QPR v Leeds Utd - Post Match Discussion

[White Riot]

Is this a debate about in general or whose left?

Apart from James and to a lesser degree Firpo (all be it a £13mil full back at this level is phenomenally expensive).

Possibly right.

In general he spent a fortune on quite a lot of crap.

Some big successes:
Firpo (never thought I'd say that)
Struijk
Raphinha
Bamford
Gnonto
Summerville
Alioski
Rodrigo?
Georginio?
Adams?
Harrison?
Saiz?

Failures:
Meslier
Kristensen
De Bock
Koch
Llorente
Wober?
Douglas
Roca
JKA
Forshaw
Roberts
James?

Not all bad and some real gems there. But also some big money spent while we were in the Prem on players that didn't work out.

Loans as examples:
McKennie was horrendous
Nketiah good but not given a fair chance

[Cjay]

Some big successes:
Firpo (never thought I'd say that)
Struijk
Raphinha
Bamford
Gnonto
Summerville
Alioski
Rodrigo?
Georginio?
Adams?
Harrison?
Saiz?

Failures:
Meslier
Kristensen
De Bock
Koch
Llorente
Wober?
Douglas
Roca
JKA
Forshaw
Roberts
James?

Not all bad and some real gems there. But also some big money spent while we were in the Prem on players that didn't work out.

Loans as examples:
McKennie was horrendous
Nketiah good but not given a fair chance

Big success is pushing it I think on some of them.

Firpo, looked decent in the Championship but we didn't sign him for this league.

Struijk yes

Bamford erm difficult, he's played his part at times but missed an absolute lot of football and been paid a fortune (one of our top earners ever since he arrived).

Gnonto and Jimmy yes.

Ali of course

Georgie no, good as he's been this season it hasn't justified his fee and likely top earner status in a league below the one he's signed for.

Rodrigo had his moments but again probably never justified his fee overall and wage status.

Adams so so.

Saiz so so

Harrison okish.

His one big true success was probably Rapha and maybe Struijk, Summerville and Gnonto.

Rest it's patchy at best.

And he oversaw quite possibly the worst transfer in history in JKA.

[DDB220]

Some big successes:
Firpo (never thought I'd say that)
Struijk
Raphinha
Bamford
Gnonto
Summerville
Alioski
Rodrigo?
Georginio?
Adams?
Harrison?
Saiz?

Failures:
Meslier
Kristensen
De Bock
Koch
Llorente
Wober?
Douglas
Roca
JKA
Forshaw
Roberts
James?

Not all bad and some real gems there. But also some big money spent while we were in the Prem on players that didn't work out.

Loans as examples:
McKennie was horrendous
Nketiah good but not given a fair chance

Depends how you are defining success. Missing a fair few players from that list as well. I could perhaps offer an alternative debate to your conclusions.

But let us just choose Meslier. He cost 5 million. Was an ever present under Bielsa for promotion as well as the first season in the prem. he could be an ever present bar a couple of games this season and that could be another promotion. How many appearances - must be over 200. He cost 5 million and we will make a profit - under any terms how can you suggest he has not been a successful signing ? I get you don’t like him but the facts are indisputable.

[1964white]

Going back to our coach.

If those who want Farke sacked, who replaces him & are we going to better off with a new man in charge?

Highly likely imo!

Leeds under Don Revie were not promoted in his first season.

Belisa didn't get Leeds up in his first season.

Farke's Norwich were not promoted in his first season at Carrow Road.

I know emotions are all over the place in many Leeds fans heads, I personally think it would be sheer madness to sack Daniel Farke if we fail to achieve promotion in May.

[Barlow Boy]

Going back to our coach.

If those who want Farke sacked, who replaces him & are we going to better off with a new man in charge?

Highly likely imo!

Leeds under Don Revie were not promoted in his first season.

Belisa didn't get Leeds up in his first season.

Farke's Norwich were not promoted in his first season at Carrow Road.

I know emotions are all over the place in many Leeds fans heads, I personally think it would be sheer madness to sack Daniel Farke if we fail to achieve promotion in May.

Couldn’t agree more.

I get the ‘pointing finger of blame’ reasoning, bonkers for me though. Starting all of over again doesn’t make sense.

[Cjay]

Going back to our coach.

If those who want Farke sacked, who replaces him & are we going to better off with a new man in charge?

Highly likely imo!

Leeds under Don Revie were not promoted in his first season.

Belisa didn't get Leeds up in his first season.

Farke's Norwich were not promoted in his first season at Carrow Road.

I know emotions are all over the place in many Leeds fans heads, I personally think it would be sheer madness to sack Daniel Farke if we fail to achieve promotion in May.

Don't think anyone has said he should be sacked (have elsewhere as I'm sure you know).

But I don't think it is as simple as "well things will be better next season".

I can't speak for Revie but I think we can all agree Bielsa and his side were very much coach based style based, coaching, repetitive movements work on the training ground etc was king?

