Leeds Utd v Manchester Utd Match Thread - No Raphinha for Leeds

[Overman]

Again I’m living more in hope than expectation for this one. My hope is only based on our recent sequence of performances i.e. good, bad, good, bad….

Come on Leeds!

As long as we don't give McTominay the freedom of the park for him to walk through us. We certainly have way of making the mediocre look world class. Frank Lampard for example.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

I don't know why he doesn't adopt a 4-2-3-1 formation against the better sides in the PL, with two DMs.

One wingback can then bomb forward whilst the other one stays back to form MB's favoured backline of 3 CBs when attacking - however the difference is that the two DMs shield the defence. You still end up with one wingback high up the pitch when attacking, the no 10, two wingers and the CF - enough to form the attacking triangles or diamonds which Bielsa loves. The difference is that the team doesn't virtually split into two, with almost nothing in the middle of the park.

Bielsa's project in football management though is to make the 3-3-1-3 formation work by tweaking it in certain ways, and as we know he is very single minded and stubborn...

[WhiteRose]

Dan James Times interview with Henry winter

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dan- ... -lxhwj3070

We knew about murder ball anyway but the way he talks about it it’s no surprise we get so many injuries.

[Kennyb41]

Meslier
Ayling Llorente Struik Dallas
...................Koch
............Forshaw
Raph Rodrigo Harrison
James

Predicted side from a clickbait site, it has Forshaw in front of Koch in perhaps a diamond 4, Rodrigo advanced, probably our best option atm, let's hope he brings Joffy on at some point

[60sUnited]

A point would be great but I just have this vision of how we were so easily carved open in the last 2 games, if we can sort that problem anything is possible.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Meslier
Ayling Llorente Struik Dallas
...................Koch
............Forshaw
Raph Rodrigo Harrison
James

Predicted side from a clickbait site, it has Forshaw in front of Koch in perhaps a diamond 4, Rodrigo advanced, probably our best option atm, let's hope he brings Joffy on at some point

Yeah - essentially a 4-2-3-1.

If he keeps switching to his 3-3-1-3 with the DM dropping back to become a CB when we attack, plus the wingbacks and the no 10 in advanced positions, then you end up with nobody in the middle of the park if we lose possession high up the pitch. That's why in theory there is never meant to be more than a 25m gap between the CBs and the CF with that system. It's a crazy formation against top sides, or maybe against most sides.

This article is interesting ; https://thefieldofgreen.medium.com/the- ... f4d84ab5de

[Byebyegeegee]

Yeah - essentially a 4-2-3-1.

If he keeps switching to his 3-3-1-3 with the DM dropping back to become a CB when we attack, plus the wingbacks and the no 10 in advanced positions, then you end up with nobody in the middle of the park if we lose possession high up the pitch. That's why in theory there is never meant to be more than a 25m gap between the CBs and the CF with that system. It's a crazy formation against top sides, or maybe against most sides.

This article is interesting ; https://thefieldofgreen.medium.com/the- ... f4d84ab5de

An interesting read that Chapel.

Among the downfalls of the 3-3-1-3 formation, and mentioned at the end of the article, is player fatigue. As we know, unlike Karen Carney’s assertion, this does not necessarily happen throughout a single season but I’m just wondering whether our 30+ year old players (and even some of the younger ones) are now suffering fatigue after 4 intense years of playing Bielsaball, physically and even mentally. If so it is almost imperceptible (except in Klich’s case where he looks noticeably less mobile this season) but that maybe why our pressing is not as intense as it needs to be and why we appear to be being beaten to the loose ball.

Just a thought as I’m looking for reasons as to why we’ve struggled so much this year beyond the very obvious injury situation. And even that is not clear cut as we have been struggling from the start of the season (and pre-season) when we were able to play our injury free “best team”.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

An interesting read that Chapel.

Among the downfalls of the 3-3-1-3 formation, and mentioned at the end of the article, is player fatigue. As we know, unlike Karen Carney’s assertion, this does not necessarily happen throughout a single season but I’m just wondering whether our 30+ year old players (and even some of the younger ones) are now suffering fatigue after 4 intense years of playing Bielsaball, physically and even mentally. If so it is almost imperceptible (except in Klich’s case where he looks noticeably less mobile this season) but that maybe why our pressing is not as intense as it needs to be and why we appear to be being beaten to the loose ball.

