Leeds Utd v Cardiff City Match Thread

[The Subhuman]

Everyone seems to be saying we get out muscled by teams like Millwall... if you cast you mind back to the Millwall game, they won because of a dive and a dubious penalty, and the losses or draws we had early in the season were the result of sloppy pinball ping pong goals and not because we were out muscled.

But we perpetuate this myth every time a result goes against us. There have been very few games this season when any team has been able to live with us on the pitch. 30 minutes out of tens of hours... think about it.

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Flawed and lazy thinking Rab, just a convenient excuse to back up negativity..I'm not happy with the Bielsa messes up headline either, hopefully he's not daft enough to read here.

[weasel]

I think today can be summed up in two words

s**t Happens

If that had been us outplayed and second rate then an infinitesimal pause for thought, but everyone played well to a degree and we played them off the park.

Yeah similar to the Derby match earlier in the season I am happier to be a Leeds fan than Derby or Cardiff fan as both those teams have been completely outplayed by us yet have stolen a point. It is what it is and as BGWhite says far better to drop a couple of points now than to lose/draw a match when it is a vital match. We have still outplayed the vast majority of teams we have played this season and this result could perhaps be a little bit of a kick up the ar$e at a good time as it will stop complacency setting in. Sometimes in matches it seems so easy that you mentally and physically just drop down a couple of gears and all of a sudden things change. Our biggest factor is the tempo we play at and our non stop pressing, when that intensity drops a little then suddenly the opposition can pick out a pass instead of panicking, the player receiving the ball has the time to control it etc etc.

In some ways we are a better team when we are not in front in matches - certainly in terms of the intensity and drive we play at.

[weasel]

Being "good enough" for promotion and being mentally strong enough for promotion are two different things.

If you dont have both you dont get promoted.

The "right form" in 2019 will mean nothing if you dont have the mental strength for 2020.

I dont doubt we are good enough for promotion, i strongly doubt we are mentally strong enough.

I would disagree on the 'mentally strong' side of thing if based just on yesterday's match. Yesterday there was no mental pressure - it wasn't a much win match against promotion rivals etc. If anything yesterday we were mentally strong right from the start but simply relaxed because it was so easy. Hardly like Cardiff were launching wave after wave of attack and we were wilting. They simply caught us out with the 3 chances they created - for me the first goal their lad is simply trying to cross to their lad near the post but it loops into the net - you can judge by the way he celebrates that he didn't mean it as a shot. The second goal we weren't cut open, just a good delivery and good finish, we conceded similar chances to those in the last couple of matches but Kiko saved. And the third was a flick that caught Strujk wrongfooted, maybe if Berardi was still on the pitch it doesn't happen and perhaps Struyjk isn't yet ready.

We will find out later in the season if we are mentally strong but I wouldn't draw any conclusions based just on yesterday.

[1964white]

Still bewildered after yesterday's result but onwards & onwards to Craven Cottage next Saturday as we look to address yesterday's failings.

Positives

Some of the best attacking football we've witnessed at ER.
Two goals in the first eight minutes.
Another stunning break for our first goal.
Costa's overall display & a lovely strike.
Two goals for Paddy.
Klich's delightful chip, so unlucky if that goes in for a fourth goal the game would have been over.
Pablo's pass for Costa's goal.
Dallas cross for Bamford's first goal.
A point in the end which is better than nothing.
We didn't lose although it felt like a defeat.
Eleven games unbeaten.
17 goals in our last eight games.

Negatives

Two points chucked away
Missed chances, even so at 3-0 it should have been sufficient.
A defensive shambles for all three goals.
We struggled to cope with their constant long throws & crosses.
Cardiff three on target, three goals.
First time we've conceded more than two goals this season.
Bielsa's subs, not great.
Taking off Bamford with 20 minutes to play with just a two goal lead proved to be very costly.
Why Struijk on for Berardi and not a forward.
We need a big commanding CB against teams like Cardiff, Millwall, Sheff Wed, etc.
Missed Cooper in all three of the above games although Coops came on to steady the ship at Hillsborough.
I feel sorry for Ben White, far too much responsibility on such young shoulders.
We are crying out for a decent CB in the January window as right now Cooper is injury-prone.
God help us if White suffers a long term injury.
Strurijk is not ready for championship football yet.

