QPR v Leeds Utd - Post Match Discussion

[The Subhuman]

We miss Bamford's play & goals when he goes on a lean run or is unavailable, our four flair players Summerville, Rutter, Gnonto & James are happier when they are able to link up with Paddy, even Firpo misses him when he provides sublime crosses into the box, to find our No.9 is not there to get on the end of them.

Mateo Joseph can do everything Bamford can do and more, he's quicker, better football IQ, close control is better, two footed, stronger on the ball, better touch, better in the air... But he can't do that sat on the bench till the 80th minute

While we keep believing Paddy is the glue we're going to struggle. Paddy has a lot of good points but he's wildly inconsistent and has a lot of weaknesses in his game..

Better striker, better goalkeeper and I think we're 7/8 points better off. IMO we have both at the club already.

[White Riot]

We are predictable in the approach of our play.

We have zero goals from CM this season An incredible statistic from a promotion chasing side.

The last time we scored from a corner was 23-12-23, another incredible statistic.

These are serious failings in terms of coaching, training, strategy and performance.

Meslier is a poor goalkeeper end of. His first shot on target to concession rate is horrendous. 160 goals conceded over the previous two seasons. But does Farke ever bother to utilize Klaesson, other than when Meslier was banned? No.

Bamford has always had injury and consistency issues. So we buy Piroe who has scored goals at Swansea, but not as a striker and expect him to sit in font of the back four and bring the ball forward. He's not KP! In Joseph we have an incredible talent, with all the tools of a top quality striker: fast, physical, technically good, lethal finisher and very aware on the pitch.

So in a must win match, who does he pick to replace Bamford? Piroe, who looks shot in terms of confidence and lethargic as hell. That's an incredibly poor selection by Farke.

We continually pile down the left, which leads to jimmy and Georgi being surrounded even before they get the ball, as the opposition just follow the blueprint of overloading that side of the pitch.

Where's the switches of play we used to get with those diagonal passes from Cooper and KP? nothing.

Why is our play so ponderous and safe going forward?

Why have we stopped pressing and decided to invite the opposition on to us recently? We are not that good defensively to be able to do that, as evidenced by 7 goals conceded against Boro and QPR, who are not exactly EPL level teams.

Farke's tactics appear to be to give it to Jimmy, Georgi and Willy and hope for the best. Similar to when we used to give it to Raphinha and hope for the best. Then if that doesn't work throw all your attacking subs on and hope for the best.

Farke has got found out and he doesn't seem to be able to correct our slump. In fact things are getting worse not better.


We have one of the best Championship squads and some of the best quality players for this level made available to Farke and he has failed to use that squad properly.

[DDB220]

DF hasn’t suddenly become a bad manager but surely he and his coaching staff should shoulder some of the blame, how can we take over 140 corners without scoring ? How can we be so poor at dead ball situations? Where was our midfield on Friday ? These things can be addressed in training, instead of lumping the ball in to the middle at every corner why can’t we try something different, short corners, putting a player 1st in line for a knock on, changing the corner takers ? Firpo is our best crosser of the ball atm, why don’t we let him take a couple of free kicks/ corners ? The midfield was non existent on Friday, everyone on the match forum could see this, how do the manager/ coaches not see this and make a few tactical changes earlier. No massive changes needed just a few tweaks to change things up. DF has done a brilliant job this season, let’s hope we can get over the line, either way he should be here next season.

Firpo was given a go at corners as was Gray. We just do not have a set piece specialist who can deliver the ball with pace. It is a different skill taking a corner to a free kick or even delivering a cross, essentially it is completely different angles. We just do not have a consistent dead ball specialist and they are not easy to find.
Firpo is a big unit and decent with his head, would it make more sense to swap him with Summerville ? I am not sure we have shown any real invention at corners. We tend to just lump it in to the 18 yard box and hope for the best. Which to be fair is what the majority of teams do at this level. I watch a lot of players movement for corners at both ends of the pitch and we have quite a few who just seem more interested in the personal battle with the opposite number rather than trying to get on the end of the cross.

