QPR v Leeds Utd - Post Match Discussion

[DDB220]

Sorry but opposition fans seeing us playing the "oh dear look how weak our squad is line" would pish themselves laughing.

The QPR fan who was on here or the Millwall fan ask them if they'd like Dan James on the bench or Piroe or Conor Roberts or even Charlie Cresswell.

The Ipswich goalie was signed from Accrington Stanley.

The left back was one we decided was crap.

The midfielder they bought off the bench tonight has a career best 8 goals in league 1, only done similar once before in non league.

The main striker tonight had played 40 games before in the Championship, 0 goals before this season

But we are playing the oh how awful our squad is card?

Last time our most used sub was in the Championship he scored 8 goals and got 6 assists for the team that finished 2nd.

Our next most used sub is former Championship player of the year and double Championship promotion winning Bamford.

After that it's Willy Gnonto who we rejected 20+million for in the summer.

And after that it's Piroe who Farke was given £15mil to buy (a record fee for basically the whole league) and is the top Championship open play goalscorer over the last 2 years.

Ipswich most used subs include league 1 journeyman Marcus Harness who was has never played regularly above league 1 and Kayden Jackson whose 30 with 2 double figure seasons in his career.

Seems a bit rich and lacking awareness playing the awful squad card when you look at our competitors.

Look at who WBA have on the bench or Norwich or go back look at the bench under MB.

Those are what Championship squads usually look like.

Personally I think it's a bit embarrassing playing that card, rate the players or not but pedigree wise it's levels above what you get in this league.

Absolutely miles.

In fairness CJAY - the club origins of a goalkeeper or any player means very little. Few keepers actually arrive on the scene having started at a big club. McKenna has built a decent squad by using what he inherited and adding the right blend of players, not just based on talent but experience and personality. His achievements in this day and age, when instant success is required are extremely impressive.
There is a good chance he will go on to be a top manager at one of the big clubs.

Just for context Meslier was bought for 5 million from Lorient I believe, who were a French second division club.

Our squad has many frailties despite the suggestion that they are all top notch at this level. Experience and decision making is rather thin on the ground and should not be underestimated. Our team has shown that they can be as formidable an opponent as any team in this league when it clicks. Conversely as we have seen of late they can also look like 11 strangers.

Just because a player was great at club X and won an accolade does not guarantee that he can repeat that with club Y. This is why player personality is as important as talent.

Whether DF can turn this around and get us promoted will be a true test of his credentials. Whether by results going in our favour and beating Southampton on the last day or via the playoffs makes no difference as the end result is still the same.

Now is not the time to experiment as some suggest - it is too late for that. You hold your nerve and go with what you know works in most games and fix the current issues.

I am in agreement that he should have used the squad more, because he has limited his options in the run in. He is relying on his stalwarts even when there is clearly issues in consistency and performance levels for Geo, Gray, Gruev, Piroe and Bamford. Changing the keeper at this stage of the season as SA found out is not the answer, unless we have a nailed on upgrade. Anyone who thinks we have is just speculating IMO.

[Jaydog]

Hi friend
i mean at this rate, im worried we might even slip out of playoff places
are we mathematically locked in for play offs?

No. We can still be relegated in actual fact.
Don’t listen to the others, especially Brian the Frenchman. We are doomed. Doomed I tell you.

[SG90]

Yes, we most certainly have Sid.

Mes - Has constantly been ' a work in progress' ...'flappybird '...'panic ridden'.....but DF has used him well via tactics.....a clown buy

Gray - DF unearthed him, don't forget that - Nobody else ever used him to such good effect - A complete bonus from DF for us.

Firpo - Virtually unplayable by any previous managers inc Bert - Another clown buy, and credit to DF again for finding a use.

Byram - A free biscuit, and mainly rejected by others, but DF used him well on the left when we had no one, a shrewd quick fix.

Ampadu - £5m, hardly breaking the bank.

Rodon - Rejected by Spurs, but DF has used him instrumentally

Kamara - £5m , hardly breaking the bank innit ?

Summerville - No other manager has seen fit to use him at all, DF turns him into poty in the Championship - No credit for that?

Rutter - Looks like the clown spent £35m on a gamble, I've seen some nice stuff, and i've seen some shite, and that's just in the Championship, is he a world beater even at this level ?

James - Does okish in the Championship, and again, no world beater.

Piroe - Has starred at Swansea, who btw, DIDN'T win promotion with him.


These players are not all that good ^

One is moaning, but one is forgetting, it is DF that has got the best out of them and made them look something like, so much so, that one now reckons they are good players, because DF has made them look good.

Quite simply, they are not.

How did Farke discover Archie Gray when he was on the bench in the PL at 15?

Also Summerville scored in 4 consecutive PL games last season so how did no other manager use him? He was a regular last season.

