The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th May) Leeds haven’t done enough

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning. It's Wednesday 4th May, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road


Leeds haven’t done enough

During his latest podcast, Elland Road journalist Phil Hay laid into Leeds Utd for their lack of investment last Summer, and further criticised them for not adding to the squad in January. The former Chief Football Writer for the YEP also laid blame at Bielsa's door, insinuating that the squad was too small, and his tactics just hadn't worked this season.

A very small squad which has been badly affected by injuries, tactically hasn’t worked and didn’t work for Bielsa as it did in his first three seasons. Transfer wise, in my view, Leeds haven’t done enough to the squad and didn’t sign anyone in January when they needed to.

With hindsight, they did less than they needed to last Summer as well. That has all accumulated into a massive pressure which is right on them now, more severely than at any stage this season.

Everton ace to escape punishment this season

Everton have received a massive boost in their bid for survival, after it was revealed that the FA have paused their investigation into the flare throwing incident at the weekend. Richarlison was seen by millions worldwide, picking up a flare and throwing it into a highly condensed area of the crowd.

Merseyside police have asked the Toffee's for their observations of the incident, indicating that any police involvement needs to be concluded before the FA get involved. With 18 days of the season left, it will be next season before he faces a potential three game ban for endangering fans. According to the stats on 'Whoscored', the 24yo is not only Everton's best player, but also leading goal-scorer this season, netting eight times.





Leeds are just not good enough for this level - Collymore

Former footballer Stan Collymore would like to see Leeds relegated this season. The 51yo wrote a piece in yesterday's Mirror (where he is a columnist) stating he admired the earthiness and honesty of what Burnley bring to the table, and compared Everton's concurrent 71 years in the top flight with Leeds less than impressive record. He also insinuated that most of the Leeds players are 'just not good enough for this level'.

I want Burnley and Everton to stay up this season. I like the honesty and earthiness of what Burnley have done. And, while some think it would reflect badly on the recently sacked Sean Dyche if they do retain their Premier League status, it would actually be the opposite because every player at Turf Moor is a Dyche player.

Everton have had 119 seasons in the top division, they haven't been relegated for 71 years, and the top flight just wouldn't be the same without them. People say Leeds, on the other hand, are a big club but they have spent half of their years out of the top flight and they have too many players who are game and honest as you like but who are perhaps just not good enough for this level. "Going down would be the overegging of the Marcelo Bielsa pudding coming back to haunt them.

Cooper - Stay or Go

I've just read an interesting article about which players are expected to stay at Elland Road should the worst happen, and we find ourselves playing Championship football next season. The article insinuated that Liam Cooper isn't good enough for a Premier League move at his age, and they'd fully expect him to Captain the Whites with a big Promotion push next season. Would you agree with that, or would you like to see Charlie Cresswell take over?

The article named Meslier, Rodrigo, Raphinha, Harrison and Phillips as the players expected to depart, which if relegated would be likely to collectively fetch in the region of £100m.

[Scoobychief]

the small squad we had under bielsa was run into the ground. during lock down first season did ok, largely helped by lack of crowds at football ground and adrenelin. second season yes injuries did play a large part, but also got to consider bielsa using same players doing same thing no wonder those players were clapped out. the bottom line was also that other than kp, raph possibly bamford, and mr versalite dallas there was no quality elsewhere paticularly in midfield, klich had been burned out since end of the first season in premier league and our new signing forshaw was never any good. is it any wonder that were in this mess now.

[Kennyb41]

Collectively £100m ??????????????????????...Raphina alone will go on to make another club millions then, and Klopp will be rubbing his hands, he could now sell Salah while he's still worth a lot and has 2 good years left in him, and then buy up and coming better player in Raph for peanuts who'll be instantly worth over 100m after a few lpool games.

My heads about to blow a gasket.

They've tried to do everything on the cheap and Bert was the scapegoat, what fcking idiocy.

[Kennyb41]

Listen i'm sick of fcking arguing about Bert now myself, but will love to continue if necessary when provoked, nothing but nothing but fcking nothing will ever budge me about his genius at attacking football the beautiful way it should be played, if the fcking stupidly blind can't see that then they should give up watching football or forever go and watch Mourinho.
It says itself up there...for 3 years beautiful...then yes this year a total fck up, ffs see the bigger picture.