[GreennWhite]

DF hasn’t suddenly become a bad manager but surely he and his coaching staff should shoulder some of the blame, how can we take over 140 corners without scoring ? How can we be so poor at dead ball situations? Where was our midfield on Friday ? These things can be addressed in training, instead of lumping the ball in to the middle at every corner why can’t we try something different, short corners, putting a player 1st in line for a knock on, changing the corner takers ? Firpo is our best crosser of the ball atm, why don’t we let him take a couple of free kicks/ corners ? The midfield was non existent on Friday, everyone on the match forum could see this, how do the manager/ coaches not see this and make a few tactical changes earlier. No massive changes needed just a few tweaks to change things up. DF has done a brilliant job this season, let’s hope we can get over the line, either way he should be here next season.

I get what your saying and of course its his job, along with his staff to do all those things. But you have to think they do work at those things every day of the week, and doing them in practice is a lot easier than doing them in a real game. And while they might take 10 coners in practice and get 7 good ones, come game time and when it really matters they cant come up with the quality thats required. Thats not Farkes fault, its the players that are to blame. He must watch when we practice corners or free kicks in training and decide that certain players are better at taking corners or free kicks than others, so he gives them that responsibilty in games. If they then screw it up ( which they tend to do a lot ) he cant come on and take them himself As a manager you put a lot of trust/faith in your players to do a solid job when they cross the white line. No amount of jumping up and down, or throwing your toys out of the pram will change things on the pitch if the players are doing their job poorly, which they have been lately.
I agree with you that he should be here next season, but its likely to be another rebuild of the squad unfortunately and we start all over again.

[White Riot]

Mateo Joseph can do everything Bamford can do and more, he's quicker, better football IQ, close control is better, two footed, stronger on the ball, better touch, better in the air... But he can't do that sat on the bench till the 80th minute

While we keep believing Paddy is the glue we're going to struggle. Paddy has a lot of good points but he's wildly inconsistent and has a lot of weaknesses in his game..

Better striker, better goalkeeper and I think we're 7/8 points better off. IMO we have both at the club already.

Exactly

I don't understand this loyalty to players like Bamford and Meslier who have both consistently under performed for at least three seasons in a row. Are we expecting a miracle turn round to happen? Cos it's not gonna.

But Farke is not the first one to put misplaced faith in Meslier and Bamford, and if he keeps at it it will cost hime his job same as it did a few other coaches.

I understand plugging away with them if there's nothing else available, but we have players who are better kicking their heels on the bench.

Cresswell should have had minutes, and then Ampadu, or Rodon could have been rotated for a rest. Or Ampadu put back into midfield, which has been a s**t show for a while now.

I just think it's all poor from Farke and looks like this inflexibility is going to cost us promotion.

But he's stubborn and seems very entrenched in his position and doesn't like to be questioned at all.

No signs that he's learning or adapting and these are big red flags if we do make it to the Prem.

[Jaydog]

I wish I’d never of started this fecking fing in the firstest place. Fecking geronimo.

How do you feel about loose & lose?
One of the most common errors on here.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

What people have learned about players like Piroe is that it helps playing to there strengths. Top goal scorer two seasons in succession to basically invisible.

[DDB220]

Exactly

I don't understand this loyalty to players like Bamford and Meslier who have both consistently under performed for at least three seasons in a row. Are we expecting a miracle turn round to happen? Cos it's not gonna.

But Farke is not the first one to put misplaced faith in Meslier and Bamford, and if he keeps at it it will cost hime his job same as it did a few other coaches.

I understand plugging away with them if there's nothing else available, but we have players who are better kicking their heels on the bench.

Cresswell should have had minutes, and then Ampadu, or Rodon could have been rotated for a rest. Or Ampadu put back into midfield, which has been a s**t show for a while now.

I just think it's all poor from Farke and looks like this inflexibility is going to cost us promotion.

But he's stubborn and seems very entrenched in his position and doesn't like to be questioned at all.

No signs that he's learning or adapting and these are big red flags if we do make it to the Prem.

