Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard

[weasel]

She didn't really embark on anything though, as in she didn't commence any proceedings. I don't think she had much of a career to begin with.

I'm not sure about his career, every film will come with a slew of reviews pointing out that he lost a challenge to his description as a wife beater in the UK. And a slew of memes on social media showing whatever character he plays talking about f**king a burnt corpse. I can't imagine he'll get too many family friendly roles.

Basically it (accusing Depp of Domestic Violence) was her way of keeping herself in the public eye as her career wasn't going anywhere. She'd had her 'breakout' role in the Aquaman movie (which many see as her only getting it as Depp asked for her to get the role as a favour). She had no chemistry on set with the lead actor and it was looking unlikely that she'd be cast in the next Aquaman movie. As such her career as a frontline actress was basically over and she was in danger of becoming irrelevant.

The UK verdict appears seriously flawed. The judge who made the decision has since retired. There were huge inconsistencies with what evience he deemed reliable - he rejected witness statements from witnesses as they'd been asked (on email) to lie by Heard, so the judge said they couldn't be trusted yet allowed Heard's statements as being honest (despite her being the one to ask the others to lie). He rejected the audio evidence (taped by Heard but showing her in a bad i.e. her saying that she hit him, not punched him etc) as he said it wasn't as reliable as evidence given by someone on the witness stand (as they would have sworn to tell the truth whereas on audio they could have been lying).

The burnt corpse thing came accross as a man who had simply had too much (of her lies and abuse) and simply wanted her completely out of her life (and by f*cking her dead corpse would make sure she was dead). Whilst it isn't a nice comment it was not a public statement (I believe it was in a private email to the actor Paul Bettany) and I am sure we all have said or written something that was a joke that taken out of context doesn't read well. By bringing up the courtcase Depp had to expose his whole life (every email, text conversation etc could be looked at by the defence team) and his drink and drugs abuse etc - I doubt any of us would want our whole life brought into the public eye (even if we have lived relatively boring lives).

One big thing that has come out of this trial is that men will hopefully feel braver about coming forward and speaking up against violent women. It has been seen as men being weak - on a similar way to how male victims of sexual abuse (As children) would feel ashamed to bring it up.

[Mountain]

The burnt corpse thing came accross as a man who had simply had too much (of her lies and abuse) and simply wanted her completely out of her life (and by f*cking her dead corpse would make sure she was dead).

Wanted her out of his life?

He went on to marry her 2 years after the "fxxking her burnt corpse" text

[weasel]

Wanted her out of his life?

He went on to marry her 2 years after the "fxxking her burnt corpse" text

That's love for you - makes no sense. Hated her so much at times but still loved her and thought he could make it work. Classic way that abusers work in that they make you feel so sh*t about yourself but then you end up craving them and so needy for their love because you feel so worthless.

It shows he knew he needed to get out of the relationship, from an early point, but still kept trying to make it work. I think he loved her but I think although Heard may have loved him at one point it was more the lifestlye that she (and her entourage) loved and the being famous.

[Mountain]

That's love for you - makes no sense. Hated her so much at times but still loved her and thought he could make it work. Classic way that abusers work in that they make you feel so sh*t about yourself but then you end up craving them and so needy for their love because you feel so worthless.

It shows he knew he needed to get out of the relationship, from an early point, but still kept trying to make it work. I think he loved her but I think although Heard may have loved him at one point it was more the lifestlye that she (and her entourage) loved and the being famous.

Ah come on, we're on serious danger of turning Depp into a victim. Maybe he was a wife beater, maybe he wasn't, we now have decisions going each way. But even if he never beat her, we can still criticise his behaviour. And for me texting a friend and saying he'd love to f**k a woman's burnt corpse is not "love for you". It does not point to her being an abuser and him feeling worthless because he loves her so much. Nor is it evidence of "trying to make a relationship work". To me it sounds like him being an incredibly weird asshole. It's not a crime, but for me it's not edifying in any way.

[weasel]

Ah come on, we're on serious danger of turning Depp into a victim. Maybe he was a wife beater, maybe he wasn't, we now have decisions going each way. But even if he never beat her, we can still criticise his behaviour. And for me texting a friend and saying he'd love to f**k a woman's burnt corpse is not "love for you". It does not point to her being an abuser and him feeling worthless because he loves her so much. Nor is it evidence of "trying to make a relationship work". To me it sounds like him being an incredibly weird asshole. It's not a crime, but for me it's not edifying in any way.

You make the key point there. What Depp did in the texts and emails wasn't a crime. The only crime Depp committed was the drug taking.

As you say we can criticise his behaviour, he was in a pretty toxic relationship. HOWEVER the case was about whether Amber Heard had defamded him by writing the article in which she said he (although she never used his name but it was clear to the jury that it was written about him) had physically abused her.

And yes Depp was the victim. Heard punched him in full view of witnesses (trying to excuse her actions by suggesting Depp was about to push her sister down some stairs and alleging that he had done that to Kate Moss - and which Kate Moss totally denied had happened. She also admitted to hitting him, her defence being that she wasn't punching him. So yes Depp was the victim of domestic abuse and it is attitudes like yours that make it harder for men to come forward and be believed.