Most of the players look "better" as they're playing in a weaker league or at their level.

[DDB220]

How did Farke discover Archie Gray when he was on the bench in the PL at 15?

Also Summerville scored in 4 consecutive PL games last season so how did no other manager use him? He was a regular last season.

Most of the players look "better" as they're playing in a weaker league or at their level.

Player narratives and judgement are all a matter of opinion which can be manipulated whichever side of the fence you are on.

Personally, where our team has lacked all season is in the middle of the park. We have heavily relied upon virtuoso performances up front or solid defence.

The middle pairing has provided very limited output other than ostensibly being tidy and industrious. Similarly our set piece opportunities have been poor considering the number of opportunities.

If an opposition team can effectively shackle and limit Cry, Gnonto / James and Rutter, we are very much going to struggle. We present very little danger from elsewhere on the pitch. Hence why scoring first is our ideal game scenario. Losing Struijk for the remainder of the season was a massive blow, not just for his goals but the fact we do not have the luxury of playing Amps in his preferred position.

Whether Cresswell or Cooper playing could have solved this is a moot point, because up to the international break the set up Amps partnering Rodon and the Kamara / Gruev partnership worked, despite the occasional warning signs.

But of late when we have needed goals from elsewhere in the team these frailties have become more acute. Hence why Kamara was dropped and Archie moved into the middle. It hasn’t worked, we have lost a sense of stability and not really gained anything tangible in return.
In truth it is a huge burden to place on a young player - It is a gamble that has not really come off and Farke is without question responsible for that.

[SG90]

Player narratives and judgement are all a matter of opinion which can be manipulated whichever side of the fence you are on.

Personally, where our team has lacked all season is in the middle of the park. We have heavily relied upon virtuoso performances up front or solid defence.

The middle pairing has provided very limited output other than ostensibly being tidy and industrious. Similarly our set piece opportunities have been poor considering the number of opportunities.

If an opposition team can effectively shackle and limit Cry, Gnonto / James and Rutter, we are very much going to struggle. We present very little danger from elsewhere on the pitch. Hence why scoring first is our ideal game scenario. Losing Struijk for the remainder of the season was a massive blow, not just for his goals but the fact we do not have the luxury of playing Amps in his preferred position.

Whether Cresswell or Cooper playing could have solved this is a moot point, because up to the international break the set up Amps partnering Rodon and the Kamara / Gruev partnership worked, despite the occasional warning signs.

But of late when we have needed goals from elsewhere in the team these frailties have become more acute. Hence why Kamara was dropped and Archie moved into the middle. It hasn’t worked, we have lost a sense of stability and not really gained anything tangible in return.
In truth it is a huge burden to place on a young player - It is a gamble that has not really come off and Farke is without question responsible for that.

I agree, though the lack of goals from elsewhere on the pitch is tactical. How many times are players in a good position with acres of space, only to pass to Geo who is crowded out by several players? It's obviously a tactic they've been told to do.

We got away with it in the winning run, but that was never going to last, and no plan b was ever addressed. The best managers are always one step ahead, whereas we just seem to be clinging to the hope it will click again.

[1964white]

In fairness CJAY - the club origins of a goalkeeper or any player means very little. Few keepers actually arrive on the scene having started at a big club. McKenna has built a decent squad by using what he inherited and adding the right blend of players, not just based on talent but experience and personality. His achievements in this day and age, when instant success is required are extremely impressive.
There is a good chance he will go on to be a top manager at one of the big clubs.

Just for context Meslier was bought for 5 million from Lorient I believe, who were a French second division club.

Our squad has many frailties despite the suggestion that they are all top notch at this level. Experience and decision making is rather thin on the ground and should not be underestimated. Our team has shown that they can be as formidable an opponent as any team in this league when it clicks. Conversely as we have seen of late they can also look like 11 strangers.

Just because a player was great at club X and won an accolade does not guarantee that he can repeat that with club Y. This is why player personality is as important as talent.

Whether DF can turn this around and get us promoted will be a true test of his credentials. Whether by results going in our favour and beating Southampton on the last day or via the playoffs makes no difference as the end result is still the same.

Now is not the time to experiment as some suggest - it is too late for that. You hold your nerve and go with what you know works in most games and fix the current issues.

I am in agreement that he should have used the squad more, because he has limited his options in the run in. He is relying on his stalwarts even when there is clearly issues in consistency and performance levels for Geo, Gray, Gruev, Piroe and Bamford. Changing the keeper at this stage of the season as SA found out is not the answer, unless we have a nailed on upgrade. Anyone who thinks we have is just speculating IMO.

Have to say, that is a brilliant post

[1964white]

I agree, though the lack of goals from elsewhere on the pitch is tactical. How many times are players in a good position with acres of space, only to pass to Geo who is crowded out by several players? It's obviously a tactic they've been told to do.

