Leeds Utd v Birmingham City Match Thread

[Cjay]

Bamford is more of a natural 9 than Piroe. For me Piroe looks like he plays better as the second striker (not a modern 10 but how teams used to have 2 strikers) where he looks for pockets of spaces.

Rutter is for me an enigma in terms of positions. I think playing him in the 9 role but allowing him to wander makes it harder for the opposition to mark him, playing as a straightforward 10 I think would allow a well managed side to simply man mark him. Birmingham didn't do that but that for me is a managerial choice. So for me Rutter's performance today wasn't because he was in a new role but down to Rooney not telling anyone to go tight on him. I think if Rutter had played as a 9 today he would have played the same way and had the same freedom. Rutter and Summerville have struggled in the last 2 matches as they have been closely marked, they have lost the ball so many times trying to take it and roll. Today they had freedom due to the opposition rather than us changing our way of playing.

Rooney didn't have the tactical knowledge to mark Rutter imo who naturally wants to drift and pick up pockets of space.

Tbf to Rooney in that more free role Rutter is very hard to mark 1v1 which is the only way of doing it.

And if he man marks him it leaves more room for Summerville or James to help Bamford.

I don't think either Piroe or Bamford are natural 9s in the sense of a Drogba or a Haaland.

Bamford came here more as a second striker, in the season he won player of the year at Boro he played a lot from the left with some big Spanish striker leading the line for Boro.

Was the same season before we signed him with Assombalonga leading the line mostly.

It was Bielsa who started using him as a 9 type and it worked because whilst not prolific he worked hard and was a decent link man.

I think Piroe could do the same, he's technically very good, he isn't a small bloke, ok he may not run and run and run but Rutter, Summerville and James can do that (similar to how people had to for Rodrigo).

Today though imo Farke got it right with Rutter and Bamford and hopefully he keeps that whether it's Bamford or Piroe.

[Kennyb41]

Farke has already said Rutter was playing a different role

Stop rambling and trying to piggy back of Weasel's posts.

Yeah reet.

Good football minds just get 'it'

And we don't depend entirely on the internet.

Without which you'd know nowt.

The amount of emoji's you're using are have also started to show another side, that hasn't gone unnoticed ...

;@)

[AcrossThePondAsh]

Limeys surely?

Case in point, Phoenix

[Cjay]

Yeah reet.

Good football minds just get 'it'

And we don't depend entirely on the internet.

Without which you'd know nowt.

The amount of emoji's you're using are have also started to show another side, that hasn't gone unnoticed ...

;@)

I thought I was the arrogant one . . . . .

Ok Kenneth you just "get it"

And I know nothing.

Happy?

[Kennyb41]

I thought I was the arrogant one . . . . .

Ok Kenneth you just "get it"

And I know nothing.

Happy?

Spot on.

And about time.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Thought it was interesting reading through all the posts after the game. Hindsight I know. But so many bashing Bamford and Firpo before they've had a chance.

The biggest issue is that they haven't had a good run of minutes. Firpo is a good full back for this league. Bamford has showed he can score goal at a higher level. Both have been set back by injuries and struggled to get a run of games. Getting 70+ mins today was a big boost for both of them.

The simple fact is that these players are not useless. They're good parts of our squad. We need to back them to come through.

I've not been happy with Farke's lack of rotation in recent weeks. It hasn't allowed a few players to shake off the cobwebs. He doesn't let them play for the 21's either. But today it showed. This is how you rotate a squad. Some enforced and against weaker opposition, admittedly. But he made changes and they worked.

Making changes against Stoke may have scared him a little. But that was much earlier in the season. Gruev looked clueless then but has found his way in the past couple of weeks.

But today has showed that we have viable rotating options. Gray/Spence at RB. Cooper, Firpo, Bamford, Gnonto all very useful alternatives. They just have to be used properly.

[The Subhuman]

As if the eye test didn't support this enough, his heat maps certainly do. No difference today from his other maps from previous matches. Other than not being on regular "press the keeper" duty, he was still all over the pitch and making things happen wherever he popped up.

It's less where he was than where others were... I've posted may times he plays three or four positions every game but there was a significant difference in how it worked around him... So Rutter 10, Bamford 9 was a marked difference and those that have been saying that were correct, at least for this game

[Cjay]

As if the eye test didn't support this enough, his heat maps certainly do. No difference today from his other maps from previous matches. Other than not being on regular "press the keeper" duty, he was still all over the pitch and making things happen wherever he popped up.

The difference is he is meant to do that in the role he played today.

If he is drifting like that and Piroe is drifting as he is told to then you have no striker?