I suggest you watch the whole trial and see and hear all the evidence rather than simply picking up snippets.

[hector]

You make the key point there. What Depp did in the texts and emails wasn't a crime. The only crime Depp committed was the drug taking.

As you say we can criticise his behaviour, he was in a pretty toxic relationship. HOWEVER the case was about whether Amber Heard had defamded him by writing the article in which she said he (although she never used his name but it was clear to the jury that it was written about him) had physically abused her.

And yes Depp was the victim. Heard punched him in full view of witnesses (trying to excuse her actions by suggesting Depp was about to push her sister down some stairs and alleging that he had done that to Kate Moss - and which Kate Moss totally denied had happened. She also admitted to hitting him, her defence being that she wasn't punching him. So yes Depp was the victim of domestic abuse and it is attitudes like yours that make it harder for men to come forward and be believed.

I suggest you watch the whole trial and see and hear all the evidence rather than simply picking up snippets.

That for me is the key line Weasel...

Apart from you, I don't think any of us has done that......, so are only going from headlines and click bait snippets....

[Mountain]

My job means I spend a lot of time in family courts hearing about domestic abuse, sometimes defending those accused, sometimes seeking orders for victims.
So I don't have the inclination to sit through days of evidence from a case in the USA!

But I can say with certainty that if he did indeed play the "I said I'd f**k her burnt corpse out of love" card here in a Court in Ireland, it would not go down well.

[weasel]

My job means I spend a lot of time in family courts hearing about domestic abuse, sometimes defending those accused, sometimes seeking orders for victims.
So I don't have the inclination to sit through days of evidence from a case in the USA!

But I can say with certainty that if he did indeed play the "I said I'd f**k her burnt corpse out of love" card here in a Court in Ireland, it would not go down well.

A huge difference saying something like that, distasteful as it was, and actually doing it. Again distasteful as it was it was part of a longer conversation (via text or email) in which I think was along the lines of him wanting to get away from her and joking that the only way he'd get away from her clutches would be if she were dead and Depp was saying that he'd have to f*ck her burnt corpse to make sure she was dead. Twisted humour between mates rather than him saying it to her.

* Note I am only guessing to some degree to the full conversation as the defence team that brought it up chose to only show selected bits of the conversation so as to make it sound worse rather than the whole conversation.

I find it strange that you say you deal with domestic abuse in your job yet don't see Depp as a victim of domestic abuse when he clearly was. I am sure in your job you would also want to get full facts (or as much as you can get) rather than relying on someone potentially lying.

[Mountain]

A huge difference saying something like that, distasteful as it was, and actually doing it.
...
I find it strange that you say you deal with domestic abuse in your job yet don't see Depp as a victim of domestic abuse when he clearly was. I am sure in your job you would also want to get full facts (or as much as you can get) rather than relying on someone potentially lying.

Oh I fully appreciate he only said he'd like to f**k her burnt corpse, bit didn't actually burn her and f**k her dead body! It's incredibly weird and aggressive to me, but that's subjective, you are entitled to think it might come up in standard banter.

As I didn't follow it as closely as you, was there a finding that he was the victim of domestic abuse? in which Court? Did he go to the police or seek any orders at any time? Did the Courts in either the UK or the USA actually make findings that she assaulted him? If it was as clear as you say, are the police following it up and referring the matter to district attorneys?

[weasel]

Oh I fully appreciate he only said he'd like to f**k her burnt corpse, bit didn't actually burn her and f**k her dead body! It's incredibly weird and aggressive to me, but that's subjective, you are entitled to think it might come up in standard banter.

As I didn't follow it as closely as you, was there a finding that he was the victim of domestic abuse? in which Court? Did he go to the police or seek any orders at any time? Did the Courts in either the UK or the USA actually make findings that she assaulted him? If it was as clear as you say, are the police following it up and referring the matter to district attorneys?

The actual rulings were based solely on the defamation issues - basically that she lied about him physical abusing her. No charges as such have ever been filed against either of them for domestic abuse or physical assaults. Basically she alleged he hit her but never presed charges.

Depp didn't bring up that she was she was actually physically abusing him. I think if he'd brought it up prior to the court cases it would have been career suicide for him as he would have been seen as the pirate who was being beaten up by women. I think he would have rather simply have let everything blow over and move on but because Heard kept accusing him he was left with little choice ut to reveal everything (which also meant having to share text messages, emails, web history etc).

Heard did take out a restraining order against Depp. It was more for show (and PR) though as he was out of the country embarking on a 3 month tour so wasn't even on the same continent as him. To get the restraining order you don't need any actual evidence of abuse etc, you don't need doctor's records (of which there were none anyway) or any police evidence (the police were twice called out to Depp'spenthouse but all officers swore in their statements that they saw no marks at all on Heard and had no reason to suspect any physical abuse was going on).