Victor Orta

[Leeds1000]

I have worked out that the mutual consent was for his own safety. Save him from the Spurs game and thousands of pairs of eyes burning into his soul. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy....

Did i hear someone say Rodrigo was a hit......

Give me Rutter anyday. At least he may turn into a good player one day.

[Cjay]

Think ultimately his entire recruitment strategy was a pipe dream in the Premier League and it was enabled by Radz because it was his as well.

The idea your primary focus on every signing is on sell on potential rather than the best player for us at the moment is utterly ludicrous.

The fact Orta has never ever managed to prove he can do this successfully makes it worse

And it meant we signed players miles off Premier league ready (Rutter, Aaronson etc).

And then had the issue our core experienced players (who weren't world beaters in the first place) started to fade with age or whatever.

So we were stuck in a loop.

It was highlighted for me in the summer where we were linked with Martin Terrier.

A player who ticked a lot of boxes and had just had an excellent season in France 21 goals 4 assists in roughly 31 matches.

We turned him down because he was 25 and Orta was worried about his sell on potential (didn't matter that he was coming into his prime years).

What happened?

He got 12 goals and 5 assists pre World Cup and was being talked about as a potential France World Cup player and linked to the biggest clubs in Europe before he did his ACL.

But he wasn't right for us because of his age (25).

Absolutely ludicrous strategy

[Jaydog]

I have worked out that the mutual consent was for his own safety. Save him from the Spurs game and thousands of pairs of eyes burning into his soul. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy....

Did i hear someone say Rodrigo was a hit......

Give me Rutter anyday. At least he may turn into a good player one day.

In Cockney rhyming slang Rodrigo would be a “miss & hit”.

[Orange Box]

what?

Even the staff?

Of course, I bet they were all from the accounts department at Grace Brothers

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Of course he was liked, he pointlessly resurrected most of their failing careers.

And sorted out long contracts on 70 or 80k a week for the likes of Paddy. I'm sure that many players liked him...

[Irish Ian]

I suppose some people don't know what it is like to be well regarded..

https://www.leedsunited.news/news/ben-p ... departure/

Lets see how long it is before

1. He has a new gig and
2. A new scapegoat will be pride of place in the crosshairs..

[Cjay]

I suppose some people don't know what it is like to be well regarded..

https://www.leedsunited.news/news/ben-p ... departure/

Lets see how long it is before

1. He has a new gig and
2. A new scapegoat will be pride of place in the crosshairs..

He's been handing them out massive contracts despite not deserving it.

I don't doubt he's popular

He will get a new gig fairly easily.

Football is full of people doing poor to mediocre jobs and getting job after job.

[weasel]

Think ultimately his entire recruitment strategy was a pipe dream in the Premier League and it was enabled by Radz because it was his as well.

The idea your primary focus on every signing is on sell on potential rather than the best player for us at the moment is utterly ludicrous.

The fact Orta has never ever managed to prove he can do this successfully makes it worse

And it meant we signed players miles off Premier league ready (Rutter, Aaronson etc).

And then had the issue our core experienced players (who weren't world beaters in the first place) started to fade with age or whatever.

So we were stuck in a loop.

It was highlighted for me in the summer where we were linked with Martin Terrier.

A player who ticked a lot of boxes and had just had an excellent season in France 21 goals 4 assists in roughly 31 matches.

We turned him down because he was 25 and Orta was worried about his sell on potential (didn't matter that he was coming into his prime years).

What happened?

He got 12 goals and 5 assists pre World Cup and was being talked about as a potential France World Cup player and linked to the biggest clubs in Europe before he did his ACL.

But he wasn't right for us because of his age (25).

Absolutely ludicrous strategy

I think it can work but you just have to be a lot better at spotting players and like with your example with Terrier also sign players that you feel are about to hit their full potnetial. If you do that, as with Raphinha, then the player comes in, does really well for a couple of seasons, the team is better, and you then sell for the profit.

The trouble we have is that despite all the players bought by Orta we have only sold two for a profitone was Raphinha and the other was Calub Ekuban. For all the countless other players bought I think only Adams, Gnonto, Summerville and Struyjk would be able to be sold for a decent profit (and if rumours are true that Adams has a relegation release clause we may actually make a loss on him). Messlier we may get a bit more back than we paid for him ad also Wober. Any profits though will be dwarfed by the amount we have wasted on Costa and JKA alone.