Is Joseph any better than Bamford right now ? In certain situations it is easy to say Jospeh would have done this or that. The same logic could be applied to any player who fluffs a pass, a cross etc- and suggest the potential replacement would have done better.

I am no fan of Bamford’s and Joseph is the best like for like replacement in terms of playing on the last defenders shoulder and getting in the 6 yard box. But it is speculation based on what we have seen of him so far to suggest he is the silver bullet.

It is a massive call for any manager to make. Jospeh showed a level of naivety when defending the near post and getting done by Dykes for their 3rd. Arguably using the same logic it could be argued that Bamford would not have let that happen. Again that is just speculation.
I am certainly of the view we should have seen far more of Joseph since the New Year and then the ‘he is better than him’ speculation may be more fact based. The sample size while promising is not be any means definitive. The clamour for his inclusion is based on results post Int’ break. It was a moot point beforehand.

Ultimately DF will be judged on these decisions based on the seasons outcome. We will get a proper look at Joseph in due course, if we go up we will sign another 9 and how Joseph progresses in the meantime is anyones guess.

If we don’t get promoted there will be far more opportunities for Joseph to play 9 next season at this level and then we shall see. I like the look of the kid but Farke see’s him every day. If he cannot judge a player he would not be a professional coach and more likely on a website claiming he can but with zero professional credibility.

[DDB220]

How do you feel about loose & lose?
One of the most common errors on here.

Pedant

[Jaydog]

Pedant

Or maybe I’m a pendant seams as why donut hav to spelt woords properrly onn hear

[Cjay]

All the negatives you can find yet again.

What about all the positives, are there none at all ?

The amazing run, when he even virtually shut you up, clawing back 17pts and the runaway 2, what about beating those top 2 home and away with spot on tactics ?

He is in part a victim of his own success, even you have been saying these players are good, take Jimmy for example, how good is he actually huh ? A one trick pony, go on tell me ALL abart him ?

But he's the Championship POTY dontcha know ??? !!! Is that not coz of the system he plays in ? That mainly goes down the left you so negatively point out that DF only uses ?? So is something not right on the left ?


What abart all the sq pegs he's used and moved around to good effect, that we haven't even noticed coz he got them playing ok (you'd have pounced on that little gem !) Archie being a prime example, who has had more good games than bad ones, down to DF, and he ain't even a 'specialist' RB as you'd say.

Iraola turned us down, and we didn't go for Knutsen, and the petulant child has been spitting his dummy in and out ever since, throwing stats about left right and centre till some suit his narrative.

I could go on, but can't be arsed, because you just wait to pounce on any manager that doesn't suit your stathead.

Why were we 17 points behind in the 1st place?

Can't keep blaming the summer for that? We were only 5 or 6 points behind by September?

As I said he handled a fairly awkward summer fairly well, he gets credit for the run over the new year.

He doesn't get credit for 1 win in 7 (a lucky win at that) or the run over Christmas.

We've dropped points vs 7 of the current bottom 8.

Jimmy is just very talented, no I don't think it is because of the system.

Tell me how this system gets the best out of Jimmy? The slow build up doesn't help him because it means he's always double marked.

So how has the system helped him?

He gets credit for giving Archie a chance but he's badly overexposed him now in positions not his best.

As I said I don't do hero worshiping.

[JoeDenver]

No. We can still be relegated in actual fact.
Don’t listen to the others, especially Brian the Frenchman. We are doomed. Doomed I tell you.

Friggen great!! Jay, you’re the best!!

[Cjay]

Ok.

And who bought the vast majority of our feckin garbage huh ? Who assembled DF's trash ?

You throw around multi million pound figures as if DF spent it all, he is still sifting thru the shite, whilst managing to make some look okay.

We have a guy on here that worships the circus ground the clown walks on, a guy who normally puts the feckin kiss 'o' death on anything LUFC when he starts with his devils advocate lying.

In fact i can now pinpoint our demise to when Faaip started drumming home to the thread that this is Orta's 'baby'!

Oh Jesus, that's all i needed to realise ffs, What. A. Feckin. Clown.

I still remember the 'Ayling moment' well, perhaps tha should keep tha gob shut fella.