Difference today is Bamford lead the line and played as a striker rather than Rutter ad Piroe being a bit samey.

You can't play 1 striker up front who wants to drift and the other who is told to and not expect a problem imo.

Bamford averages more shots per game, more penalty box shots, more six yard box shots than both Piroe and Rutter.

More 6 yard box shots than them combined in fact per game.

[Kennyb41]

FARKE on Bamford, Rutter and setbacks

I enjoy listening to him.

So he's been working on Rutter building up to the 10 and all his words on that make sense, another tick, quite a few ticks today - Keeper did well i thought and under orders to use his feet, Cooper was pretty solid tick, Firpo looked a different Firpo tick, Gray back tick, Ampadu covering tick, Kamara pushing on tick, James working his tits off tick, Summerville anorl tick, PB tick tock, Rutter tick

And then for 64 - Rodon, tick.

Now is this the managers work or not ?

[Overman]

Kenny, tbf, Farke did EXACTLY what the doubters have been asking for…play Georgi in the 10 spot with someone else playing the no 9. And it worked incredibly well. We’re more than halfway through the season and only finally giving it a shot. Will have to see how it works in the future against more difficult teams, but an encouraging result nonetheless.

In fairness, Birmingham were shite, up there with a pub side. Credit where it's due, you can only beat what's in front of you. That won't stop Benny H from getting a semi on though.

[Jaydog]

I see the new year has started as the last one ended.
Niggle & nadger comparing

[Kennyb41]

Thought it was interesting reading through all the posts after the game. Hindsight I know. But so many bashing Bamford and Firpo before they've had a chance.

The biggest issue is that they haven't had a good run of minutes. Firpo is a good full back for this league. Bamford has showed he can score goal at a higher level. Both have been set back by injuries and struggled to get a run of games. Getting 70+ mins today was a big boost for both of them.

The simple fact is that these players are not useless. They're good parts of our squad. We need to back them to come through.

I've not been happy with Farke's lack of rotation in recent weeks. It hasn't allowed a few players to shake off the cobwebs. He doesn't let them play for the 21's either. But today it showed. This is how you rotate a squad. Some enforced and against weaker opposition, admittedly. But he made changes and they worked.

Making changes against Stoke may have scared him a little. But that was much earlier in the season. Gruev looked clueless then but has found his way in the past couple of weeks.

But today has showed that we have viable rotating options. Gray/Spence at RB. Cooper, Firpo, Bamford, Gnonto all very useful alternatives. They just have to be used properly.

Some good points Andrew - This is by far PB's best and only role for me (Bert did it) and he's very good at it.

Now i've always thought Firpo is ok going forward, but scares the life out of me defending, v v early days but there was a bit of a difference in him today (very slight mind) now could that be DF working with him ? We don't get the answers to these things, but i'd say it is and part of the 'bigger picture' he's just told us he's been working with Rutter and has been waiting on a fit PB, so for people to be jumping in 'do this and do that' without knowing what's going on behind the scenes, and then jumping all over him for some below par games stinks, they have absolutely no idea what's going on each day at training, or individual one on ones, it is DF that has brought thru Pascal, Gray, Summerville, Meslier, James and Rutter when no fcker else was doing, and he deserves credit for making a team. A team which is far from finished.

[Kennyb41]

In fairness, Birmingham were shite, up there with a pub side. Credit where it's due, you can only beat what's in front of you. That won't stop Benny H from getting a semi on though.

Oh hey up, another jealous **** appears, i love it when you show me you've been reading ALL my posts.

Must dash.

;@)

[JoeDenver]

As if the eye test didn't support this enough, his heat maps certainly do. No difference today from his other maps from previous matches. Other than not being on regular "press the keeper" duty, he was still all over the pitch and making things happen wherever he popped up.

That was the difference I noticed, Ash…think it gave him more energy to do other things. Haven’t seen the heat maps, but Rutter spent a lot more time drifting out to the wings in this one, which has to be a difference shown on the heat maps.

[1964white]

And a good manager organises tactics to get the best out of what he has. Spence, Gray, Firpo, Ayling etc all better going forward so you set up the tactics to allow them to play to their strengths. They bomb forward and at times will be woefully out of position which is why you then have Ampadu as a very defensive midfielder. So the manager papers over the cracks as he only has one full back, Byram, who is just as good defensively as he is going forward. We don't have the superb team or squad that many fans seem to think we have (the same fans who slagged off all the players in the summer and were expecting us to struggle) but we do have a manager who plays a way to get the best out of the players. I haven't lost faith in the manager but have doubts over some of the players.

