Jesse Marsch

[Jaydog]

Much as I enjoyed Marcelo’s obvious distrust of the media he wasn’t averse to talking nonsense in his interviews. He was taking the piss I know

[Kennyb41]

The implementation of the previous incumbent's tactics had broken down, for a variety of reasons, but it was clear to see what those tactics were, and that they had been very successful for the previous three seasons. In any case, it has no bearing on the ability of his replacement.

The trouble with Marsch is that it isn't at all clear how he intends to set up to win games. Twelve matches is a reasonable period to expect to see some indication of the manager's intent, and how things will progress.

There's been none of that; we have been incredibly disorganised, with no indication of how the new system is supposed to break the opposition down and score goals. If anything, the more input Marsch has had, the more we have regressed and the more toothless we have looked.

Of the two games won against teams who will still play in the premier league next season, both relied on red cards and injury time goals, and in the final game which kept us up, we had reverted to the previous incumbent's formation. Whether this was a realisation by Marsch that playing our best attacker in defence was madness, or whether the players themselves had instigated a return to attacking with width is unclear, but there was shouting back and forth between the manager and the players, which suggests the players may have taken it into their own hands.

He looks out of his depth, and his motivational schtick won't get us far if things are no better after the summer. This is our time to spend what we can and redevelop the squad. The prospect of Marsch and Orta being in charge of that process fills me with dread. Get it wrong, and it could set us back years.

I don't get the complacency of those saying, give him a chance and see how it goes. We need to recruit and plan for the future now, not take a punt and hope for the best.

This is all spot on tha knows, it has also got me filled with worry and dread, my comfort seems to come from 'we can sack him if it's going wrong'...but how much time do we give him before having to find someone to get us out of the hole we could be in ?

Hypothetical yes, but still a big worry with our gash if big Jesse's gash too

And i think we are very much in a situation of .... 'taking a punt and hoping for the best'

There's a lot can go wrong, how much can we actually spend ? The clown's in charge of the money, Jesse seems to be a huge gamble - in 12 games no performance has torn up trees, definitely more negatives than positives.

The players ? Is it gonna be Jesse that sorts the gash from the gash ? Who goes, who stays ?

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Maybe it's not the country you come from, Jesse, maybe it's because you spout total bollocks, and you never stfu. Just a thought.

Or maybe you just believe that all Americans ' spout total bollocks ' and are unaware of your own prejudices ?

[Kennyb41]

So what about August, September & December?

5 wins in 26 games by the end of February

Ok 64 i try to understand where you're coming from i do, i really really do.

But if Bert hadn't been having to make do n mend all fcking season through whatever reason and he had just 1 injured player to replace, we'd have been just fine, i'm sure Bert was intelligent enough like when Barnsley battered us to fix things right, it doesn't matter if folk think folk had sussed us, he'd suss them better and play accordingly, why dya think he sometimes dragged KP off, the most integral part of the engine ?

Please don't answer.

[Kennyb41]

Or maybe you just believe that all Americans ' spout total bollocks ' and are unaware of your own prejudices ?

NOT ALL OF THEM !

That's way too big a generalisation.

[Kennyb41]

Much as I enjoyed Marcelo’s obvious distrust of the media he wasn’t averse to talking nonsense in his interviews. He was taking the piss I know

Exactly that Jay, he just did what he had to do, and gave them what shite he wanted to.

I used to like to think in the back of his mind he was thinking .....' fcking hell listen to this knobhead, do i really have to give this journalist some time he doesn't deserve '

[weasel]

Nope! She made her observations and I made mine. And I suspect that Sara is strong enough to defend herself and make her own arguments. She doesn't need a big strong Weasel like you to defend her. Or to tell me what she thinks. Now THAT is truly condescending...

Wow you do nothing to break the stereotypical views that lots of people have of Americans as being arrogant. Glad though that you now feel able to say that Sara made observations rather than your previous suggestion that she just made emotional outbursts based solely on her respect for a former manager.

And I made no attempt to tell you what Sara thinks but to also highlight that others share the same concerns even people who were of the opinion that the club was right to sack Bielsa, such as Cjay, who has raised huge concerns over how successful Marsch's tactics can be in the premier league.

[Jaydog]

Exactly that Jay, he just did what he had to do, and gave them what shite he wanted to.

I used to like to think in the back of his mind he was thinking .....' fcking hell listen to this knobhead, do i really have to give this journalist some time he doesn't deserve '

Oh yeah, 100% he was thinking that. He could speak english I’m sure. Well enough anyway. Just helped him keep the media at bay. Horrible tossers that they are.
Pretty sure he’d order his mint imperials in English in the sweet shop. Or was that Victory V’s

[1964white]

Ok 64 i try to understand where you're coming from i do, i really really do.