It wasn't about the individuals so much as the style maximising what he had and more time doing that would breed familiarity and hopefully a better team.

I don't think even DF's biggest fans would claim Farke is that? Even Norwich fans who love him admit he is very reliant on the individual.

So unlike with Bielsa you can't be sure we would improve under DF until the squad is assembled if you see what I mean? It would be very reliant on transfer business and replacing the likely key players who we lose.

There is a perception Farke didn't have his team till the 2nd season at Norwich, he actually had the vast majority of it, 3 players who arrived 2nd season? Pukki, Buendia and Krul.

So I'd suggest that that reinforces what I mean? Norwich had the core of his squad but arguably the 3 most important players all arrived for the 2nd season.

It wouldn't be the same situation as with Bielsa.

It also is impossible to suggest names as potential replacements because as Phil Hay said the board very early on dismissed as they saw it riskier appointments.

They focused on domestic ones specifically with Championship and Premier league experience.

They saw Farke and Parker and Vieira as the known quantity if you like.

Now maybe they'd feel the same if the question arose in the summer.

But on the other hand they may see the work Marseca has done or Mckenna or even people like Danny Rohl and Marti Cifuentes who've completely changed the fortunes of clubs many thought were dead and buried despite having very little money and 0 English football experience and think "actually maybe we should expand our criteria".

And then who knows who they could find.

So imo too many variables and what ifs for this imo.

We could be promoted by this time next week and then we are all happy and can have a nice summer

Or we could lose on Saturday then lose the playoffs, end up on less than 2ppg (the general standard for top 2) and be looking at 2 wins in 10 which is perfectly normal sackable form at any level.

So thats my view for now.

[JoeDenver]

Some big successes:
Firpo (never thought I'd say that)
Struijk
Raphinha
Bamford
Gnonto
Summerville
Alioski
Rodrigo?
Georginio?
Adams?
Harrison?
Saiz?

Failures:
Meslier
Kristensen
De Bock
Koch
Llorente
Wober?
Douglas
Roca
JKA
Forshaw
Roberts
James?

Not all bad and some real gems there. But also some big money spent while we were in the Prem on players that didn't work out.

Loans as examples:
McKennie was horrendous
Nketiah good but not given a fair chance

Thanks for putting the list together, WR.

Firpo is still TBD. A good run of form for 4-5 games last year and then a solid half of a season this year is hardly a success, but he’s trending upwards. Aaronson is missing out of the list, but definitely belongs in the failures column…he’ll never amount to anything close to what we paid for him. Thought Wober was alright in his half-season last year and is still TBD. Rodrigo had 1.5 good years as did Koch. I suppose putting one of them in either column kind of balances it out. James has been a revelation this season so he’s more TBD (although price paid was high, if I recall).

And while I’m of the opinion that Mes isn’t ideal, he has been our primary starting keeper for over 5 seasons now (has it really been that long?). The fact that he hasn’t improved (and might’ve regressed in certain areas) probably tips it over the edge to failures, but I bet we can still get twice what we paid for him…which is more than can be said for most of those in the failures column.

[JoeDenver]

Agree Joe

And when there is a change in terms of selection or subs it's usually wrong.

You can add “often too late” to both selection and subs…as that is my biggest peeve with his coaching. As we find ourselves too late in the season to try to mix up the lineup to try and get unstuck/add some urgency.

[JoeDenver]

Joe - there are two ways you deal with a loss of form, you either trust your players and believe you can play though the malaise or you can chop and change. Most managers go with the former, if you drop experienced players and let’s put the loss of form into perspective most of the team have dropped off. You are effectively pointing the finger at certain individuals - the dressing room and confidence is a fragile place at the best of times.
If we were not playing for anything then nothing is lost by switching things around. Hence why cup ties are generally used for such purposes or if we were mid table he would be looking at next season. The here and now is a different kettle of fish.
This is going to the last game of the season. Even if Ipswich beat Coventry if they lose the last fixture and we win - we go up unless they beat Coventry by a cricket score.

Completely agree with the dichotomy and its impact on egos and the dressing room. More so wish it hadn’t come to this point as things look pretty ominous at present. Farke looks too comfortable, though, this despite our apparent sleepwalking of the past month or so. We look tired, leggy, lethargic (pick your adjective). We need to break free from that cycle. Bringing on fresh legs and/or switching player positions (Gray from MF to RB, Jimmy from LW to RW, Willy from LW to AM, Amps from CB to DM) shouldn’t upset fragile egos. Gruev and Piroe played a stinker last game and could use a sitting. Rutter still looks affected by his injury so a super sub opportunity shouldn’t upset him too much. And finally Joseph on if Paddy isn’t ready. None of those are earth-shattering moves, IMHO. KK for Mes, I concede was a stretch, but if Mes looks completely shot in training, wouldn’t it be worth a strong consideration?