Also interesting to see all the fans crowing about Rutter's performance in the no.10 role today. I thought he had a good game but if I wasn't aware that he was playing as a 10 instead of a 9, I wouldn't have noticed any difference to how he has played all season or what positions he was dropping into. Rutter played exactly the same as he has played all season, he drops deep when he wants, he picks the ball up in midfield or even at full back when he wants and he links the play up. He doesn't play as a 'traditional' number 9 whether he is playing as a 9 or a 10.

As well as Ampadu, Kamara interchanged with him, dropping into the left back position, when Firpo was in a forward position, this was a definite ploy from Farke.

[JoeDenver]

Thought it was interesting reading through all the posts after the game. Hindsight I know. But so many bashing Bamford and Firpo before they've had a chance.

The biggest issue is that they haven't had a good run of minutes. Firpo is a good full back for this league. Bamford has showed he can score goal at a higher level. Both have been set back by injuries and struggled to get a run of games. Getting 70+ mins today was a big boost for both of them.

The simple fact is that these players are not useless. They're good parts of our squad. We need to back them to come through.

I've not been happy with Farke's lack of rotation in recent weeks. It hasn't allowed a few players to shake off the cobwebs. He doesn't let them play for the 21's either. But today it showed. This is how you rotate a squad. Some enforced and against weaker opposition, admittedly. But he made changes and they worked.

Making changes against Stoke may have scared him a little. But that was much earlier in the season. Gruev looked clueless then but has found his way in the past couple of weeks.

But today has showed that we have viable rotating options. Gray/Spence at RB. Cooper, Firpo, Bamford, Gnonto all very useful alternatives. They just have to be used properly.

Great points AJS. Many on here have been deeply concerned about the lack of squad rotation coupled with the lack of tactical adjustments prior to and during matches. While Brum were shite, it was great getting the tactical change so many have been clamoring for (Rutter in the 10) while also getting the squad rotation many have been clamoring for.

Can’t help but wonder if losing to Stoke made Farke overly gun-shy and is why he stuck to the same lineup and tactics for too long. Again, hopefully the result restores his faith in some of his reserves going forward and is something Farke can build on for our push in the second half of the season.

Bring on the transfer window!!

[1964white]

Well, we don't need a ten ... unless it's to back up Geo. Not sure who starts at 9 now though, assumed a rest for Piroe but we'll see. I'd stick with KK for the final Meslier suspension over Darlow who has impressed. Lovely pass from KK to the right wing under pressure second half.. 2 nice saves and caught a ball!

Left back and CB if CC goes to Rangers?

I would stick with Bamford up top in our next away league game at Cardiff.

Had Paddy not been on the pitch, I doubt Rutter or Piroe would have got onto James excellent cross, a different type of goal for us this season which ultimately broke down a stubborn Brum defence & gave us the lead we required.

[Kennyb41]

Posted at 2123
Post update
Liverpool 1-1 Newcastle

Newcastle have scored half of their shots tonight. If Liverpool could do that it would be 12-1.

Sack Klopp tis all his fault according tert stats ^

[Kennyb41]

That was the difference I noticed, Ash…think it gave him more energy to do other things. Haven’t seen the heat maps, but Rutter spent a lot more time drifting out to the wings in this one, which has to be a difference shown on the heat maps.

And when he did drift Kamara slotted into the void, but stats won't tell you that, you have to use your own eyes.

More work by the manager.

[andrewjohnsmith]

The difference is he is meant to do that in the role he played today.

If he is drifting like that and Piroe is drifting as he is told to then you have no striker?

Difference today is Bamford lead the line and played as a striker rather than Rutter ad Piroe being a bit samey.

You can't play 1 striker up front who wants to drift and the other who is told to and not expect a problem imo.

Bamford averages more shots per game, more penalty box shots, more six yard box shots than both Piroe and Rutter.

More 6 yard box shots than them combined in fact per game.

It's an interesting scenario. I really think Bamford at 9 and Rutter at 10 is our best combination. Piroe would likely end the season with more goals than both combined. But it really looks like us playing to our strengths. Round pegs in round holes. Rutter is our most creative player. He needs to play at 10. He's probably the most talented 10 in the championship. And he fluffs in front of goal. As a 10, he's got every attribute to make us a great attacking team.

Simialrly, Piroe does not physically seem to fit Farke's ideal of a lone striker. Bamford does. We've seen how good he's been at running and pressing. Hopefully after a run of games he can refind his sharpness in front of goal. Maybe not the 17 goal PL season he had. But at least some semblance of that. Piroe needs to work in training and show that he can press like Bamford does. If Bamford could finish like Piroe and Piroe could press like Bamford ....

But I think today's combo is our best. And for Piroe to work on his game and come back in as a 9 when needed,