But if Bert hadn't been having to make do n mend all fcking season through whatever reason and he had just 1 injured player to replace, we'd have been just fine, i'm sure Bert was intelligent enough like when Barnsley battered us to fix things right, it doesn't matter if folk think folk had sussed us, he'd suss them better and play accordingly, why dya think he sometimes dragged KP off, the most integral part of the engine ?

Please don't answer.

Marsch inherited the same problems as Marcelo, poor recruitment when we required more.

Barnsley never battered us under Bielsa, we won both games in his tenure.

Kalvin was subbed tactically or when he was having a poor game.

Talking about Barnsley v Leeds, one of my best days out in our championship years

[weasel]

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but the performances and tactics under the previous incumbent were horrific too.

Don't know how long you have been a fan but horrible performances and bad runs had been a feature under Bielsa during all his time at Leeds just as much as great performances and swashbuckling football. In our promotion season we won 7 matches in a row. We then went on a run of 12 matches in which we only won twice and included 7 defeats. We then reeled off 5 successive wins.

I highlight this to show how easily things can change in football especially with this side under Bielsa. In a season where we played so well we had a horrific 2 month spell. All the people suggesting that we were in freefall under Bielsa and that he couldn't turn it around ignore the evidence of Bielsa's time in charge. I'm sure a few fans were calling for him to be sacked during the bad run in our promotion season, questioning his tactics, questioning the small squad, the Bielsa burnout, the round pegs etc. Suddenly we win 5 games on the bounce (only interrupted because of the covid outbreak) and the same fans forget the bad run.

When trying to reach conclusions it is best to use as much evidence to support your conclusions rather than just an opinion.

[weasel]

Well there is a double page article today in the YEP entitled ' Marsch hits out at the prejudice in the UK media '

It starts with ;

' Jesse Marsch has hit out at prejudice he says he has faced simply for being an American since taking over at LUFC '

It then goes on ;

"He believes that whilst some of the treatment he has had as an American in the English game is based on what happens on the pitch, he has experienced a form of prejudice. "

" I said from the beginning there's a lot more horrible things happening in the world than me being ridiculed for my accent or being American " he said. " We can call it whatever you want, xenophobia or whatever, but it's a form of prejudice. Some people don't allow that kind of behaviour to happen, and will treat me based on what I am or what our team is, that's ultimately what it should be. "

Perhaps read what you wrote. Prejudice in the UK media is not prejudice from the fans. The media will use his nationality at every opportunity, that is the story with Marsch for them. As Kenny has already said his nationality is of no importance it is what happens on the pitch. Jesse Marsch could come round to my house every day of the week and spit in my face while singing the star spangled banner and I would welcome it if it somehow helped the team win matches. Not every German manager succeeds, not every spanish manager succeeds, not every argentinian manager suceeds, nationality is of no importance, tactics and being a good manager is important so it is up to Marsch to show us he has good tactics and is a good manager.

[March712]

Don't know how long you have been a fan but horrible performances and bad runs had been a feature under Bielsa during all his time at Leeds just as much as great performances and swashbuckling football. In our promotion season we won 7 matches in a row. We then went on a run of 12 matches in which we only won twice and included 7 defeats. We then reeled off 5 successive wins.

I highlight this to show how easily things can change in football especially with this side under Bielsa. In a season where we played so well we had a horrific 2 month spell. All the people suggesting that we were in freefall under Bielsa and that he couldn't turn it around ignore the evidence of Bielsa's time in charge. I'm sure a few fans were calling for him to be sacked during the bad run in our promotion season, questioning his tactics, questioning the small squad, the Bielsa burnout, the round pegs etc. Suddenly we win 5 games on the bounce (only interrupted because of the covid outbreak) and the same fans forget the bad run.

When trying to reach conclusions it is best to use as much evidence to support your conclusions rather than just an opinion.

I have been a fan since the early 1970s, though I am not sure what relevance that has to anything, other than you simply having a dig.

I must apologise, I did not realise opinions were forbidden on here; who said anything about reaching conclusions?

[Kennyb41]

These concerns speak to the lack of continuity and succession planning. Marsch was supposed to be building on a development of our style, but we have a squad full of wingers, and he plays a narrow formation which doesn't utilise them. He had Raphinha, our best player, taking Pulis style long throws and playing at right back. He had Phillips, our second best player, renowned for his long range passing, crammed into a packed midfield, with players tripping over each other and with no room to pass effectively or move the ball forward. If we build the squad he wants, and it doesn't work, we will have wasted our investment. Even if it does work, it's unlikely to be very effective, based on the other teams who play that way.