Ratings

6 Casilla
7 Ayling
5 White
5 Berardi
8 Dallas
8 Phillips
9 Costa MOTM
8 Klich
8 Hernandez
6 Harrison
8 Bamford

[weasel]

Just my thoughts Faaip

Even though I thought Berardi wasn't having his best game I wouldn't have taken him off, I thought Bielsa was bringing Struijk possibly for Costa as a 3rd CB to combat Cardiff's three man attack.

Still don't think Struijk is ready for the first-team, not his fault we haven't got another fit recognised CB, I knew this scenario would comeback to hurt us at some stage of the season, didn't expect it today although this is just the type of game we need proper CB's to cope with the aerial threat.

Taking Bamford off with 20 minutes to play was crazy, the whole pattern of our play is disrupted with our No.9 sat in the dugout

I would have expected Stujik on as a 3rd centreback to close the game out rather than replacing Berardi. I never liked to replace a centreback in matches (unless injured or having a mare) as it is hard for a new centreback to get up to match speed instantly and that split second can be all it takes to give the striker the advantage - and that happened.

With taking Bamford of for Eddie it was the right decision in terms of the longer planning as we need Eddie to get minutes to become more used to playing for us (especially if Bamford were to pick up an injury). At 3-1 up and completely on top Bielsa would have been crucified for not bring Eddie on. If he brings Eddie on for anyone else but Bamford then it completely changes the shape of the side. It is also important to give Bamford a breather as he has started every game and really does put a shift in.

[The Subhuman]

If we'd won that 3-1 and saw the game out with the first 11 99% here would have said a perfect time to get fringe players up to speed. We've seen enough conspiracy theories we're not giving Nketiah enough game time and Arsenal will want him back and moaning we don't rest players. Nketiah played well yesterday in the short time he had. (Half of me wants a 3/4 week Bamford injury to see what we have and a great sporting coach once said "we're one injury away from a great team". I think we are but I wouldn't really wish injury on anyone playing for us)

[rab_rant]

That's because we struggle against teams such as Millwall, Cardiff, Sheff Wed, etc

Not a myth, it's a stonewall fact

Not a stonewall fact a problem of mindset of players and fans who believe we are doomed to failure when we come up against certain teams. As long as that way of think is perpetuated and drilled into us then we will have difficulties overcoming it.
Finland was like this against Sweden And Russia our two big neighbours... we would always loose when we came up against them in ice hockey... but now their has been a change in attitude and Finland are now the world champions.

Belief in the skills and abilities of your team is essential for their success. I read that for the last 30 minutes of the Cardiff there was a negative vibe coming from the crowd to the player, so most likely it is the fans who are responsible for the results.

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[weasel]

It's not Bielsa's fault , it's not the player's fault it's my fault cause I said game over after the Bamford penalty lol.

Seriously talk about wrist slitting after drawing , the World is coming down.... get a grip some of you.
As much as we were in control and that should of not happened we have gone on a 10 game unbeaten run .
We have players such as Roberts, Cooper, Shackleton, Forshaw still to come back so all is not lost , let's hope we can regroup and learn from today.

The main difference yesterday was that the opposition scored 3 from 3 shots on target. Huddersfield had more shots on target but Kiko had a great game - could easily have lost that game. Hull different game if Kiko doesn't make the save at 1-0, suddenly that is 1-1 and Hull maybe go on to win. The defence was similar to how it was in the games we won, however sometimes shots go in instead of being miracle saves.

[weasel]

You are wrong. it is just some of us don't want to take a dump on the team to relieve our frustrations.

I would say your perceptions of the team are moulded by the atmosphere that surrounded you on the coach ride home. We are all influenced by the company we keep.

You get caught up in mass hysteria and it spills over into what you write and say. You loose all objectivity. You are on a roller coaster ride of emotions. Euphoric and overjoyed when we win. Critically when we draw, and almost depressed and frustrated when we loose.

Bielsa has said that football should bring excitement and joy to supporters... are you getting your money's worth?