After Citeh there might be a chance Jesse pulls us out the shite, but the complete ba***rd clown is still here, the squad is cheap, shite and old, the brief glimpse of style Jesse might have in his locker MIGHT just do it, but the problems are still there.

[mentalcase]

Morning
PH is saying what many have been saying all season, not much else to say really.

I'd liked to have see CC a lot more this season when we were putting pegs in wrong holes, talk about after the horse has bolted !

£100 million collectively, well , thats got to be on the proviso we go down, no way would those 5 be worth only that much in the PL.

SC, yet another boring Leeds Utd hating wifebeater in a long long of boring Leeds Utd haters wanting us relegated.

Why is the silence deafening from the board !!!

[Rook]

When we are relegated we will sell any players we can get a fee for.

Even the youngsters like Summerville, Gelhardt, Bate, Hjelde and Cresswell will be scavenged by Premier League clubs.

There will be a massive exodus at Leeds this summer that will mirror what happened to us in 2004.

The difference is that we will get decent fee's for any players we sell this time.

[billysboots]

The last time we faced relegation from the Premier League we were bankrupt, are we not more financially stable this time around which would allow us to keep the players we want?

[DDB220]

No getting away from the fact we are in desperate peril, but whilst the odds are stacked against us relegation battles are often unpredictable. So I still hold some hope, but Marsch for me has to be braver with his selections.

Whilst the usual suspects can nick points off the lower teams we need the bravery of youth added to take it to the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea and at least give us a chance.

Ideally - We need a Gordon type figure who can pollinate some bravery amongst the players. We cannot always rely on Raph, who to be quite honest has been average since Christmas. Gelhardt is the nearest we have and must start all the remaking games for me.

If we go out against Arsenal with Firpo on the left against Saka he will either get sent off within 20 mins or we will be two down. It goes against the grain for me to call out players but this guy is a tourist on the pitch.

[DDB220]

The last time we faced relegation from the Premier League we were bankrupt, are we not more financially stable this time around which would allow us to keep the players we want?

Looking at the accounts we have effectively mortgaged our future premiership income with staggered payments. I think if the worst happens we will sell whatever we can, including some of the youth if we get a decent offer. We will not be able to service those payments without Premiership TV money and season ticket sales would likely halve at best. Many will protest against the board and there will be an incredibly toxic atmosphere. Whilst we will not be broke we would not be particularly healthy without further investment.
What a difference a year makes.

[danhirons]

We still get parachute payments when relegated. Selling Meslier, rapha and KP would give us more than enough to also make some quality additions to the squad for a promotion push. I'm sure Rodrigo would also go, probably the internationals Koch and Llorente. Rebuilding would definitely be needed but we wouldn't have to fire sell anyone I don't think - very different scenario to the last time we got relegated

[William]

Morning.

Some random thoughts..

I think Relegation could be a blessing in disguise, ww wont be going down skint or in debt.
Ironic that we sell Kp and Raph for £40M on relegation losing us a £80M in fees.
Parachute payments, a reduced wage bill.


But £40M in the championship gets you more value for money than £120M in the prem.

Cooper Hjelde and Cresswell at the back next season.
Ayling and Drameh out wide.
Forshaw and A N other. Perhaps the Scots kid forget his name.
Klich Costa, Poveda, Joffy, Greenwood Bate and Harrison. Dallas when fit. Bogusz.

So we have £120M to rebuild, two strikers, keeper, and some cover for injuries We come back stronger. Allowing the best of the U23s to get those games they need.

No shame in that.

[danhirons]

Looking at the accounts we have effectively mortgaged our future premiership income with staggered payments. I think if the worst happens we will sell whatever we can, including some of the youth if we get a decent offer. We will not be able to service those payments without Premiership TV money and season ticket sales would likely halve at best. Many will protest against the board and there will be an incredibly toxic atmosphere. Whilst we will not be broke we would not be particularly healthy without further investment.
What a difference a year makes.

No chance imo of any of this - season ticket sales halving?!

[William]

We still get parachute payments when relegated. Selling Meslier, rapha and KP would give us more than enough to also make some quality additions to the squad for a promotion push. I'm sure Rodrigo would also go, probably the internationals Koch and Llorente. Rebuilding would definitely be needed but we wouldn't have to fire sell anyone I don't think - very different scenario to the last time we got relegated

Yep.

