Manchester Utd 2-2 Leeds Utd - Match Debate

[SG90]

It should be the epitaph on Marsch's time at Leeds. Handed an Italian international for peanuts, said he wasn't "Premier League ready"!

And yet still managed to pick him every game?

[SG90]

There are much bigger fish to fry after the next game on Sunday.

And that's exactly my point. The club promote a loser mentality and so many fans are happy to lap it up. We need points from every game. You can't say only games at the bottom matter, cause that's what almost got us relegated last season. You can't just assume we'll get six points from Everton and Southampton, because it doesn't work like that. If we don't win on Sunday, then things start to get worrying. We're not in a position to be celebrating a loss of two points.

[Kennyb41]

You mean the guy who kept us up last season after the other manager on a reputed £11m a year could only get us right to the edge of relegation with a series losses including 6-0 or 7-0 hammerings ?

Oh Chapel dear dear me, stop attention seeking pal, you're getting to the point you'll write anything just to get the response i've just given you here.

If you wanna talk create a thread as such and i promise i'll come over, a problem shared my friend don't forget.

Don't tell mi wife's getting legover elsewhere mind coz i'll laugh my tits off at that.

Just to keep the convo going here for a sec though, let's play a little game that seems appropriate for you, now let's say (it is only in a (your) imaginary world) that if you could only choose one as the manager of your newly formed football team coz you've won £4 billion on the lottery, who would you choose huh ? - Jesse or Bert ?

Now bear in mind, your answer will speak volumes.

[Kennyb41]

Whilst it can be seen as 2 points dropped I think if you said to anyone prior to the game that we would be 2-0 down after half an hour they wouldn't be surprised as such conceding 2 goals in any half hour against MU isn't out of the ordinary. We have seen us blow leads several times this season including a 2-0 lead v Southampton. We've conceded 12 goals in 3 matches against Brentford, Fulham and Bournemouth (being in front in 2 of those games) so we all knew that the likelihood would be that we'd concede at Old Trafford, regardless of what the score might be at any point in the match.

With regard to tactics I would imagine we'd make a few more subtle changes by Sunday. There weren't going to be wholesale changes between Sunday afternoon and Wednesday evening, chances are the player would have only really had a proper training session on Sunday as usually you wouldn't do a training session the day after a game or on the day of a game. Skubala and the other guy as well as the players will likely have the chance now to discuss it all together now for a couple of days and decide how they want to play this Sunday and then have training sessions on Friday and Saturday to try to work on those changes. AGain unlikely to be huge changes in the way we play but more likely a bit more planning to the pressing etc that just the chasing of the ball we have become accustomed to. Likely to work on defensvie shape a bit more and my hope still is for someone to play a deep defensive midfield role.

The point moved us up a place in the league and could be crucial. Every match that we can kep ourselves out of the relegation places puts us one step closer to safety and more importantly keeps our destiny in our own hands.

I'm hoping they did this prior to last night and hope they do again prior to Sunday.

Twas interesting last night how we caught Ten Bob out by not doing what he was expecting, and more interesting than that was what was he actually expecting, what was it ?

He expected a Jesse set up, or at least had planned for that, and instead of being dragged out of shape playground chasing, pack hunting we didn't play into his hands, our performance was nowt special football wise, but it was a fantastic team effort considering.

I'm hoping i'm right in agreeing with ya that we might just have enough talent for someone to come and steer us, we are rudderless atm, but it's obviously to be expected, we're winging it anyway with this twat Orta as far as i'm concerned, so i might be tempted to wing it with Skubs until we find the right guy and don't go scraping the barrel.

Let us all just sit back and think about this appointment of Jesse in the first place huh, htf did he come to be here, i knew jack about him, but we've got Yanks here that don't want to touch him with a bargepole for their mens team, so wtf was Orta trying ? How does he come to the conclusion this guy is good enough for the Prem ?

And most importantly at all, is it right he thought transiting from Bert to Jesse would be a piece of cake via Yankball, coz the man's fcking deluded if so, and again i repeat...WHAT FCKING SCOUTING DID HE DO OF HIS PREVIOUS FOOTBALL MATCHES !!!