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I think we were all angry, disappointed etc at the final whistle but it is important to quickly get over that, yes still disappointed today but you have to look at the positives and negatives and not simply panic because of the result. The great thing is that in a weeks time it is another match so it isn't like the play-off defeat that came as a bolt out of the blue and left us numb and nowhere to go (from fans having booked flights to London etc to simply it being season over).

There were so many positives yesterday, the way we played, the chances we created, PB getting a couple of goals etc that when the anger subsides those bits mustn't be overlooked. We have to learn from the goals conceded but not panic. We could easily have drawn (or worse) the Hull and Huddersfield matches and if we'd done that but beaten Cardiff we would have had 5 points from the 3 matches, instead we have 7.

Put the result to bed, sh*t happens sometimes, and look forward to the next match. It isn't like any of our rivals gained much on us, everyone is dropping points.

[1964white]

I think we were all angry, disappointed etc at the final whistle but it is important to quickly get over that, yes still disappointed today but you have to look at the positives and negatives and not simply panic because of the result.
There were so many positives yesterday, the way we played, the chances we created, PB getting a couple of goals etc

Points I've made in my match report

[whiteswan]

You know, I've read every single comment on this thread and everyone has made very honest and excellent posts. Some different opinions of course, but that is what a forum should be. As weasel says, we are all hurt and upset by yesterdays result, but after reading what everyone has to say, I feel a lot happier than I did at 4.50 last eve. What a pleasure it is to belong to such a great forum, with such great people. ( and no, I haven't been on the wine....yet )

[weasel]

Points I've made in my match report

I do like your post match posts where you list the positives and negatives you see and it is crucial to have both positives and negatives regardless of the result. With football often the result becomes more important than the performance but it is crucial for a manager to be able work out what is working and what isn't regardless of the result as sometimes the result is basically little more than a lie.

Take the example of Bamford and the majority of fans wanted him out of the team. Bielsa knew what Bamford brought to the team and how important he was and that it was simply a matter of time before the goals started coming from him. The example of the team as a whole not scoring and Bielsa didn't start tinkering with the team but believed that the performances were good, the chances being created were plentiful and that it was just a matter of time before the goals would come.

We simply have to put this result into isloation. The 3 goals conceded into isolation. We have to trust that what has worked well all season will continue to work and that doesn't mean buying a big lump of a centreback and expecting us to be able to carry on doing all the good things. There is a reason Bielsa prioritises a certain type of centreback (or full back or midfielder in there) and that is because he knows that the team needs everyone to be comfortable on the ball and mobile.

There will be blips but if we carry on doing what we are doing then we should accumulate enough points over the season to not have to play any 'pressure' matches. Yes learn from things that go wrong but don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[Irish Ian]

I think we were all angry, disappointed etc at the final whistle but it is important to quickly get over that, yes still disappointed today but you have to look at the positives and negatives and not simply panic because of the result. The great thing is that in a weeks time it is another match so it isn't like the play-off defeat that came as a bolt out of the blue and left us numb and nowhere to go (from fans having booked flights to London etc to simply it being season over).

There were so many positives yesterday, the way we played, the chances we created, PB getting a couple of goals etc that when the anger subsides those bits mustn't be overlooked. We have to learn from the goals conceded but not panic. We could easily have drawn (or worse) the Hull and Huddersfield matches and if we'd done that but beaten Cardiff we would have had 5 points from the 3 matches, instead we have 7.

Put the result to bed, sh*t happens sometimes, and look forward to the next match. It isn't like any of our rivals gained much on us, everyone is dropping points.

Yep that is pretty much where I am we won points that on another day we could have conceded against Luton and Reading especially, yesterday was a silly half hour in what has been a stand out season.

I do agree another CB would be handy to bolster us against the more physical tactics of this division, but true Bielsaball has always worked on the they score three we score four philosophy.
Four tough games ahead to show the rest of the country who we are and what we stand for, I am confident our unbeaten run can continue on.

[Irish Ian]

After the game last night we went over to visit friends in a town about an hour away.

We got home late and when I got in I realised I didnt have my Leeds Beanie hat I had been wearing.

