Jean-Kévin Augustin-Appealing wage compensation

[Cjay]

So maybe up to £30m for 50 minutes on a football pitch - quite possibly the worst deal in sporting history, never mind football history....That's about £600,000 per minute JKA played.

There's lots of ordinary people who wont have earned £600,000 in a lifetime of working...

It's not great to say the least even if JKA let's us off.

We were paying his £92k a week salary whilst he was here, that is just over £2mil (£2.3mil) for that spell. Don't forget we did similar with Nketiah in terms of wages and loan fee.

We also paid Leipzig a loan fee of between £1.5-2mil according to BILD who it has to be said have been spot on throughout this as Leipzig's mouthpiece so no reason to doubt them now.

So you are pushing £4mil already and the £18mil judgement takes us past £20mil (somewhere around £22mil) which puts us up at about £460k a minute.

The previous case I mentioned involving Ricky Alvarez the player did sue Sunderland and won.

He was awarded £4.8mil I think. Wasn't his full claim was just a portion.

Even if JKA agreed to half given its apparently a £90k a week 5 year deal atleast then that is just over £11mil.

So you are now pushing £35mil best case scenario all in.

If JKA does try to get his wages we need to offer him a settlement, don't let it go to court.

[Mountain]

We better hope JKA isn't vindictive or short of a few pounds.

In fairness to him, if that's the contract that was put to him, he is entitled to stand on it. I wouldn't say someone is vindictive for simply enforcing the contract that he entered with the club.

And unlike the Emiliano Sala situation, where I presume insurance would have covered payments due, I presume in this there is no insurance for a drafting what seems to be an awful contract.

[Cjay]

In fairness to him, if that's the contract that was put to him, he is entitled to stand on it. I wouldn't say someone is vindictive for simply enforcing the contract that he entered with the club.

And unlike the Emiliano Sala situation, where I presume insurance would have covered payments due, I presume in this there is no insurance for a drafting what seems to be an awful contract.

Yeah true I wouldn't blame JKA if he did come after the money he is entitled to.

But we need to hope he wants to move on and draw a line.

If necessary approach him and offer him a portion.

Because if it really is a £90k a week 5 year deal then that's over £20mil.

Offer him say £5mil and hope he takes it.

[Byebyegeegee]

It's not great to say the least even if JKA let's us off.

We were paying his £92k a week salary whilst he was here, that is just over £2mil (£2.3mil) for that spell. Don't forget we did similar with Nketiah in terms of wages and loan fee.

We also paid Leipzig a loan fee of between £1.5-2mil according to BILD who it has to be said have been spot on throughout this as Leipzig's mouthpiece so no reason to doubt them now.

So you are pushing £4mil already and the £18mil judgement takes us past £20mil (somewhere around £22mil) which puts us up at about £460k a minute.

The previous case I mentioned involving Ricky Alvarez the player did sue Sunderland and won.

He was awarded £4.8mil I think. Wasn't his full claim was just a portion.

Even if JKA agreed to half given its apparently a £90k a week 5 year deal atleast then that is just over £11mil.

So you are now pushing £35mil best case scenario all in.

If JKA does try to get his wages we need to offer him a settlement, don't let it go to court.

And all the money spent on legal costs which will also be a pretty penny!

[Mountain]

The only thing I will say is that while it looks like a complete s**tshow of a contract, I guess ultimately it's Radrizzani's money and the fact that Orta is still in a job suggests that AR knew of and was comfortable with the contract terms, and isn't blaming Orta for them.

[The Subhuman]

The only thing I will say is that while it looks like a complete s**tshow of a contract, I guess ultimately it's Radrizzani's money and the fact that Orta is still in a job suggests that AR knew of and was comfortable with the contract terms, and isn't blaming Orta for them.

Bielsa wanted him, Orta got him Rads etc would have worked out the money and contract always assuming we offered one, don't forget a loanee is paid what the parent club pays, it's their contract. Then there may or may not be some kind of negotiation of how much of the salary a loaning club pays

I really don't know if we offered him a contract on becoming our player, I'm sure Kalvin isn't still on the contract he signed with us, I doubt Tyler Adams is still on the contract he signed with Leipzig...

I honestly don't recall him signing a full time multi year contract with us..

[Cjay]

Bielsa wanted him, Orta got him Rads etc would have worked out the money and contract always assuming we offered one, don't forget a loanee is paid what the parent club pays, it's their contract. Then there may or may not be some kind of negotiation of how much of the salary a loaning club pays

I really don't know if we offered him a contract on becoming our player, I'm sure Kalvin isn't still on the contract he signed with us, I doubt Tyler Adams is still on the contract he signed with Leipzig...