Whats Orta got to do with it?

Summerville has worked out well tbf to Victor as has Gnonto and both had shown enough in the Premier League for that to be suggested they'd thrive in the Championship.

Georgie Rutter has always been talented, just a bit of an enigma of a player but not without talent (hence why Dortmund tried to buy him in the summer).

Dan James (not my favourite) but he made his name at this level as a young player so again evidence was there he'd do well at this level.

People have raved about Struijk on here for years.

For this level they were never "s**t" problem was Orta signed them for the level above.

But for this level most of the squad we have are already proven at this level or had shown enough at higher levels to suggest they'd do very well.

Same goes for Bamford, Rodon, Piroe, Roberts,

My point was whether you rate the players or I do in terms of pedigree they are far above what normal Championship clubs have.

Can't you see that with unbiased eyes and a desire to brand everything Orta did as s**t?

[White Riot]

Is Joseph any better than Bamford right now ? In certain situations it is easy to say Jospeh would have done this or that. The same logic could be applied to any player who fluffs a pass, a cross etc- and suggest the potential replacement would have done better.

I am no fan of Bamford’s and Joseph is the best like for like replacement in terms of playing on the last defenders shoulder and getting in the 6 yard box. But it is speculation based on what we have seen of him so far to suggest he is the silver bullet.

It is a massive call for any manager to make. Jospeh showed a level of naivety when defending the near post and getting done by Dykes for their 3rd. Arguably using the same logic it could be argued that Bamford would not have let that happen. Again that is just speculation.
I am certainly of the view we should have seen far more of Joseph since the New Year and then the ‘he is better than him’ speculation may be more fact based. The sample size while promising is not be any means definitive. The clamour for his inclusion is based on results post Int’ break. It was a moot point beforehand.

Ultimately DF will be judged on these decisions based on the seasons outcome. We will get a proper look at Joseph in due course, if we go up we will sign another 9 and how Joseph progresses in the meantime is anyones guess.

If we don’t get promoted there will be far more opportunities for Joseph to play 9 next season at this level and then we shall see. I like the look of the kid but Farke see’s him every day. If he cannot judge a player he would not be a professional coach and more likely on a website claiming he can but with zero professional credibility.

Well you don't need to be a professionally qualified coach to express an opinion, other wise this forum would be empty

I was calling for Bamford to be ditched over the past three seasons, not just since the international break.

He's injury prone and inconsistent and that's been the case since he joined us many years ago. So we all know what Bamford's all about, he has a few decent matches and scores a few goals then disappears. But it doesn't matter to him as he's used to having his place guaranteed regardless of from, performance and confidence.

Joseph, and Cresswell, have hardly been given a chance here in the first team. So if people judge them not ready what is that analysis based upon other then age and lack of first team minutes? They will never get that experience if they are not given a fair chance.

How many chances has Bamford had? And produced some shocking performances. Same was true of Tyler Roberts. Then when the likes of Bamford fail to put away chances, and Meslier fails to perform, we still persist with them. When there's no path to first team football we see players like Cresswell and Joseph getting frustrated and then they got unsettled and many of our fans almost see them as traitors for wanting to leave and progress their careers.

If Archie Gray is ready, then why aren't Cresswell, Klaesson and Joseph?

They will be given a shout with about 20 minutes to go when we're 2-0 down in a play-off semi-final, and Farke will be hoping that the players he's neglected all season can save our souls and his job, that's unfair on them.

My point is that Farke has one of the best squads at this level, but he's just stuck with the same players and the same tactics. He's had all season to give these younger players some minutes, give them some match fitness and instill some confidence in them for the times they will be needed.

Flogging our knackered first teams players while we have other options available seems madness to me. You see Ipswich having had the benefit of a rest looked much fresher last night.

[Cjay]

In fairness CJAY - the club origins of a goalkeeper or any player means very little. Few keepers actually arrive on the scene having started at a big club. McKenna has built a decent squad by using what he inherited and adding the right blend of players, not just based on talent but experience and personality. His achievements in this day and age, when instant success is required are extremely impressive.
There is a good chance he will go on to be a top manager at one of the big clubs.