And part of the issue re: egos is the fact that due to the lack of rotation and/or late substitutions this year, he’s made that playing time much more precious given it’s lack of availability for so many players…therefore creating the possibility of envy/jealousy in the ranks. Again, that’s on the manager managing that dynamic poorly, IMHO.

For the record, I’m not advocating firing Farke, but I am advocating him needing to make changes for the sake of this team advancing out of this league. Again, doubt that happens because of him likely being too comfortable at the helm.

And re: going to the last game of the season. God, I hope you’re right, but I’m pretty much resigned to the playoffs. I’d more than welcome being pleasantly surprised if we are able to avoid them by some miracle.

[Irish Ian]

A point re Firpo.

He was brought in to put in those crosses that we have witnessed this season, an wing back- not a full back - preferably with 3 CBs ( you know the system MB used) it it has just taken this long (injury under Marcelo, headless chickens under Marsch) to actually see some of that come to fruition.
That was evident in the first friendly of season 2021? when he sent in a beauty for Bamford to finish off.
Real Betis iirc. YouTube it.





Another general point re managers.

They all get binned off in the end.

So why not to take a negative told ya so approach with them from day one? It is safe. It is also imo my a very good example of moral cowardice.

Expect nothing and you won't be disappointed, but you can somehow comfort yourself with the notion that at least you were right all along.

Self validation.

The purpose of the Internet.

[SG90]

Going back to our coach.

If those who want Farke sacked, who replaces him & are we going to better off with a new man in charge?

Highly likely imo!

Leeds under Don Revie were not promoted in his first season.

Belisa didn't get Leeds up in his first season.

Farke's Norwich were not promoted in his first season at Carrow Road.

I know emotions are all over the place in many Leeds fans heads, I personally think it would be sheer madness to sack Daniel Farke if we fail to achieve promotion in May.

I fail to see how he would improve next season, when he's so reliant on individuals, and Summerville and Gnonto won't be here. His negatives are all rooted in his stubbornness:
Late subs
No squad rotation
Making the same mistakes again
Sitting back and lack of pressing
Possession for possession sake

So unless all those things suddenly change over the summer, I fail to see how we'd do better next year.

[1964white]

I fail to see how he would improve next season, when he's so reliant on individuals, and Summerville and Gnonto won't be here. His negatives are all rooted in his stubbornness:
Late subs
No squad rotation
Making the same mistakes again
Sitting back and lack of pressing
Possession for possession sake

So unless all those things suddenly change over the summer, I fail to see how we'd do better next year.

Has Farke changed the way we play since his Norwich years?

[pjm2019]

I’m not surprised tbh. It’s hard to quantify how much s**t is coming out of your arse or your mouth.
Banter

you are soo funny

[Jaydog]

you are soo funny

Only kidding PJ

[1964white]

We have too many luxury players in Farke's team.

Pablo was the only classy player in Bielsa's team, the rest were very good grafters.

[1964white]

QPR & Leeds both had five shots on target & we lost 4-0.

[1964white]

I would love to know when the stats shows Gruev has had a 93% pass completion rate, how many of those are forward passes?

[DDB220]

I would love to know when the stats shows Gruev has had a 93% pass completion rate, how many of those are forward passes?

You have been watching Browny on the Conner show.

He is a good listen. Played for the club and is managing at fairly decent level. Not sure about his confidence of still getting promoted auto. It is still in the balance simply because anything can happen in this division. Quite a few permutations still in play until we know the result of the Cov/ips match, including the possibility that we draw or even lose our last home game and still go up.

[DDB220]

I would love to know when the stats shows Gruev has had a 93% pass completion rate, how many of those are forward passes?

Gruev is a mixed bag for me. When we are playing out from the back, and I have noticed this many, many times his positioning is rather unhelpful. He seems content to place an opposition player between himself ( by standing a couple of yards behind the opposition player) but directly directly in line with generally Amps or Rodon - whoever is in possession, and waves his arm about suggesting where they should play it - which is not in his direction.

It could be instructional but it seems so pointless and it looks like he is hiding. He has often got a bubble of space around him but just maintains that position, the cynic in me suggests he adopts this position so that they cannot play the ball to him. It is very strange positioning and not remotely dynamic or proactive.

Watch a few games back - you will see what I mean - I just do not understand it.

[1964white]

You have been watching Browny on the Conner show.

He is a good listen. Played for the club and is managing at fairly decent level. Not sure about his confidence of still getting promoted auto. It is still in the balance simply because anything can happen in this division. Quite a few permutations still in play until we know the result of the Cov/ips match, including the possibility that we draw or even lose our last home game and still go up.

Indeed, I only listen to Brownie, always insightful & rational about LUFC.

I'm less confident, purely because we appear to be leggy/jaded & as a consequence not playing well consistently, similarly with Ipswich, Southampton, WBA & Norwich who are not pulling any trees up, so you never know!

Can't bear to listen to Connor's shows without Brownie.

can't bear Connor.