Leicester was given as the great example. But if Leicester hadn't won something like 7 on the bounce to avoid relelgation then they'd have gone down and not won the premier league. No FA Cup win either and their best players picked up for peanuts. Leicester would have likely just been another yo-yo club. As it was for a short period they signed very well. But given how they have done this year it could certainly be argued that they just got lucky with a few signings all at once and for every ten clubs who made a load of bad signings Leicester spun the roulette wheel and got lucky several times in quick succession. Same story with Southampton a few years previosuly when a few goof players all came through at once, same as us when we had a few youngsters come through and also signed well for a couple of years. It happens but appears to be more luck, or simply probability in that it happens to one club, rather than some great plan.

As it is though when you have a Sporting Director and are spending fortunes on research etc you should be doing better than just relying on luck.

[Irish Ian]

He's been handing them out massive contracts despite not deserving it.

I don't doubt he's popular

He will get a new gig fairly easily.

Football is full of people doing poor to mediocre jobs and getting job after job.

Did you read the article before posting that?

[Sara]

Did you read the article before posting that?

All it says is that people liked his enthusiasm. That's not a comment on the quality of his work.

Why do you feel he is being treated as a scapegoat? Maybe address the specific criticisms that have been made, if you feel they are unfair.

[weasel]

All it says is that people liked his enthusiasm. That's not a comment on the quality of his work.

Why do you feel he is being treated as a scapegoat? Maybe address the specific criticisms that have been made, if you feel they are unfair.

It's not about him being popular it is about how good he was at his job, and he has been poor. Everyone can love the office clown but if he does something work related that threatens the existence of the company you work for and your job then suddenly you don't find him quite so funny any more. Orta's incompetence if it results in our relegation could well lead to us trimming finances and cutting down on the amount of office staff we employ. Am sure they will all be thinking 'Good ol' mophead' as they struggle to pay their mortgages and put food on the table.

[Leeds1000]

In Cockney rhyming slang Rodrigo would be a “miss & hit”.

I would certainly have him somewhere in the middle.

[Irish Ian]

All it says is that people liked his enthusiasm. That's not a comment on the quality of his work.

Why do you feel he is being treated as a scapegoat? Maybe address the specific criticisms that have been made, if you feel they are unfair.

Sara I am not saying he doesnt deserve criticism.

The Rutter transfer was enough for me.

However I try and be fair minded. Some states earlier in the week how he was disliked at EL. My posts were in response to that.

Interestingly the accusers go silent when counter info is presented..

My opinion.

We were fed an Orta sacking to pacify us by what is left of the board.

But what everyone forgets is that apart from 1% of people, the rest fall short in sport, so it is easy point the finger at our latest calamity.

And the bean counters try and add up the value of one transfer over the next.
It's pointless.

On another note your comments re sport and business.

Professional sport began as a distraction of the rich to facilitate betting.
The numbers may change but that principle hasnt.

Once you get over that reality it you tend to stress less about the comings and goings.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Good post on The Square Ball about Victor Orta

https://www.thesquareball.net/leeds-uni ... r-an-idea/

[Sara]

Sara I am not saying he doesnt deserve criticism.

The Rutter transfer was enough for me.

However I try and be fair minded. Some states earlier in the week how he was disliked at EL. My posts were in response to that.

Interestingly the accusers go silent when counter info is presented..

My opinion.

We were fed an Orta sacking to pacify us by what is left of the board.

But what everyone forgets is that apart from 1% of people, the rest fall short in sport, so it is easy point the finger at our latest calamity.

And the bean counters try and add up the value of one transfer over the next.
It's pointless.

On another note your comments re sport and business.

Professional sport began as a distraction of the rich to facilitate betting.
The numbers may change but that principle hasnt.

Once you get over that reality it you tend to stress less about the comings and goings.

I'm still more concerned about the way Orta engineered things to bolster his own influence, rather than the success or failure of individual signings. I accept that there is a fairly low hit rate in the transfer market generally.

The scouting department at Leeds is apparently very small by premier league standards, despite hundreds of millions being spent on the club. It seems that we have never really had a professional or accountable set up under Orta, it's just been him and his 'projects'. This has led over time to a mish mash of a squad, and to the replacement of our best manager in a generation with two abject failures.

I'm hearing today (from a source I trust) about the divisions in the dressing room being between the players of the promotion team who give everything for the club, and signings like McKennie who don't want to be here, and don't give a s**t. If we go down, it will be this that has killed us, more than anything, and Orta has to be held accountable as it is a direct result of his policy and influence.