Just for context Meslier was bought for 5 million from Lorient I believe, who were a French second division club.

Our squad has many frailties despite the suggestion that they are all top notch at this level. Experience and decision making is rather thin on the ground and should not be underestimated. Our team has shown that they can be as formidable an opponent as any team in this league when it clicks. Conversely as we have seen of late they can also look like 11 strangers.

Just because a player was great at club X and won an accolade does not guarantee that he can repeat that with club Y. This is why player personality is as important as talent.

Whether DF can turn this around and get us promoted will be a true test of his credentials. Whether by results going in our favour and beating Southampton on the last day or via the playoffs makes no difference as the end result is still the same.

Now is not the time to experiment as some suggest - it is too late for that. You hold your nerve and go with what you know works in most games and fix the current issues.

I am in agreement that he should have used the squad more, because he has limited his options in the run in. He is relying on his stalwarts even when there is clearly issues in consistency and performance levels for Geo, Gray, Gruev, Piroe and Bamford. Changing the keeper at this stage of the season as SA found out is not the answer, unless we have a nailed on upgrade. Anyone who thinks we have is just speculating IMO.

No guarantees of course as there never is with any player DDB.

Whether you sign a player from Wealdstone or Barcelona.

But my point is when you have the 2nd highest budget in the league, can spend £30+mil on transfers and I'd imagine some very expensive loans (Rodon, Spence and Roberts won't be cheap) not to mention buy 1 player for more than almost the entire leagues record fee then throwing around the squad stuff is a bit daft.

You can bring players like Welsh international Dan James who made his name in this very league and earned huge money moves because of it.

Or last seasons Championship right back of the year Conor Roberts off the bench.

Or yes even Piroe.

You can't play the "god our squad is crap" card.

It's not perfect of course and as you say no guarantees because X did this at one club he can do it again.

But to our league rivals it looks ridiculous.

A Norwich fan or a West Brom fan for example seeing that when they are having to use a well past his prime Ashley Barnes or Kyle Bartley would just think its a bit embarrassing.

As said before even the players we don't want like Ayling or Greenwood are playing for an 8th placed side.

Cresswell was wanted by half the league on loan in January per Phil Hay, he's barely kicked a ball for us this season.

That's why I find the squad stuff embarrassing.

Fans need to remember which league we are in and the squad we had the last time we were down here compared to now.

[White Riot]

Or maybe I’m a pendant seams as why donut hav to spelt woords properrly onn hear

Wotchu mein mayet?

[JoeDenver]

In fairness CJAY - the club origins of a goalkeeper or any player means very little. Few keepers actually arrive on the scene having started at a big club. McKenna has built a decent squad by using what he inherited and adding the right blend of players, not just based on talent but experience and personality. His achievements in this day and age, when instant success is required are extremely impressive.
There is a good chance he will go on to be a top manager at one of the big clubs.

Just for context Meslier was bought for 5 million from Lorient I believe, who were a French second division club.

Our squad has many frailties despite the suggestion that they are all top notch at this level. Experience and decision making is rather thin on the ground and should not be underestimated. Our team has shown that they can be as formidable an opponent as any team in this league when it clicks. Conversely as we have seen of late they can also look like 11 strangers.

Just because a player was great at club X and won an accolade does not guarantee that he can repeat that with club Y. This is why player personality is as important as talent.

Whether DF can turn this around and get us promoted will be a true test of his credentials. Whether by results going in our favour and beating Southampton on the last day or via the playoffs makes no difference as the end result is still the same.

Now is not the time to experiment as some suggest - it is too late for that. You hold your nerve and go with what you know works in most games and fix the current issues.

I am in agreement that he should have used the squad more, because he has limited his options in the run in. He is relying on his stalwarts even when there is clearly issues in consistency and performance levels for Geo, Gray, Gruev, Piroe and Bamford. Changing the keeper at this stage of the season as SA found out is not the answer, unless we have a nailed on upgrade. Anyone who thinks we have is just speculating IMO.