AND IF HE TURNS AROUND AND SAYS " I DID LOADS".....THEN FCK OFF COZ YOU'RE A FCKING MORON THAT COULDN'T HAVE GOT IT MORE WRONG YOU FCKING PRICK!

Anddddddddddd relax.

[theBlingGoblin]

Add me to the list of gutted we didn’t win the game but chuffed we got a point and with the way we won it. Shows we’ve been playing with the handbrake on under Jesse and we have the players to get us out of this mess.

My Scum neighbour reckons we got lucky and they’ll do us on Sunday.

I do so love it when Scums are whinging.

I felt like, for the first time in a while, the "luck of the bounces" was about even. It was great to get a point. It'd be great to get another one on Sunday. But, I'd leave it at that.

[weasel]

I felt like, for the first time in a while, the "luck of the bounces" was about even. It was great to get a point. It'd be great to get another one on Sunday. But, I'd leave it at that.

I would agree it was fairly even luck-wise last night. Yes we got a bit of luck with Varane's own goal but if he doesn't do that maybe Bamford scores. We then had a bit of bad luck with Aaronsen's free kick hitting the post, a bit unlucky with Struyjk's header and also unlucky with Sancho's equaliser a couple of inches higher and it hits Messlier's arm fully and is saved.

[Kennyb41]

I would agree it was fairly even luck-wise last night. Yes we got a bit of luck with Varane's own goal but if he doesn't do that maybe Bamford scores. We then had a bit of bad luck with Aaronsen's free kick hitting the post, a bit unlucky with Struyjk's header and also unlucky with Sancho's equaliser a couple of inches higher and it hits Messlier's arm fully and is saved.

Some reckon you make your own tha knows.

What i did notice was everything was coming loose for them and bounces etc all for them, yeah that's a big slice of luck the og.

The Brendan free kick was fooking terrible for where he was aiming, top left corner, and he hits bottom of the post coz the wall didn't stand firm, otherwise it hits them.

Why can we not find someone that can hit a ball, inc corners, how many have now had a go at pinpointing one onto the front post?

Pro footballers huh? £100k a week some of em, i think Sam only started and come on coz he's supposed to be a dead ball specialist.

Raph was decent, ain't seen nowt since.

[Kennyb41]

Bookies have them favs for Sunday and us 100/30 i think, with their key players Casemiro Eriksen and t'other out i fancied our chances to win one of these two, i suppose i'd settle for a point again now if asked, and a 2-2 again would be welcome.

I think they'll beat us on Sunday, but i'm mega interested in what Skubs does and also what Ten Bob does, i'm not too sure Skubs can do owt else and hoping he surprises us all with some tactical nous, but i can't help but feel Ten Bob won't ask us to come onto them again and is gonna go full throttle at us and win, we need to soak it up and catch them on the break, or try and throw the kitchen sink at them ourselves, interesting and nowt to lose really coz he ain't getting the gig, but i'm hoping he can wing it somehow till someone decent comes.

[A Tourist]

a bit unlucky with Struyjk's header and also unlucky with Sancho's equaliser a couple of inches higher and it hits Messlier's arm fully and is saved.

Went back and watched the on demand replay, sticking on a couple of moments. U.S. commentary initially gives Struijk the benefit of the doubt because of the deflection. Seeing it 3-4x on review, he really should bury the thing. He clearly sees the flick pass, has time to anticipate it, and it reaches him in the perfect spot. Exactly what you'd want and the flicked on pass is early enough that the backpost man should expect it. He ends up cushioning it instead of blasting it. Bad miss in retrospect.

Meslier has the reach. Watching it live I gave him the benefit of the doubt cause it's coming through Aaronson and Wober (and I've said since that I still think it goes in say 20% of the time), but it's his error. It's easily within his reach and he's choosing how high his arms arm (at least if the human body still works as I assume ).

[ActionJackson]

I did get to watch the game last night. Fun game. Always hard to blow a two goal lead. I didn't think anyone in white played really badly. Gnonto was stupendous. We're not using McKennie correctly, but last night I'm not sure if he would've looked decent in any other role. He had gotten to the point at Juve where on the right side of the field where he, Di Maria, and Cuadrado were generally on the same page. I thought he did OK especially since the Premier League is the fastest league on the planet (with regards to pace of play) and our style is really frantic. We did seem to use width more when attacking.