You're frightening me to death Sara you know that dontcha, what with everything that could and probably will become fact.

There is a slight chance it might work isn't there ?

[Kennyb41]

But I don't believe all Americans spout bollocks. Four of my five favourite history and philosophy podcasts are by Americans, and I spend hours listening to them. I don't carry prejudices against people based on their nationality or race; in fact I actively oppose such attitudes.

Maybe you are unaware of your own prejudices. Maybe you just have an axe to grind, and are trying to impugn my character rather than discussing the footballing merits, or otherwise, of our manager.

She's right Chapel, it definitely isn't ALL, that would mean 100%, and it's not that many.

[weasel]

We seem to have resorted to people not debating but dismissing views based not on the points but because they suggest the points are made by people who liked the previous manager. As such I would like to invite people like 64, Chapel, mental and others to instead give their views regarding Marsch on the 3 topics below - please stick to these topics rather than going off on tangents so we can have proper debate.

1 ) Did changing the style mid-season to one not suited to the players help or hinder them?

2) Can Marsch's favoured tactics (based on what we expect his tactics to be rather than what we have seen so far as JM himself has already said he hasn't really implemented his tactics so far) be successful in the Premier League?

3) Is building the squad to suit the manager a good idea or does it make more sense to have long term planning and go down the route of only hiring managers who plays a similar way (sort of like what Barca used to do and promoted from within after giving ex players the chance to manage their U21 teams) so that the youth can be also trained to play a certain way too?

[weasel]

I have been a fan since the early 1970s, though I am not sure what relevance that has to anything, other than you simply having a dig.

I must apologise, I did not realise opinions were forbidden on here; who said anything about reaching conclusions?

Apology accepted - backing up why you have a certain opinion and using evidence where possible helps substantiate your opinion. Cjay is a great example of someone being able to do this.

The relevance of how long you had been a fan was in relation to you having the opportunity to see the bad run in the championship winning season under Bielsa in relation as to how us being in freefall didn't mean it was a foregone conclusion we would have crashed and burned and also how a bad month or two can, and was, swiflty able to change.

[mentalcase]

We seem to have resorted to people not debating but dismissing views based not on the points but because they suggest the points are made by people who liked the previous manager. As such I would like to invite people like 64, Chapel, mental and others to instead give their views regarding Marsch on the 3 topics below - please stick to these topics rather than going off on tangents so we can have proper debate.

1 ) Did changing the style mid-season to one not suited to the players help or hinder them?

2) Can Marsch's favoured tactics (based on what we expect his tactics to be rather than what we have seen so far as JM himself has already said he hasn't really implemented his tactics so far) be successful in the Premier League?

3) Is building the squad to suit the manager a good idea or does it make more sense to have long term planning and go down the route of only hiring managers who plays a similar way (sort of like what Barca used to do and promoted from within after giving ex players the chance to manage their U21 teams) so that the youth can be also trained to play a certain way too?

I'm totally done with silly pointless debates about a manager who was SACKED because he was inept at his job, if you, and others want to debate it, hoping, forlornly, lovingly,that one day he'll be back, posting cringeworthy stats, crack on, I'm 100% behind the new regime.
It would be really nice if a thread / post didn't get hijacked by the bielsa bunnies though, just saying.

[SG90]

What I don't understand is is why Eddie Howe being showered with praise for saving Newcastle while Marsch is ridiculed for doing the same? One spent £100m less than the other too!

[March712]

Apology accepted - backing up why you have a certain opinion and using evidence where possible helps substantiate your opinion. Cjay is a great example of someone being able to do this.

The relevance of how long you had been a fan was in relation to you having the opportunity to see the bad run in the championship winning season under Bielsa in relation as to how us being in freefall didn't mean it was a foregone conclusion we would have crashed and burned and also how a bad month or two can, and was, swiflty able to change.

With respect though and having regard to the relative strength of the squads in each case (injuries aside), our bad run in the Championship compared with what was happening in the Premier League this season bears little comparison; Leeds United was struggling on several fronts, for a variety of reasons.

In conclusion, we will never know whether Bielsa would have avoided relegation, it is simply one opinion versus another...you (and many others) have yours and I have mine, that is the way it is.

Equally, who knows whether Marsch will be a success, I too have my doubts, but there is little else we as fans can do at present, other than moan about him, or buy the club and replace him and one of those options is more realistic than the other.

[March712]

You're definitely new! The usual pattern is, express opinions contrary to a certain consensus, get insulted, thread gets locked, people leave or get banned.

It's going that way already, isn't it. Express doubts or criticisms about the manager, get called hysterical and xenophobic, situation gets portrayed as one faction against another, actual discussion becomes impossible.