I honestly don't recall him signing a full time multi year contract with us..

Contract was agreed and signed ready to become active if we were promoted.

The obligation to buy makes it a permanent deal in everything but name and so things like contract are pre agreed.

In the same way we had formally agreed to pay Leipzig X if promoted we had formally agreed to this 5 year deal with jka.

Helder Costa was the same.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic to AC Milan from Barcelona in 2010 is an example. His deal was an initial loan with a buy option but as he said himself he had already signed his permanent deal.

[The Subhuman]

Contract was agreed and signed ready to become active if we were promoted.

The obligation to buy makes it a permanent deal in everything but name and so things like contract are pre agreed.

Helder Costa was the same.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic to AC Milan from Barcelona in 2010 is an example. His deal was an initial loan with a buy option but as he said himself he had already signed his permanent deal.

Was it though?

"Leeds United will have to pay £18m to RB Leipzig for the transfer of Jean-Kevin Augustin despite never permanently signing the player, according to a judgement from the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS)" i news

He certainly signed the loan agreement but I can't find any news story that shows he did. LUFC official site says option to buy in their signing day bit of blurb...

To be honest obligation to buy deals need to be made against the rules in football...

How long was the contract you said he signed for and what was the salary agreed? What was the date it was signed, may help me find the signing of the second contract

[Cjay]

Was it though?

"Leeds United will have to pay £18m to RB Leipzig for the transfer of Jean-Kevin Augustin despite never permanently signing the player, according to a judgement from the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS)" i news

He certainly signed the loan agreement but I can't find any news story that shows he did. LUFC official site says option to buy in their signing day bit of blurb...

To be honest obligation to buy deals need to be made against the rules in football...

How long was the contract you said he signed for and what was the salary agreed? What was the date it was signed, may help me find the signing of the second contract

Absolutely definitely will have been pre agreed.

We never signed him permanently because we refused (hence why they took us to court).

But his deal had to be pre agreed otherwise this scenario could happen.

JKA has a crap loan does nothing but we get promoted.

"Crap" thinks LUFC board what do we do now? We don't want him but we are obliged to sign him, how do we get our of this?

I know thinks Radz

JKA we are legally obliged to sign you so here is your contract offer, £2.50 and a bottle of Pepsi.

What do you think?

Go away says JKA, turns down our deal so we get out of it and he goes back to Leipzig who miss out on £18mil because the player turned us down.

See what I mean? That wouldn't be allowed to happen, JKA's people wouldn't let that scenario occur and neither would Leipzig.

The obligation to buy would have been drawn up and signed but also to stop that scenario so would JKA's contract.

It will all be pre agreed.

5 years apparently, nobody knows his wages but his Leipzig deal was £92k a week and so it's likely his deal here would be similar.

BBC have mentioned it
The West Yorkshire club signed Augustin on loan from RB Leipzig in January 2020 with an obligation to buy the Frenchman for 21m euros on a five-year-deal if they secured Premier League promotion for 21m euros, due in three instalments.


Phil Hay has mentioned it before including today.

[Cjay]

Here Faaip

There were emails between us and Leipzig used in the FIFA ruling.

One directly referenced that it was agreed that JKA would sign a 5 year deal with us.

The other weirdly says we asked his agent to extend the deadline for the obligation to buy and the payment structure (weird).

All here
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leed ... ore-target

[The Subhuman]

I wouldn't call Leeds live a reputable source and the emails seem to have been redacted ... We'll see I guess

[Cjay]

I wouldn't call Leeds live a reputable source and the emails seem to have been redacted ... We'll see I guess

You can Google it.

I've just done it.

There is a 16 page ruling in full from FIFA.

It directly says that (paraphrasing).

"On January 26th parallel to the agreement the player and Leeds United concluded an employment contract by which the player would become a Leeds player should all conditions be met that would last between June 2020-2025

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... S9LL7YNPQ_

[CHAPELALLMAN]

It's not great to say the least even if JKA let's us off.

We were paying his £92k a week salary whilst he was here, that is just over £2mil (£2.3mil) for that spell. Don't forget we did similar with Nketiah in terms of wages and loan fee.

We also paid Leipzig a loan fee of between £1.5-2mil according to BILD who it has to be said have been spot on throughout this as Leipzig's mouthpiece so no reason to doubt them now.

