Flat track bullies - Southampton

[Cjay]

Plus they've added two gamechangers in the Jan window .. so flat track bullies could become just Championship bullies.

Didn't dare mention that but very good point.

[Cjay]

I think both sides have a reasonable excuse for a poor start.

I just find it interesting that in Southamptons last 21 matches they have only played 6 matches against top half sides (won 2 drawn 4 for 10 points). Which does suggest that even in their good run they aren't as good v top half sides 1.67 points against top half sides during that time. Of course with them only playing 6 matches during that time it is a small sample size and I made the comparison that Ipswich have faced 9 top half sides in their last 11 matches which has coincided with their poor run.

Of course as my learned colleague points out stats can be rendered totally obsolete by the fact Saints have strengthened their squad.

They play two top half sides in the next 3 so hopefully your point will prove true.

We need them to slip up somewhere.

[Madron]

They play two top half sides in the next 3 so hopefully your point will prove true.

We need them to slip up somewhere.

Bristol C (tues game) just miss out on being in top half ,on goals scored.
But hopefully it still applies.

[weasel]

And , they haven't played any of the 'top 3'' in those 6.

Strange how the fixtures have turned out.

Indeed and it is often why managers get sacked and then the new managers comes in and does well. The sacked manager has had a horrendous run of matches against top sides but then the new manager comes in and they get a run of easier matches - a bit like what happened with Bielsa getting sacked.

Ipswich are a great example. If their manager hadn't done so well for them their owners could well have looked at their poor run and sacked him. However after playing 9 top half teams in their last 11 matches then you would expect them to have an easier run coming up. It is also why I wouldn't write Ipswich off quite yet.

Was Southampton's bad early form down to playing decent sides or just a slow start? From what I saw they didn't have anywhere near the level of disruption that we had.

[weasel]

Bristol C (tues game) just miss out on being in top half ,on goals scored.
But hopefully it still applies.

And to some extent can show up the folly of my stats as in a few weeks the table could look different and some tp half temas will be in the bottom half - although it probably won't change too much.

[Cjay]

And to some extent can show up the folly of my stats as in a few weeks the table could look different and some tp half temas will be in the bottom half - although it probably won't change too much.

Thats where it can be flawed I suppose.

For example Norwich and Plymouth were 6th and 4th when Southampton played them matchday 2 and 3 and they took 4 points.

If you want to do some more then here.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-sout ... on_id/2023

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leeds-u ... on_id/2023

Gives you the position when each team played the game.

[weasel]

Daft Southampton didn't realise Bristol were 13th and lost to them. Bristol end the match as a top half team.

[Cjay]

Daft Southampton didn't realise Bristol were 13th and lost to them. Bristol end the match as a top half team.

Technically Bristol City became a top half team after the 1st goal so then Southampton were playing vs a top half team when the 2nd and 3rd went in so does that mean they aren't or are flat track bullies?

I'm so confused!!!!!

[weasel]

Technically Bristol City became a top half team after the 1st goal so then Southampton were playing vs a top half team when the 2nd and 3rd went in so does that mean they aren't or are flat track bullies?

I'm so confused!!!!!

Ah so basically as soon as Bristol went in front Saints knew the writing was on the wall.

I wonder if adding 2 attacking players has made them more vulnerable to conceding goals. 6 goals conceded in 2 games against sides who aren't particularly big scorers.

[Lufc76Cor]

That's a brilliant chart to view, could it be possible to get it updated every couple of games?

[Cjay]

Ah so basically as soon as Bristol went in front Saints knew the writing was on the wall.

I wonder if adding 2 attacking players has made them more vulnerable to conceding goals. 6 goals conceded in 2 games against sides who aren't particularly big scorers.

Big big test of this theory on Friday.

West Brom are the 3rd best home side in the league with the joint 2nd best home defence.

Southampton aren't massive goal getters away from home.

Teams like Swansea, Coventry and Norwich have scored more.

They play Friday night so pressure is on them.

Also the mental factor, so long unbeaten and not conceding.

After that poor season start where they conceded a lot may play on the minds of the players.

[Madron]

Tamesaint
Tamesaint
Subscribed Users
4.6k
Posted Sunday at 11:58 (edited)
On 11/02/2024 at 10:51, AlexLaw76 said:
https://www.motforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=

Teams at the bottom, fighting relegation are not necessarily pushovers. Eg Good luck to Leeds and Ipswich if Huddersfield (fourth from bottom) play against them like they did yesterday.


Regarding Saints 5-3 win at weekend.
Had a look on that Saints forum and this ,slightly blinkered ,comment made me laugh.
Totally ignores the fact that Huddersfield conceded 5 goals.
Not sure we should lose too much sleep worrying about them.