Next game, I'd start Roca next to Adams and move McKennie into the central advanced spot and have Gnonto start as one wide player with whoever is healthy and looking good at practice on the other. I can't wait for a new coach and some new ideas. I don't think this is the best idea with this team, but I'm guessing its what we'll see positionally at least.

I thought the ref was helping Man U, but I'm trying to convince myself I was engaged in homerism. I'm failing at that internal argument though.

[The Subhuman]

Add me to the list of gutted we didn’t win the game but chuffed we got a point and with the way we won it. Shows we’ve been playing with the handbrake on under Jesse and we have the players to get us out of this mess.

My Scum neighbour reckons we got lucky and they’ll do us on Sunday.

I do so love it when Scums are whinging.

They'll be comfortable favourites ...

[Irish Ian]

Meslier has the reach. Watching it live I gave him the benefit of the doubt cause it's coming through Aaronson and Wober (and I've said since that I still think it goes in say 20% of the time), but it's his error. It's easily within his reach and he's choosing how high his arms arm (at least if the human body still works as I assume ).

I think a bit hard on the lad there. Watch Sackos contact with the ball. He very cleverly puts a bit of bend on that instead of putting his boot through it. Had he done so it was more likely to hit one of the Leeds defenders. He curls it around the back of Wober leaving Meslier unsighted. It is a quality finish in a very tight situation.

[BlackHillsPaul]

Hey Paul, what about Westons full debut, give me your take on that, you won't get a better baptism of fire huh ?

Yea right? Welcome to Leeds, now go into Old Trafford and boss the game.

I would say McKennie did alright. Nothing spectacular. But that's his game. He's a guy that just has those "intangibles". The stuff that's difficult to measure but you know it when you see it. And when he's NOT in the eleven you miss it. I thought he added some physical toughness and bite to our midfield. His competitive nature was plain to see. He and Adams both have it in bunches. You could see the chemistry between them. Until both Adams and McKennie picked up Yellow cards we were bossing the center of the park.

What we didn't see from McKennie was the flashy stuff he is capable of. The late runs into the box. The give and go's. His aerial presence in the box. His goal scoring ability. I think that will come later with more tactical clarity and a better familiarity with his new teammates.

[White Riot]

And that's exactly my point. The club promote a loser mentality and so many fans are happy to lap it up. We need points from every game. You can't say only games at the bottom matter, cause that's what almost got us relegated last season. You can't just assume we'll get six points from Everton and Southampton, because it doesn't work like that. If we don't win on Sunday, then things start to get worrying. We're not in a position to be celebrating a loss of two points.

I made the point yesterday that we should never consider any match as a free hit. We've reaped the benefits of putting out a strong team in the FA Cup this season, and for the first time in yonks we're having a cup run.

From the first minute yesterday the team went out with a determined attitude to win the match.

We were very close to winning, barring some atrocious refereeing, non-decisions by VAR and a bit of bad luck.

For me our approach and mentality should not change, let's win at all costs. I'm still disappointed we didn't win as I thought our performance deserved a win.

Better getting one point than nothing. It was good to hear from the players that they were disappointed, that's exactly the right mentality.

We're Leeds United, we should fear no one, let them worry about us.

[BlackHillsPaul]

Whilst it can be seen as 2 points dropped I think if you said to anyone prior to the game that we would be 2-0 down after half an hour they wouldn't be surprised as such conceding 2 goals in any half hour against MU isn't out of the ordinary. We have seen us blow leads several times this season including a 2-0 lead v Southampton. We've conceded 12 goals in 3 matches against Brentford, Fulham and Bournemouth (being in front in 2 of those games) so we all knew that the likelihood would be that we'd concede at Old Trafford, regardless of what the score might be at any point in the match.

With regard to tactics I would imagine we'd make a few more subtle changes by Sunday. There weren't going to be wholesale changes between Sunday afternoon and Wednesday evening, chances are the player would have only really had a proper training session on Sunday as usually you wouldn't do a training session the day after a game or on the day of a game. Skubala and the other guy as well as the players will likely have the chance now to discuss it all together now for a couple of days and decide how they want to play this Sunday and then have training sessions on Friday and Saturday to try to work on those changes. AGain unlikely to be huge changes in the way we play but more likely a bit more planning to the pressing etc that just the chasing of the ball we have become accustomed to. Likely to work on defensvie shape a bit more and my hope still is for someone to play a deep defensive midfield role.