This morning I went out to the car and there it was lying in the street.

Noo-ne had picked it up

Why do they hate us so much

[1964white]

After the game last night we went over to visit friends in a town about an hour away.

We got home late and when I got in I realised I didnt have my Leeds Beanie hat I had been wearing.

This morning I went out to the car and there it was lying in the street.

Noo-ne had picked it up

Why do they hate us so much

I hope you put it in the washing machine Ian

[1964white]

I do like your post match posts where you list the positives and negatives you see and it is crucial to have both positives and negatives regardless of the result. With football often the result becomes more important than the performance but it is crucial for a manager to be able work out what is working and what isn't regardless of the result as sometimes the result is basically little more than a lie.

Take the example of Bamford and the majority of fans wanted him out of the team. Bielsa knew what Bamford brought to the team and how important he was and that it was simply a matter of time before the goals started coming from him. The example of the team as a whole not scoring and Bielsa didn't start tinkering with the team but believed that the performances were good, the chances being created were plentiful and that it was just a matter of time before the goals would come.

We simply have to put this result into isloation. The 3 goals conceded into isolation. We have to trust that what has worked well all season will continue to work and that doesn't mean buying a big lump of a centreback and expecting us to be able to carry on doing all the good things. There is a reason Bielsa prioritises a certain type of centreback (or full back or midfielder in there) and that is because he knows that the team needs everyone to be comfortable on the ball and mobile.

There will be blips but if we carry on doing what we are doing then we should accumulate enough points over the season to not have to play any 'pressure' matches. Yes learn from things that go wrong but don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Totally agree on Bamford & highlighting the positives & negatives of a game. I love it when the negative count is as less as it can possibly be!

I'm not calling for a big lump of a CB, my hope is for another decent ball-playing CB who is use to playing in that position & is also excellent in the air at both ends.

One of Ben White's attributes is his positioning, he's an intelligent footballer & makes the game look easy because he is rarely caught out of position.

[1964white]

You know, I've read every single comment on this thread and everyone has made very honest and excellent posts. Some different opinions of course, but that is what a forum should be. As weasel says, we are all hurt and upset by yesterdays result, but after reading what everyone has to say, I feel a lot happier than I did at 4.50 last eve. What a pleasure it is to belong to such a great forum, with such great people. ( and no, I haven't been on the wine....yet )

Swannie positives

Always nice to everyone
Always complimentary about MOT
Loves her malt & wine
Loves her houndie
Oh and Swannie is a Leeds fan

Negatives

Swannie's Leeds predictions

Rating

11 out of 10

[hector]

You forgot a negative...

Deluded McDonut freak......

[1964white]

You forgot a negative...

Deluded McDonut freak......

Never gave that one a thought mate

[The Subhuman]

Ditto. Feeling better now the raw emotion has subsided, and enjoying reading everyone's point of view.

I'm inclining now to the 'don't panic' side; what we are doing is working well for the majority of games. Our defence has been extremely frugal so far. I don't think getting a big cb is the answer. It was mainly the substitutions yesterday; leave Berardi on and I think we would still have won.

I understand people's nervousness about the 'mentality' of the team after last season, but I think Bielsa's answer, as articulated by Bamford in his interview, is simply practice. We have had another year of playing the system until it becomes second nature, and that is what carries us through. There is an analogy from playing the guitar; as Julian Casablancas said, if you can't do it without thinking about it, then you will fck up.

Bielsa is finding a balance between being completely drilled in his style, and allowing the players free expression. He has said he is standing back more in training this season. Confidence comes both from the players' trust in the system, and the belief in their ability to implement it and improvise around it.

In attack we were brilliant yesterday. This season's 'issue' was supposed to be the inability to score, particularly against big, defensive teams, yet we were 2-0 up within 8 minutes. The first two goals made me laugh out loud with sheer exhilaration. It was actually funny how much better we were than Cardiff. I lost the stream for a while, and when I got back on we'd already scored another. I was thinking then how much I absolutely love this team.

The 'fall from grace' has to be taken in that context. We are still brilliant, and we are still capable of winning this league by a comfortable margin.