Leeds United v Norwich City Match Thread - Bamford starts for Leeds

[1964white]

So did i, if he altered their style it would fck them, so he stuck to what he knew they could do best.

It just goes to show how poor we are if our players are tuned in like robots & can't adapt, Kenny.

[Kennyb41]

I think there were lessons to learn with Bielsa but in terms of where we were at the decision to sack him made little sense. Yes the squad was weak with the horrendous amount of injuries and I think as a club we'd have had to assess in the summer the failings of the small squad and to what extent the injuries were because of the training and as such what the answer was. I don't think that the size of the squad was something that should contribute towards whether Bielsa should have been sacked or not as it was unchartered waters for Bielsa and I think we probably all thought we'd have less injuries than last year. It is easy to say we should have had a stronger squad but equally did we have the funds? We spent more than a lot of clubs did this summer, it can be argued we spent in the wrong area and possibly didn't spend wisely but equally we could have bought different players and be saying the same thing.
We also have to look at where we were just a couple of season ago. Even in the championship we had a small squad, Berardi, Ayling, KP having to cover the centreback positions, Alioski and Dallas getting convertted to fullbacks due to injuries. So we entered the premier league with a small squad rather than the likes of Norwich and Watford that already had larger squads. As such we were a long, long ay behind established premier league squads.
The squad does need strengthening but it isn't something that can be done overnight. Look at how much the club has already spent and I have already made the point that we probably had a stronger starting XI in the championship (bar an on form Raphinha). So that is more a concern over recruitment or that players haven't hit their potential for us yet.

So given all that and lessons to be learnt we need to really put that aside till the summer and focus on what is the present situation. The non stop injuries have been key. Without those I think all the earlier mentioned problems wouldn't have seen us in a relgation fight. So the question really is should Bielsa change the way we approach games given the results this season and the players he had at his disposal. That is a tricky one and I don't think there is a efinite right answer. Would we concede less if we went more defensive given the players we had out. Yes we probably would but equally we'd have still been unlikely to pick up points in those matches we lost. Would we then have been able to switch back to being more attacking in the matches against teams we'd hope to beat. It would likely have been disjointed as we'd have lost a lot of the automatic way of playing, as such it would probably have seen us struggle more in thos games too. It's very hard for me to say we would have got more out of this team given the lack of players available if we'd changed our way of playing. For me I agree with Bielsa sticking to his way of playing, sure I hated us being ripped open at time but the flip side was that we had the ability to blow teams away and but for poor finishing we would have had more points. Definitely think we could have been better defending set pieces, and that baffled me as to why a man who analyses things in such detail hadn' devised a better way to deal with set pieces, it doesn't affect the way the team plays so it should have been done.

So the crux of the Bielsa argument to me comes down to 2 points. Forget the recruitment, squad depth that is a lesson to be learnt. 1st point is would we have done better with less injuries and 2nd point would any manager have achieved significantly more with the same players available that Bielsa had. The answer to the 1st point is yes, so we wouldn't be in a relegation dogfight and to the 2nd point I think there are only a handful of managers in the world who would have got much more out of the players available. As such it made no sense to sack him and even if we went down we'd (assuming he stayed) have a manager in charge that had already shown he can get us out of the division and more importantly could do it with whatever tools he had available given that several players would likely leave.

I hadn't read this cjay before i replied to you.

But fck me yes! Absolutely all of it is spot on..... and i do not understand why the likes of you can't see it, forget those 4 game thrashings, we can ALL see what went wrong there, see the bigger picture of what he was all about, and what contributed to the 4 game thrashings, he's not totally blameless no, but with what he had available we were always gonna get beat, 1-0 or 4-0 doesn't fcking matter to him (or me, ok it hurts more, tough) he stuck to what he knew best and it backfired coz of the dross and the lack of the cavalry. I don't think some here will ever see it, until we're back in the wilderness and they're quietly begging for his return, but will never admit it.

[1964white]

Shirt on & the other one ready too!

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[Kennyb41]

It just goes to show how poor we are if our players are tuned in like robots & can't adapt, Kenny.

Oh Jeez 64, yes you are right!

We are really poor at anything else! It's all he could do with them, they are not good enough to adapt this lot, and you'll see it for yourself when Jesse 'adapts them'

Best of luck today i hope we get a win because i fcking love Leeds United, and i'll do you all a favour coz i'm not running good luck wise atm, and i'm gonna stick £100 on Naaaarch to win at 5/1....i hope i fcking lose!

Leeds! Leeds! Leeds!