We got away with it in the winning run, but that was never going to last, and no plan b was ever addressed. The best managers are always one step ahead, whereas we just seem to be clinging to the hope it will click again.

We are predictable in the approach of our play.

[GreennWhite]

This recent bad run of results for us in my opinion are all down to the players, and not Frake as some would make out.
Whether the players are burnt out, playing with injuries, got personal problems or illnesses or simply just out of form at a very important point in the season no one really knows.
When we were having out very good run of results people werent calling for Farke`s head. Why has he become such a bad coach/manager all of a sudden. He hasnt, some of our fans simply cant handle reality and unless we are winning every game they are not happy. They cant handle defeat when it comes along.
Like i said, for whatever reason the players havent been doing their job well enough lately and thats why we havent put automatic promotion to bed when we have had the chances. Its still there to be had but its become much harder than it should have been.
But never give up, as Jimmy Greaves used to say " Its a fuuny old game " and you just never know what might happen.

[DDB220]

I agree, though the lack of goals from elsewhere on the pitch is tactical. How many times are players in a good position with acres of space, only to pass to Geo who is crowded out by several players? It's obviously a tactic they've been told to do.

We got away with it in the winning run, but that was never going to last, and no plan b was ever addressed. The best managers are always one step ahead, whereas we just seen to be clinging to the hope it will click again.

I am not sure the fact Kamara doesn’t back himself and take a shot is tactical. He just does not have the self belief for me. Geo has also started laying off the ball of late when he has been in a good opportunity to get a shot away. We have a real paucity with intelligent runs into the box from deep and finishing from the edge of the box when you remove Cry and Gnonto.

This is not necessarily tactical it is a missing ingredient. He did try and sign Riley from Celtic apparently. So I am pretty sure he was aware of the issue but was probably hampered with player availability and budget constraints.

The suggestion that it was never going to last is merely hindsight. It is evident that the team that went into the international break is not at the same level now. There are probably a multitude of reasons. Gnonto getting injured, Geo having surgery. The international EURO downer for the Welsh boys. The injury to Roberts reduced viable options, he has a goal in him. The pressure of the run in, which all the teams at the top end of table have struggled with.

But every team faces challenges throughout the season, form and confidence is a fickle master, but ultimately those teams that can maintain this for the longest periods throughout the season are the teams that are successful.

[1964white]

This recent bad run of results for us in my opinion are all down to the players, and not Frake as some would make out.
Whether the players are burnt out, playing with injuries, got personal problems or illnesses or simply just out of form at a very important point in the season no one really knows.
When we were having out very good run of results people werent calling for Farke`s head. Why has he become such a bad coach/manager all of a sudden. He hasnt, some of our fans simply cant handle reality and unless we are winning every game they are not happy. They cant handle defeat when it comes along.
Like i said, for whatever reason the players havent been doing their job well enough lately and thats why we havent put automatic promotion to bed when we have had the chances. Its still there to be had but its become much harder than it should have been.
But never give up, as Jimmy Greaves used to say " Its a fuuny old game " and you just never know what might happen.

We miss Bamford's play & goals when he goes on a lean run or is unavailable, our four flair players Summerville, Rutter, Gnonto & James are happier when they are able to link up with Paddy, even Firpo misses him when he provides sublime crosses into the box, to find our No.9 is not there to get on the end of them.

[SG90]

If the players are tired, it's because there's been no squad rotation. For example, Rodon has played every minute of every game since 4 October, including internationals. There were plenty of occasions he could be been rested, especially in the FA Cup. Rutter was rushed back after injury and been dreadful. Anthony, Gelhardt, Piroe could've got a chance instead and let him recover for a few games.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

We are predictable in the approach of our play.

That's an understatement 64

[1964white]

I am not sure the fact Kamara doesn’t back himself and take a shot is tactical. He just does not have the self belief for me. Geo has also started laying off the ball of late when he has been in a good opportunity to get a shot away. We have a real paucity with intelligent runs into the box from deep and finishing from the edge of the box when you remove Cry and Gnonto.

This is not necessarily tactical it is a missing ingredient. He did try and sign Riley from Celtic apparently. So I am pretty sure he was aware of the issue but was probably hampered with player availability and budget constraints.

The suggestion that it was never going to last is merely hindsight. It is evident that the team that went into the international break is not at the same level now. There are probably a multitude of reasons. Gnonto getting injured, Geo having surgery. The international EURO downer for the Welsh boys. The injury to Roberts reduced viable options, he has a goal in him. The pressure of the run in, which all the teams at the top end of table have struggled with.

But every team faces challenges throughout the season, form and confidence is a fickle master, but ultimately those teams that can maintain this for the longest periods throughout the season are the teams that are successful.

As I mentioned earlier, we have limitations within our ranks, especially scoring goals.