Just a thought as I’m looking for reasons as to why we’ve struggled so much this year beyond the very obvious injury situation. And even that is not clear cut as we have been struggling from the start of the season (and pre-season) when we were able to play our injury free “best team”.

Thanks Byebye.

It is very interesting, as what the author really highlights is the difficulties the system creates in midfield, and the pressure it puts on the midfield players due to being outnumbered. That heat map picture in the article shows how in that game the middle of the field was left almost deserted by Leeds players.

It mentions how the pivot is put under tremendous pressure - he is usually marked and outnumbered. So much depends on the wingbacks to help out the midfield, however if the team attacks with 3-3-1-3 ( which is Bielsa's way ) but the team is then expected to revert to 4-1-4-1 when out of possession ( also Bielsa's way ) it means that the wingbacks have to get back very quickly from high up the field. In the PL you can be subjected to a very fast counter when you have lots of players committed high up the pitch, so I don't think that Bielsa's way of coping with the defensive frailties of 3-3-1-3 always works that well ie defending with 4-1-4-1. .

Also, with this system the no 10 is expected to play high up the pitch, and is not a box to box midfielder - so that's another reason why the weak spots are directly in front of the defence and in the middle of the park generally.

This is why I think the real issue is a system problem - the injury crisis has been a bit of a smokescreen for this. Obviously losing Phillips has been a major issue, as the DM has such a demanding role within this system, and probably few players in the whole of the PL could do what is required of them if they had to play in that position in that formation. If you play say Klich in that position then you really are asking for trouble - he just can't do it.

[William]

Leeds do have a 75% win rate with 3-3-1-3 I believe, but when it goes it pear shaped it does spectacularly.

Bloody brilliant to watch though

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Leeds do have a 75% win rate with 3-3-1-3 I believe, but when it goes it pear shaped it does spectacularly.

Bloody brilliant to watch though

The formation isn't just used though when they start matches using 3-3-1-3 when up against 2 strikers. They transition to a 3-3-1-3 in the course of matches, having started with a 4-1-4-1. This happens when the two FBs push forward, the DM moves back between the 2 CBs to join the defensive line and the no 8 comes deep to cover in DM.

To make it less risky the idea is to revert back to 4-1-4-1 when out of possession - however if a lot of players are committed up front it is difficult to do quickly. If the wingbacks are caught high up the pitch then acres of space opens up with the DM badly exposed. This is why teams have been able to run straight through our midfield.

[CarelessAir]

I cannot see anything other than a severe hammering with no reply as long as I have a hole in my arse.

Too much overhype with this game as always, and it will be always the same mistakes.

PROVE ME WRONG.

[1964white]

Atmosphere should be good no matter what happens.

Important, our beloved team turn up & not just leave it to the 34,000 Leeds fans.

Leaving here about at 10.30am, just hoping we make a fist of it, the least our fans deserve.

[YorkshireSquare]

We all ready?

[Chilli D]

Looks like Dallas is okay, plenty of photos of him training. I expect Firpo will start on the bench

[Chilli D]

Predicted team
Meslier
Ayling
Llorente
Struijk
Dallas
Raphinha
Koch
Forshaw / Klich
Harrison
Rodrigo
James

Subs: Klaesson, Cresswell, Firpo, Roberts, Gelhardt, Forshaw or Klich, McKinstry, Summerville, Kenneh

[Tyzy]

Does any team play the good old 4-4-2 formation?

Not a good day weather wise for a game of football.

[Leeds1000]

Roll up roll up... Its here the one we have all been waiting for but are all dreading...

After Brook demolished Khan last night lets hope we can make it 2-0 in the war of the rosses.

I have seen Maguire as high as 20-1 to score a header you will all have to forgive me as long as we go on to win 6-1.

Footballs a funny old game and i hope we are all laughing at the right things at the end of the game.

I'm off to the boozer for this one. If you don't see me again i will have had my head kicked in.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Does any team play the good old 4-4-2 formation?

Not a good day weather wise for a game of football.

One or two still do.

[Overman]

The weather could well play an important factor, it's pretty horrendous here at the moment. Not sure who's favour this will work in, it could well be a day of hoof ball.

[weasel]

Looks like Dallas is okay, plenty of photos of him training. I expect Firpo will start on the bench

Or Firpo starting and Dallas in midfield - gives us more energy in there.