And i'll stick a tenner on 1-3.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Rodrigo should never wear the white shirt of Leeds again, he's just a lazy individual, let's hope he is out of door along with our other mercenaries who don't want to be at ER,

And hopefully no more signings from La Liga - we get ripped off every time. Which means getting rid of Orta.

[Kennyb41]

And you're right 64, his style has come to bite him right up the arse, because when he lost his vital players, he had no other players to go to, how do we know for sure what went on in the background re - transfers? Let's take Koch and Llorente for example.

First of all they're not gonna cost Van Dyik money, that we don't have anyway, but on paper they looked like they might fit, but Bert doesn't know this until he gets a hold of them, Internationals both, so there's promise, and they're quite cheap in todays market, at least 1 might work you'd think.

A total culmination of shyte then arose during the season that even the blind should be able to see, he didn't get chance to just slip them in 1 at a time after working with them, and putting them alongside the experienced ones that actually understood Bertball, needs must arose, he had no chance/time to work with Firpo, he was thrown in.

At different stages either Koch or Llorente or Cooper or virtually EVERYBODY were either suspended, on the treatment table or in America having stitches put in, he had to throw either Forshaw/Koch/Struik into the most vital role that none were a patch on KP.
Has there ever been a point through the whole season when ALL of the above were readily available, it has been needs must throughout the year, I'm sure that with a full squad available he would've eased in Llorente/Koch alongside Cooper, and would've eased in either Koch/Struik/Forshaw to give KP a rest in some games.

We have been unbelievably unfortunate and forced into way too many square pegs, and the best 3 that actually 'got' Bertball all fcked at the same time for too long.

[DDB220]

The biggest issue that arose for the start of this season was the LB issue. Firpo has been a disaster. He has no stamina and no awareness. On the few occasions he overlaps he can never get back to defend, nor does he seem willing to try harder than jog. He has also been in part responsible for Harrison becoming poor. Harrison was a far better player with Alioski behind him and that is saying something. Whilst still not great as a defensive pair they were very good more often than not going forwards.
Similarly Rapha has suffered due the constant change at RB. The flanks need established pairings to tick and we have had no stability this season.
Another issue is playing Klich and Rodrigo together. They are too similar in terms of wanting to occupy the same spaces when we attack and wanting to distribute similarly. There is risk attached to their distribution because they try and thread the needle. One poor pass from either- which in truth is far to regular and our midfield is far too advanced to provide any defensive cover. Hence why the opposition often punished us when we lose the ball in transition.
What tended to compound this issue was Roberts coming on who was again a very similar position who also gave the ball away too often.
The poor signing at LB and the inability to replace Pablo with a truly efficient, intelligent and technically adept 10 has been our main downfall this season.
Our defence is the victim of our inability to sustain danger effectively which kept most teams on the back foot and dampened their attacking ambitions.

[BGwhite]

Think I'll listen to the match on the radio today, it won't look so bad that way !!!

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[Kennyb41]

The biggest issue that arose for the start of this season was the LB issue. Firpo has been a disaster. He has no stamina and no awareness. On the few occasions he overlaps he can never get back to defend, nor does he seem willing to try harder than jog. He has also been in part responsible for Harrison becoming poor. Harrison was a far better player with Alioski behind him and that is saying something. Whilst still not great as a defensive pair they were very good more often than not going forwards.
Similarly Rapha has suffered due the constant change at RB. The flanks need established pairings to tick and we have had no stability this season.
Another issue is playing Klich and Rodrigo together. They are too similar in terms of wanting to occupy the same spaces when we attack and wanting to distribute similarly. There is risk attached to their distribution because they try and thread the needle. One poor pass from either- which in truth is far to regular and our midfield is far too advanced to provide any defensive cover. Hence why the opposition often punished us when we lose the ball in transition.
What tended to compound this issue was Roberts coming on who was again a very similar position who also gave the ball away too often.
The poor signing at LB and the inability to replace Pablo with a truly efficient, intelligent and technically adept 10 has been our main downfall this season.
Our defence is the victim of our inability to sustain danger effectively which kept most teams on the back foot and dampened their attacking ambitions.

[DDB220]

The suggestion we were found out tactically is utter crap. We were just a pale shadow of last season in terms of our ability to attack and exert pressure.
Whilst injuries have certainly been a huge hindrance it is recruitment that has been our downfall rather than Bielsa. Bielsa continued to do what he did with a huge handicap- but he was also culpable as he had a massive say in what we needed and what we bought. To blame it all on Orta is wrong in that regards as Kenny likes to often highlight.