So you are pushing £4mil already and the £18mil judgement takes us past £20mil (somewhere around £22mil) which puts us up at about £460k a minute.

The previous case I mentioned involving Ricky Alvarez the player did sue Sunderland and won.

He was awarded £4.8mil I think. Wasn't his full claim was just a portion.

Even if JKA agreed to half given its apparently a £90k a week 5 year deal atleast then that is just over £11mil.

So you are now pushing £35mil best case scenario all in.

If JKA does try to get his wages we need to offer him a settlement, don't let it go to court.

And there are steep legal fees as well to consider, which will balloon even more if it goes to appeal, and JKA takes court action. Worst case scenario we might be talking around £40m for those 50 minutes of an unfit overweight player trundling around a football pitch.

The £35m that you mentioned would equate to £700,000 per minute...Even Risdale's regime didn't manage something as absurd as this and with this degree of financial profligacy.

Whoever approved the contract needs to be sacked. Someone must have approved it before it reached Radz. I suspect that this might have been a consequence of not having an obligation to buy clause in the Ben White loan deal. Maybe Orta was kicking himself given how well White was playing at that time, so he was determined to make amends in the next loan deal.

[mentalcase]

Shouldn't Radz, Orta & Bielsa foot the bill out of their own pockets ?

[The Subhuman]

How can there be a deadline to the obligation?

[Cjay]

And there are steep legal fees as well to consider, which will balloon even more if it goes to appeal, and JKA takes court action. Worst case scenario we might be talking around £40m for those 50 minutes of an unfit overweight player trundling around a football pitch.

The £35m that you mentioned would equate to £700,000 per minute...Even Risdale's regime didn't manage something as absurd as this and with this degree of financial profligacy.

Whoever approved the contract needs to be sacked. Someone must have approved it before it reached Radz. I suspect that this might have been a consequence of not having an obligation to buy clause in the Ben White loan deal. Maybe Orta was kicking himself given how well White was playing at that time, so he was determined to make amends in the next loan deal.

I suspect Kinnear was more the financial man with guidance from Orta.

After all Angus as Chief Executive is ultimately the boss of LUFC day to day and I find it hard to believe Orta is allowed to negotiate complicated financial things by himself.

Kinnear i think has a degree in Economics

One scenario if JKA comes looking for his wages as he is entitled to do may be to offer to pay the difference between his salary now and what we agreed?

So FC Basel wage bill is according to my research about £30mil a year which is approximately a mid table Championship club.

So let's say JKA earns an average Championship player salary which is apparently in the £30-35k mark.

Between that and our £90-95k agreed salary is approximately a £60k difference.

Over 5 years that is a loss of £15million, anyone would look for that sort of difference.

If you had agreed a £200k salary and your previous employers had been found liable whilst you earned £40k a year instead any normal person would chase the difference.

Same scenario here imo.

So best case scenario is he comes for nothing.

But if he does and he comes for the full whack which is over £20mil.

We look at the difference which is around £15mil.

And we offer him something in that sort of range.

Saves us millions but still a significant fee.

[Cjay]

How can there be a deadline to the obligation?

Pass

This is all to complicated for me and my fag packet research

[BlackHillsPaul]

And all the money spent on legal costs which will also be a pretty penny!

I spent 30 years as a Commercial Insurance Underwriter. In the United States insurance would cover the actual legal costs to defend the lawsuit. And would pay up to the policy limit for DAMAGES awarded by the court as a result of NEGLIGENCE on the part of the insured.

I can't speak to European law or insurance contracts. But it seems reasonable that similar policy provisions would be in place.

[Lumiukko]

I wonder if as part of Leeds and Leipzig coming to an agreement to release JKA so he could sign for (was it Nantes?) was that JKA would forego any rights to make claims on any pre-contract/contract he had signed making him our player on promotion or anything based upon the outcome of the dispute. In other words, we, and he may already have drawn a line under that particular issue.

[Irish Ian]

Wonder if there was an expected signing on fee too...

As has been mentioned it is possible that from the time when Leeds and Leipzig relinquished any claim to his registration and made him a free agent he couldn't expect to be paid wages when he then Joined Nante. --6th October 2020. So only 5 months since he was sent back.

So if the 5 months are the critical time period then add that up, subtract his signing on fee and pay him the rest.

Just hope he hasn't the cheek to chase after his promotion bonus

Also in many cases in loan arrangements wages are split between the clubs