Generally agree that the time to experiment was a while ago. But there’s little to no chance that we get autos (and all but finished if Ipswich win on Tuesday). Accordingly, this game is a free hit to test some things. And couldn’t things be fixed from making changes? I don’t believe the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

One of those biggest things that needs fixing is our sense of urgency and energy. We’ve looked dull and lifeless for some time now.

How about inserting Cooper for Gruev? It would allow us to bring Amps back to DM who will be more inclined to progress things forward (as Kenny has been clamoring for). And also get Kamara on at CM and shift Gray back to RB (or give Gray a rest and retain Byram there)? Think Kamara should be back to fitness and just go with the most fit and sharp player in training at RB for me.

I’d also prefer to see Gnonto at the 10 and shift either Rutter or Jimmy out right (could also start with Anthony on the left as was done against Chelsea). Gnonto plays there for Italy so surely it’s worth a shot here. He can’t be worse than Rutter or Piroe in that role and he’s shown a proclivity to shoot from range centrally. Think Rutter needs a rest to be honest. He could then be brought on a super sub against tired legs for whichever the three attacking midfielders aren’t performing/look tired. And Joseph on for Paddy/Piroe, IMHO. Give him a full run out for a change. Again, this game is effectively a free hit.

And finally, Klaesson for Mes. Mes is finished. His body language is identical to the end of last season prior to his benching. As goes his body language, so goes his shot stopping.

All logical changes that don’t upset the balance, while adding some fresh legs and energy. This is actually the squad I’ve been wanting to see for some time. It’ll rest some tired legs further for the playoffs, and give some players a well-deserved run out. And who knows, gold might be struck…just in time for the playoffs.

But alas, the odds are not in favor of us seeing this (or anything close to this). Guaranteed he’ll square peg this one again with the same lineups and tactics that have been misfiring since the international break (even prior to it).

[Sean_Nile]

Whats Orta got to do with it?

Can't you see that with unbiased eyes and a desire to brand everything Orta did as s**t?

Some folks have their Orta and others have their Farke.

Sling shite long enough at someone and some of is bound to stick.

We make concessions for Farke when he goes on a long unbeaten run, but just let him trip up and out come the knives.

Jimmy and Willy that dynamic Orta duo are praised when banging in the goals but just let their form dip and they become lumped in with JKA.

It is all so black and white, the Ying and the yang, chaos and order, there is never any nuanced debate but instead violent swings from the best to the worst. Victories bring praise, and defeats condemnation.

Sweet sounding logical words that bring bitterness and rot to the bones.

[SG90]

Whats Orta got to do with it?

Summerville has worked out well tbf to Victor as has Gnonto and both had shown enough in the Premier League for that to be suggested they'd thrive in the Championship.

Georgie Rutter has always been talented, just a bit of an enigma of a player but not without talent (hence why Dortmund tried to buy him in the summer).

Dan James (not my favourite) but he made his name at this level as a young player so again evidence was there he'd do well at this level.

People have raved about Struijk on here for years.

For this level they were never "s**t" problem was Orta signed them for the level above.

But for this level most of the squad we have are already proven at this level or had shown enough at higher levels to suggest they'd do very well.

Same goes for Bamford, Rodon, Piroe, Roberts,

My point was whether you rate the players or I do in terms of pedigree they are far above what normal Championship clubs have.

Can't you see that with unbiased eyes and a desire to brand everything Orta did as s**t?

I remember I said in the summer that Summerville and Gnonto should be scoring 20 goals at this level, using Nathan Tella as an example for why. Gnonto probably would if he wasn't frozen out in the first half of the season.

This idea that they weren't good enough for the Championship and Farke made them good enough is completely delusional.

[JoeDenver]

Would you & others have approved of Cooper selected ahead of Rodon, I very much doubt it.

To be honest, Rodon & Ampadu have been our most consistent players.

Anyone who wishes to watch a re-run of the QPR game on LUTV, & you'll soon realise our CBs were solid in the main, it was the surrounding players who let the team down, especially our midfield/forwards offensively & defensively.

Careful Leon. You’re forgetting about Cresswell and that is a subject that can explode threads