Kamara, Gruev, Gray, Rodon & Ampadu have not scored a goal in championship games.

A team needs its CMs & CBs to chip in with a few goals, had those five scored goals we may have been automatically promoted by now.

[DDB220]

We miss Bamford's play & goals when he goes on a lean run or is unavailable, our four flair players Summerville, Rutter, Gnonto & James are happier when they are able to link up with Paddy, even Firpo misses him when he provides sublime crosses into the box, to find our No.9 is not there to get on the end of them.

It is not coincidence that the return of Bamford and the form of Gnonto played a huge part in our run of 13 wins from 14. We have just lost form and probably a degree of confidence at a critical stage of the season. There was no one on this forum who predicted we would “fellen” ( homage to Kenny) off a cliff during the run in.

Most pundits, forum members and I include myself, assumed that going up was pretty much a formality. But the season has unravelled for all the top clubs to varying degree’s. If Leicester had lost to West Brom and it was a close run game, they may have imploded.
Fine margins is often used to describe outcomes for a reason.

[1964white]

It is not coincidence that the return of Bamford and the form of Gnonto played a huge part in our run of 13 wins from 14. We have just lost form and probably a degree of confidence at a critical stage of the season. There was no one on this forum who predicted we would “fellen” ( homage to Kenny) off a cliff during the run in.

Most pundits, forum members and I include myself, assumed that going up was pretty much a formality. But the season has unravelled for all the top clubs to varying degree’s. If Leicester had lost to West Brom and it was a close run game, they may have imploded.
Fine margins is often used to describe outcomes for a reason.

Indeed

[1964white]

That's an understatement 64

I know MJ, but very true all the same.

[CUSSIE01]

This recent bad run of results for us in my opinion are all down to the players, and not Frake as some would make out.
Whether the players are burnt out, playing with injuries, got personal problems or illnesses or simply just out of form at a very important point in the season no one really knows.
When we were having out very good run of results people werent calling for Farke`s head. Why has he become such a bad coach/manager all of a sudden. He hasnt, some of our fans simply cant handle reality and unless we are winning every game they are not happy. They cant handle defeat when it comes along.
Like i said, for whatever reason the players havent been doing their job well enough lately and thats why we havent put automatic promotion to bed when we have had the chances. Its still there to be had but its become much harder than it should have been.
But never give up, as Jimmy Greaves used to say " Its a fuuny old game " and you just never know what might happen.

DF hasn’t suddenly become a bad manager but surely he and his coaching staff should shoulder some of the blame, how can we take over 140 corners without scoring ? How can we be so poor at dead ball situations? Where was our midfield on Friday ? These things can be addressed in training, instead of lumping the ball in to the middle at every corner why can’t we try something different, short corners, putting a player 1st in line for a knock on, changing the corner takers ? Firpo is our best crosser of the ball atm, why don’t we let him take a couple of free kicks/ corners ? The midfield was non existent on Friday, everyone on the match forum could see this, how do the manager/ coaches not see this and make a few tactical changes earlier. No massive changes needed just a few tweaks to change things up. DF has done a brilliant job this season, let’s hope we can get over the line, either way he should be here next season.

[DDB220]

I think the home defeat to Blackburn was a real killer. Psychologically you could see the impact on the players faces when they scored late on.

[The Subhuman]

What we learned after last night is Piroe can’t play in this team as a lone striker, that’s now a verifiable fact, was clear after Blackburn and earlier spells of the season but after last night surely Farke can see that. Secondly, Gruev can’t hold midfield on his own he needs Kamara with him, as good as grey might prove to be in the future, for the moment he just goes missing.

we need to reset and go back to the lineup that got us within autos, we still have the best squad in the playoffs with the most dangerous players and we can win it.

I learned that before the second month was out and it's almost been a mantra with me. But I also think Farke already knows that which is why he's only played him as the lone striker maybe twice.

Farke seems to be scared of starting Joseph and I'm not sure why, It really can't be his age as he's played Gray out of position at 17 for most of the season even trying him at the crucial DMF position which didn't go well. I wonder if he did start Joseph last 5/6 games and he played well he maybe would have proved he'd been making an error most of the season.

Managers have egos too..

[1964white]

If the players are tired, it's because there's been no squad rotation. For example, Rodon has played every minute of every game since 4 October, including internationals. There were plenty of occasions he could be been rested, especially in the FA Cup. Rutter was rushed back after injury and been dreadful. Anthony, Gelhardt, Piroe could've got a chance instead and let him recover for a few games.

Would you & others have approved of Cooper selected ahead of Rodon, I very much doubt it.

To be honest, Rodon & Ampadu have been our most consistent players.

Anyone who wishes to watch a re-run of the QPR game on LUTV, & you'll soon realise our CBs were solid in the main, it was the surrounding players who let the team down, especially our midfield/forwards offensively & defensively.