[weasel]

That's a brilliant chart to view, could it be possible to get it updated every couple of games?

As it stands now if the teams continued with their points average against teams currently in the top and bottom half:

Leicester 107.5pts
Leeds 96.3pts
Ipswich 95.5pts
Southampton 94.1pts

Interestingly

Leicester have 8 games left against top half teams and 5 v bottom half. 5 of their games against top half teams are away.
We have 6 v TH and 7 v BH.
Ipswich 6 v TH and 8 v BH
Saints 8 v TH and 6 v BH

Despite the predicted total for Leicester I can see them possbily having a wobble. However if they beat us then that will likely be the end of our potential challenge to them and you would also think it would give them their momentum to kick on again.

[Lufc76Cor]

As it stands now if the teams continued with their points average against teams currently in the top and bottom half:

Leicester 107.5pts
Leeds 96.3pts
Ipswich 95.5pts
Southampton 94.1pts

Interestingly

Leicester have 8 games left against top half teams and 5 v bottom half. 5 of their games against top half teams are away.
We have 6 v TH and 7 v BH.
Ipswich 6 v TH and 8 v BH
Saints 8 v TH and 6 v BH

Despite the predicted total for Leicester I can see them possbily having a wobble. However if they beat us then that will likely be the end of our potential challenge to them and you would also think it would give them their momentum to kick on again.

Yes, looking at the fixtures for everyone it does look like they are in our favour especially with us having played almost all our fixtures against all those around us , I would agree that losing to Leicester would be the end of anyone realistically catching them, never even thought we could get near them but if we were to win then they will be looking over their shoulder very nervously ..

Whatever about Leicester I'm still expecting Southampton to have a bit of a bad run, to think they went 22 league games unbeaten and the first game they lose we jump them, that must be a bit of a kick to them even though they were only above us for a few games, and Ipswich have had a terrible run of late but the early season form has kept them in it, hopefully we are timing our run to perfection

[weasel]

As it stands now if the teams continued with their points average against teams currently in the top and bottom half:

Leicester 107.47pts
Ipswich 96.38pts
Leeds 96.31pts
Southampton 92.00pts

[Cjay]

Southampton fans done the work for you

Lazy Weasel not on the ball

[weasel]

Cheeky. I have my spreadsheet. I even have it to judge it with home and away games taken into account for matches against top and bottom hlaf teams. There isn't much difference to it however.


Leicester 107.83pts
Leeds 97.27pts
Ipswich 96.83pts
Southampton 92.13pts


I see your Southampton friends haven't put tonight's result in....

and their table is out of date, Boro are 13th

[weasel]

Update after tonight based on home and away results against top and bottom half sides.

Leicester 104.43pts
Leeds 98.06pts
Ipswich 96.83pts
Southampton 92.13pts

Interestingly some Leicester fans are describing their side as flat track bullies.

[Cjay]

Update after tonight based on home and away results against top and bottom half sides.

Leicester 104.43pts
Leeds 98.06pts
Ipswich 96.83pts
Southampton 92.13pts

Interestingly some Leicester fans are describing their side as flat track bullies.

Leicester record vs the top 6 is poor, less than a point per game.

They've lost to Hull, not beaten Ipswich twice, lost to us twice (all be it unlucky once) , 1st game vs Coventry could have easily gone either way and lost the 2nd one.

Very fortunate to beat WBA and Sunderland was less than convincing.

Norwich they beat but Norwich had more shots (didn't see the game so can't comment really)

Only really deservedly won vs 1 side and that was Southampton.

Leicester have had plenty of lucky escapes this season against the better sides (Coventry, Sunderland, WBA).

[weasel]

Leicester record vs the top 6 is poor, less than a point per game.

They've lost to Hull, not beaten Ipswich twice, lost to us twice (all be it unlucky once) , 1st game vs Coventry could have easily gone either way and lost the 2nd one.

Very fortunate to beat WBA and Sunderland was less than convincing.

Norwich they beat but Norwich had more shots (didn't see the game so can't comment really)

Only really deservedly won vs 1 side and that was Southampton.

Leicester have had plenty of lucky escapes this season against the better sides (Coventry, Sunderland, WBA).

Like you say they have had the lucky excapes and that boils down to the quality of their players which makes them more clinical at both ends of the pitch. I know you have made a lot about Farke having a good squad but in comparison to the the stability that the LEciester squad have what Farke has achieved so far is far more impressive to me than what Poundland Pep has done at Leicester. I made the comment that Leicester shouldn't have gone down and it was poor management that took them down as they had a good squad. Whereas we had poor managers but also a poor squad - a better manager probably keeps us up but we still had a much poorer squad than Leicester's.