The point moved us up a place in the league and could be crucial. Every match that we can kep ourselves out of the relegation places puts us one step closer to safety and more importantly keeps our destiny in our own hands.

I said previously that virtually everyone would have taken the point pre-match. Myself included. But two points dropped from that position aches a bit. Having said that I agree with you that every single point is crucial. So it was a great point away from home.

[GreennWhite]

I didn't see the game so cant comment on how Mes did with the Sancho effort but i have seen Mes getting stick in other posts which i think are very unfair. In terms of keepers he is still just a kid, 22 years old i think ? He may not be playing as well as he has done in the past but Imagine trying to play behind a defence as bad as ours has been all season, that's hardly going to help build his confidence which is what someone of his age badly needs when trying to develop.
He has all the makings of being a top keeper. Yes of course he has had poor games and will continue to do so but if we get a settled defence in front of him i think it will help his confidence a great deal.

[The Subhuman]

I made the point yesterday that we should never consider any match as a free hit. We've reaped the benefits of putting out a strong team in the FA Cup this season, and for the first time in yonks we're having a cup run.

From the first minute yesterday the team went out with a determined attitude to win the match.

We were very close to winning, barring some atrocious refereeing, non-decisions by VAR and a bit of bad luck.

For me our approach and mentality should not change, let's win at all costs. I'm still disappointed we didn't win as I thought our performance deserved a win.

Better getting one point than nothing. It was good to hear from the players that they were disappointed, that's exactly the right mentality.

We're Leeds United, we should fear no one, let them worry about us.

Had we not treated that as a free hit we'd have lost....

[A Tourist]

I think a bit hard on the lad there. Watch Sackos contact with the ball. He very cleverly puts a bit of bend on that instead of putting his boot through it. Had he done so it was more likely to hit one of the Leeds defenders. He curls it around the back of Wober leaving Meslier unsighted. It is a quality finish in a very tight situation.

Oh I fully agree on the finish and the quality. My initial impression was much the same, but, on replay, Meslier is only unsighted for a little bit when it goes around Wober. He sees the initial contact and movement, and then sees it again once its past Wober (Aaronson doesnt actually block vision.

I agree that if you take an average of EPL keepers and replicate it that itll be a goal a not insignificant percent of the time. But with every one of them seeing contact/direction and having the reach, I think most get it. Heck, Meslier himself nearly got it, just needed a stronger arm.

[White Riot]

Had we not treated that as a free hit we'd have lost....

What would you define as a free hit?

[Kennyb41]

Yea right? Welcome to Leeds, now go into Old Trafford and boss the game.

I would say McKennie did alright. Nothing spectacular. But that's his game. He's a guy that just has those "intangibles". The stuff that's difficult to measure but you know it when you see it. And when he's NOT in the eleven you miss it. I thought he added some physical toughness and bite to our midfield. His competitive nature was plain to see. He and Adams both have it in bunches. You could see the chemistry between them. Until both Adams and McKennie picked up Yellow cards we were bossing the center of the park.

What we didn't see from McKennie was the flashy stuff he is capable of. The late runs into the box. The give and go's. His aerial presence in the box. His goal scoring ability. I think that will come later with more tactical clarity and a better familiarity with his new teammates.

This is what i was looking for from ya, i know jack about the guy, am way too lazy to go watching stuff coz it means fck all to me now he's at Leeds with different players around him, i use my eyes going forward

I'm not looking to have a dig here, but if he's the type of player you say and has all those attributes, it'll do him and his game in the Prem a world of good if he gets himself into tip top 100% fit shape, not only be good for us but he'll catch the eye of the big clubs really fast if he wants to progress, he strikes me like he'd thrive under and with a Bert type obsessive regime till he's absolute tip top, i can then imagine him being a cracker, Roca's another but he seems the sort that wants the easylife route (typical Spanish i want my siesta during a game type)