play.

So did i, if he altered their style it would fck them, so he stuck to what he knew they could do best.

You watch the Big Jesse now try and alter their style, it will be laughable.

[1964white]

Dreading today to be honest, seems a daft statement when I'm concerned about acquiring three points against one of the worst teams in the history of the Premier League, the point is we are not that good only winning five games all season & with a team totally lacking in quality & confidence.

My pals on the coach will no doubt be anxious & apprehensive, could be a long journey home if we perform like we did the other night, surely that horror show is the kick up the backside we need, maybe not

What will be, will be!