[Kennyb41]

The suggestion we were found out tactically is utter crap. We were just a pale shadow of last season in terms of our ability to attack and exert pressure.
Whilst injuries have certainly been a huge hindrance it is recruitment that has been our downfall rather than Bielsa. Bielsa continued to do what he did with a huge handicap- but he was also culpable as he had a massive say in what we needed and what we bought. To blame it all on Orta is wrong in that regards as Kenny likes to often highlight.

What is his job?

[Kennyb41]

Bert : " Hey Monkey, get off your backside and go and find me, i'm fcking busy running a football club here, studying other teams we're about to face, and in what little time i have, i sort the cleaners, the groundstaff, and virtually everything else from the ground up, and tell that Radz numpty to stop playing Candy crush.

1. A Trent Arnold, 2. A Van Diyk, 3. A Coutinho, 4. A David Silva, 5. A Pirlo, 6. A Mane, 7. A Mahrez, and fcking hurry up wilya"

Monkey : " Here i got you these, it's all we could afford"
Bert : " What the fck dya think i am, a wizard?"
Monkey : " Hey! That Costa's a fcking cracker, now get on with it, i've a plane to catch"
Bert : "What's that fcking Radz doing today? Where you going?"
Monkey : " Not a clue, and mind your own business. He's talking to some Yank twats about summert, i dunno"

[CarelessAir]

The biggest issue that arose for the start of this season was the LB issue. Firpo has been a disaster. He has no stamina and no awareness. On the few occasions he overlaps he can never get back to defend, nor does he seem willing to try harder than jog. He has also been in part responsible for Harrison becoming poor. Harrison was a far better player with Alioski behind him and that is saying something. Whilst still not great as a defensive pair they were very good more often than not going forwards.
Similarly Rapha has suffered due the constant change at RB. The flanks need established pairings to tick and we have had no stability this season.
Another issue is playing Klich and Rodrigo together. They are too similar in terms of wanting to occupy the same spaces when we attack and wanting to distribute similarly. There is risk attached to their distribution because they try and thread the needle. One poor pass from either- which in truth is far to regular and our midfield is far too advanced to provide any defensive cover. Hence why the opposition often punished us when we lose the ball in transition.
What tended to compound this issue was Roberts coming on who was again a very similar position who also gave the ball away too often.
The poor signing at LB and the inability to replace Pablo with a truly efficient, intelligent and technically adept 10 has been our main downfall this season.
Our defence is the victim of our inability to sustain danger effectively which kept most teams on the back foot and dampened their attacking ambitions.

Agree on Pablo, I think he would have really struggled this season with murderball still being around and given he spent a lot of last season injured, or was there more to it after his fallout and being thrown under the bus by Bielsa?

That final home game against West Brom should have been a warning on what we were letting go (along with Alioski and Berra a locker room leader), despite the rust Pablo showed his class. Not replacing him and/or Saiz is a crime.

[Chilli D]

Think I'll listen to the match on the radio today, it won't look so bad that way !!!

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I'll be out so won't be able to watch and will have to settle for checking my phone every 30 seconds!

[BGwhite]

Wouldn't worry too much, won't be many goals anyway.

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[velo]

Can't see us winning it, just realised Mike Dean is VAR, so Norwich will get 2 pens and we will have at least 1 goal disallowed

[whiteswan]

Dreading today to be honest, seems a daft statement when I'm concerned about acquiring three points against one of the worst teams in the history of the Premier League, the point is we are not that good only winning five games all season & with a team totally lacking in quality & confidence.

My pals on the coach will no doubt be anxious & apprehensive, could be a long journey home if we perform like we did the other night, surely that horror show is the kick up the backside we need, maybe not

What will be, will be!

I'll be thinking of you Leon....
I think William is also going to the game

[whiteswan]

Can't see us winning it, just realised Mike Dean is VAR, so Norwich will get 2 pens and we will have at least 1 goal disallowed

I remember him giving Bamfords finger nail offside when he was VAR before
He owes us a good turn!

[Currie14]

1 Meslier
2 Ayling
14 Llorente
21 Struijk
15 Dallas
4 Forshaw
43 Klich
10 Raphinha
19 Rodrigo
20 James
9 Bamford

Substitutes
5 Koch
13 Klaesson
22 Harrison
26 Bate
30 Gelhardt
35 Cresswell
38 Summerville
42 Greenwood
46S hackleton

Thats better........except Rod......

[velo]

I remember him giving Bamfords finger nail offside when he was VAR before
He owes us a good turn!

Don't hold ya breathe, he hates us