[William]

Looking at the accounts we have effectively mortgaged our future premiership income with staggered payments. I think if the worst happens we will sell whatever we can, including some of the youth if we get a decent offer. We will not be able to service those payments without Premiership TV money and season ticket sales would likely halve at best. Many will protest against the board and there will be an incredibly toxic atmosphere. Whilst we will not be broke we would not be particularly healthy without further investment.
What a difference a year makes.

Sesson ticket sales will not be affected at all DD
Most of our expenditure goes on wages which hopefully can be restructured.

[DDB220]

Parachute payments are great if you can offload the liabilities. The accounts list a sizeable amount. Let’s start with players - I am not so sure we will find it easy to get a number of players off the pay roll. They may go to other clubs on loan but we will still be paying their wages to some degree. Casilla, Costa, Firpo and this may also apply to Rodrigo and LLorente. We may retain Koch if he takes a pay cut or has a relegation reduction in his contract. Same applies to Meslier. I think interest may have cooled after this season and he is still very young.
Of the 98 million we spent last season on transfers we still owe 88 million in staggered payments. Do not be fooled by the suggested profit. Balance sheets are often devised to only take account of the liabilities that fall within the accounting year. The debt still exists.

People are living in dreamworld if they think we will have a massive transfer kitty if we go down following player sales. We will have a kitty but it will be far modest than many surmise IMO.

[DDB220]

Sesson ticket sales will not be affected at all DD
Most of our expenditure goes on wages which hopefully can be restructured.

63% of our income is on wages. We brought debt 60 million plus in debt with us from the Championship. We provided improved contracts and bonus’s to all our first team players. We spent 98 million in the first transfer window which was hit my covid, so missed out on a lot of match day revenue. This season we spent another 50 million on transfers this season. We do not know how those fees were structured. Add the players bonus for staying up after season one. The figures are not great. Against two years of tv money - approx 250 million.

Much will depend on what we can accrue from player sales. Fortunately our wage bill was not crippling against the clubs revenue. But do not underestimate the existing liabilities, which we can no longer service without TV money. A lot of the sales will pay it off. The relegation release clause for Raph is a massive loss.
Additionally, Relegation effects are selling position.

[Ellandback1]

Struijk and Cresswell all day long at centre back if we go down, assuming Koch and Llrente go in the Summer.

Will be interesting at right back. Ayling or Drameh?

[Ellandback1]

63% of our income is on wages. We brought debt 60 million plus in debt with us from the Championship. We provided improved contracts and bonus’s to all our first team players. We spent 98 million in the first transfer window which was hit my covid, so missed out on a lot of match day revenue. This season we spent another 50 million on transfers this season. We do not know how those fees were structured. Add the players bonus for staying up after season one. The figures are not great. Against two years of tv money - approx 250 million.

Much will depend on what we can accrue from player sales. Fortunately our wage bill was not crippling against the clubs revenue. But do not underestimate the existing liabilities, which we can no longer service without TV money. A lot of the sales will pay it off. The relegation release clause for Raph is a massive loss.
Additionally, Relegation effects are selling position.

I thought Bielsa built the squad on a shoe string? (evil laugh)

[William]

Parachute payments are great if you can offload the liabilities. The accounts list a sizeable amount. Let’s start with players - I am not so sure we will find it easy to get a number of players off the pay roll. They may go to other clubs on loan but we will still be paying their wages to some degree. Casilla, Costa, Firpo and this may also apply to Rodrigo and LLorente. We may retain Koch if he takes a pay cut or has a relegation reduction in his contract. Same applies to Meslier. I think interest may have cooled after this season and he is still very young.
Of the 98 million we spent last season on transfers we still owe 88 million in staggered payments. Do not be fooled by the suggested profit. Balance sheets are often devised to only take account of the liabilities that fall within the accounting year. The debt still exists.

People are living in dreamworld if they think we will have a massive transfer kitty if we go down following player sales. We will have a kitty but it will be far modest than many surmise IMO.

Could you break down the £98M we spent last year on tramsfers?

Not sure what timeframe you have in mind, I have

JH £11.52
DJ £26.19
JF £13.5
KK £ 1.8

Not sure how much Bate and Summerville cost but £3M tops?

£57M.

[William]

Struijk and Cresswell all day long at centre back if we go down, assuming Koch and Llrente go in the Summer.

Will be interesting at right back. Ayling or Drameh?

Both.