Sport itself is not a distraction of the rich. Professionalism, ie sport being subsumed by the market, ultimately has the same deleterious effect as on everything else which becomes primarily about the accumulation of money. I said I blamed Preston North End as the original worshippers of Mammon!

[Kennyb41]

Indeed. Douglas was a complete failure. Injured most of the time and not suited to a full back role in a Bielsa team when he was fit as was evidenced by Alioski and Dallas being preferred when DOuglas was fit. Bought by the stats obsessed Orta simply because he'd had a load of assists for Wolves the season prior. £3m he cost and it was £3m wasted.

Saiz definitely not a hit. Sure he was brilliant for a short while but any player can look brilliant over a short period. Even Pawel Cbioski (or whatever the f*ck his name was) had one good game for us getting a couple of assists against QPR (I think).

Nketiah a classic example of Orta getting a player in that Bielsa didn't want. A player totally unsuited to the Bielsa way of playing. Came accross as Orta trying to look good by getting a player in from Arsenal, good player but if the manager doesn't want him then no point getting him. It makes you wonder if Bielsa wanted JKA or again whether Orta just plonked a striker on Bielsa and Bielsa just made the polite noises, saying how JKA had been a telented youth etc, whilst knowing he wasn't really going to figure much as I don't even think a fully fit JKA was going to do the work that Bamford does.

It absolutely boils my pizz, to think the fcking idiots at the club and fans couldn't see through this fraud and we lost the greatest thing to ever happen to this club in my lifetime, complete fcking imbeciles the lot of em, as if Bert had the time to proper scout people, you have to trust your director these days I just can't take anybody serious that couldn't see all that.

[Clacton White]

I have worked out that the mutual consent was for his own safety. Save him from the Spurs game and thousands of pairs of eyes burning into his soul. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy....

Did i hear someone say Rodrigo was a hit......

Give me Rutter anyday. At least he may turn into a good player one day.

I would say Rodrigo was or is somewhere between .He has had some good spells but also some awful , though generally he isn't a missed of sitters such as Bamford has been , some Bamford misses are awful and there have been spells with him where he could miss the easiest of chances .Let's not also forget Bamford himself was a player bought after other choices were no longer available , a typical Orta signing in that I have $xxm to spend and I AM going to spend it ( sorry for some reason I don't have a pound sign !). Look at early Orta signings , players who if they played , appeared barely then went on loan .I had forgotten about some players signed from England such as Douglas , the many failed loans ( usually Chelscum ) , mainly because they were exactly that , forgettable. Some of those rated as hits I would say are marginal , of course he has had some success but far more failure. I really don't think Leeds will miss him but would watch his next move with some interest to see how that goes......good luck to the club foolish enough to take him on , unless it's Chelscum and they deserve it

[Kennyb41]

It's just all pretty much plain and simple to me and always has been.

Radz is as much to blame as anyone but he won't fire himself.

1. Radz's hiring of Orta proves to me he knows nothing about football.

2. Orta has a list as long as my arm, but best summed up to prove he knows fck all by the A. Buying Sack O Shite and a gazillion other misfits and B. The fatal error of sacking Bert.

3.They and us all got lucky with Bert or we'd still be in the Championship and perhaps Radz would be penniless.

[Kennyb41]

I'm still more concerned about the way Orta engineered things to bolster his own influence, rather than the success or failure of individual signings. I accept that there is a fairly low hit rate in the transfer market generally.

The scouting department at Leeds is apparently very small by premier league standards, despite hundreds of millions being spent on the club. It seems that we have never really had a professional or accountable set up under Orta, it's just been him and his 'projects'. This has led over time to a mish mash of a squad, and to the replacement of our best manager in a generation with two abject failures.

I'm hearing today (from a source I trust) about the divisions in the dressing room being between the players of the promotion team who give everything for the club, and signings like McKennie who don't want to be here, and don't give a s**t. If we go down, it will be this that has killed us, more than anything, and Orta has to be held accountable as it is a direct result of his policy and influence.

Sport itself is not a distraction of the rich. Professionalism, ie sport being subsumed by the market, ultimately has the same deleterious effect as on everything else which becomes primarily about the accumulation of money. I said I blamed Preston North End as the original worshippers of Mammon!

Jeez i really enjoy yours and Weasels posts.

Is that not 'gammon' at the end, or am i off to Google 'Mammon' ?

[whiteinfrance]

From what I remember Bielsa said he wanted Bamford and no-one else