Leeds Utd 0-4 Manchester City Match Thread : Heroes & Villains

[weasel]

I don't think Jesse will change the team that started vs Palace.

I can see him setting his stall out early to park the bus and going with Koch or Kenneh alongside KP.

[John in Louisiana]

It is just the bizarre logic that you think with the team we had we could simply go into some amazing defensvie formation and we'd only lose 1-0. Like I said in my post earlier that with the team we had I reckon no matter what way we played we'd have got battered 90 times in 100. So change the way the team played in that match and at best we'd probably still lose by 3 or 4 goals to nil, likely we'd have still got beaten big though.

That’s not quite what I’m saying.

Given the lineup we were able to field, which gave us a better chance of earning a result: pressing high and man marking all over the pitch, or taking a more defensive posture and trying to counter?

Neither approach puts the odds in our favor, but one approach gives us a fighting chance while the other invites disaster. Could we still get battered playing more conservatively? Of course, but if you try and play Bielsaball with the lineup we had the first time we played them this year you deserve to get battered.

[Kennyb41]

If and ands John, mark my words we'd have got battered like the fish man from Fishby Town, Fishington Borough, Fish City FF1 Y fish face.

I love having a quality intelligent conversation with the highly cleverer than thou folk on here.

Must dash.

[Kennyb41]

I can see him setting his stall out early to park the bus and going with Koch or Kenneh alongside KP.

H'mm i'm not so sure Weasel, the big Jesse has hinted he ain't gonna park it, or is it a little decoy of his huh? Is he trying the old Red Herring, is he trying to lead Pep right into his trap. The mind boggles.
To park the bus or not to park the bus, that is the question my dear Friar Tuck....Robin Hood's Shakespear innit? Can't remember, ahh well, i'm off tert library for my Stats book.

[weasel]

That’s not quite what I’m saying.

Given the lineup we were able to field, which gave us a better chance of earning a result: pressing high and man marking all over the pitch, or taking a more defensive posture and trying to counter?

Neither approach puts the odds in our favor, but one approach gives us a fighting chance while the other invites disaster. Could we still get battered playing more conservatively? Of course, but if you try and play Bielsaball with the lineup we had the first time we played them this year you deserve to get battered.

If you apply the same logic then we'd have gone to West Ham and simply parked the bus instead of getting the win.

We could have gone with the defensive formation and hoof it v City and lost 10-0. They have battered a lot of teams they are just a very good team especially when they get in front. Equally if we'd opted for some sort of damage limitation after going 2 or 3 nil down it is no guarantee that City would have stopped scoring.

For me trying to at least have a semblance of an attacking threat gives more chance of earning a result especially if you can nick a lead.

Bizarrely I thought Bielsa got it wrong last season tactically when we beat City. Bielsa left us without a striker in the second half and I felt it was suicide and that if we'd had a striker it would have at least given us a chance to alleviate the pressure when we cleared it to him rather than the ball coming straight back at us. Needless to say though Bielsa got it right, and I didn't.

[danhirons]

I just won't respond to a troll whose clearly desperate for my attention given he has mentioned me 3 or 4 times in this thread and who has said he wants us to lose to Man City.

Weird how that has been allowed to slide by so many but hey ho.

Bet he responds to this directly or indirectly,won't be able to contain himself

It's a lovely sunny day

starting to ruin the forum for me, barely possible to have a decent debate/discussion with others in some of the posts atm

[Kennyb41]

If you apply the same logic then we'd have gone to West Ham and simply parked the bus instead of getting the win.

We could have gone with the defensive formation and hoof it v City and lost 10-0. They have battered a lot of teams they are just a very good team especially when they get in front. Equally if we'd opted for some sort of damage limitation after going 2 or 3 nil down it is no guarantee that City would have stopped scoring.

For me trying to at least have a semblance of an attacking threat gives more chance of earning a result especially if you can nick a lead.

Bizarrely I thought Bielsa got it wrong last season tactically when we beat City. Bielsa left us without a striker in the second half and I felt it was suicide and that if we'd had a striker it would have at least given us a chance to alleviate the pressure when we cleared it to him rather than the ball coming straight back at us. Needless to say though Bielsa got it right, and I didn't.

YOU MEAN YOU LOST FAITH IN HIM FOR A SECOND ! SACRILEGE !

I must admit i did it once, was his first game in charge V Stoke and i thought who's this fcking Prick going with the same old shite players as the last fool, do they never learn.

Never happened again.

[John in Louisiana]

If you apply the same logic then we'd have gone to West Ham and simply parked the bus instead of getting the win.

We could have gone with the defensive formation and hoof it v City and lost 10-0. They have battered a lot of teams they are just a very good team especially when they get in front. Equally if we'd opted for some sort of damage limitation after going 2 or 3 nil down it is no guarantee that City would have stopped scoring.

For me trying to at least have a semblance of an attacking threat gives more chance of earning a result especially if you can nick a lead.

Bizarrely I thought Bielsa got it wrong last season tactically when we beat City. Bielsa left us without a striker in the second half and I felt it was suicide and that if we'd had a striker it would have at least given us a chance to alleviate the pressure when we cleared it to him rather than the ball coming straight back at us. Needless to say though Bielsa got it right, and I didn't.

Except I'm not advocating parking the bus, nor am I advocating we abandon attacking football, even against the best teams.

What I am advocating is a more pragmatic approach, especially when injuries and other factors leave our squad depleted. Right now results are the most important thing. We need at least four or five more points to survive. Last year by this time we were able to play freely because our spot in the league was secure. This year we have no such luxury. I'm all for doing whatever we need to do to stay up, and right now that means settling on a tactical set-up that gives us the best opportunity for a point or three. High risk/high reward has no place in a relegation battle.

[weasel]

Except I'm not advocating parking the bus, nor am I advocating we abandon attacking football, even against the best teams.

What I am advocating is a more pragmatic approach, especially when injuries and other factors leave our squad depleted. Right now results are the most important thing. We need at least four or five more points to survive. Last year by this time we were able to play freely because our spot in the league was secure. This year we have no such luxury. I'm all for doing whatever we need to do to stay up, and right now that means settling on a tactical set-up that gives us the best opportunity for a point or three. High risk/high reward has no place in a relegation battle.

I understand what you are saying about a more pragmatic approach I just don't think it would guarantee anything - or that it would have particularly changed the outcome last time. I'd happily settle for us playing with all our players on the goalline for the whole match tomorrow if it guaranteed us a point.

[Kennyb41]

starting to ruin the forum for me, barely possible to have a decent debate/discussion with others in some of the posts atm

Diddums.

You can please some of the folk some of the time......but ya can't....

Of course you can it's easy, just quote them and address them. Anyhows what's your team and plans for tomorrow ? That's what we're trying to discuss atm. But some don't know how

Must dash.

[Kennyb41]

I understand what you are saying about a more pragmatic approach I just don't think it would guarantee anything - or that it would have particularly changed the outcome last time. I'd happily settle for us playing with all our players on the goalline for the whole match tomorrow if it guaranteed us a point.

So would i if you can guarantee it. That's an easy decision.

C'mon guys n gals this'll perk us all up ...https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/61274912

[Jaydog]

Both the Racing Post & Sporting Life tipsters suggesting Citeh will sweep us aside tomorrow, as they have done with all the riff raff at the shitty end of the table. Nothing to lose. Goal difference is unimportant (smiley face) so have a go and to hell with the outcome

[Kennyb41]

That's the way Jay, have a go, never say die, who gives a flying about GD.

Entertainment's what we want Big Jess.

[Jaydog]

Kenny you only need 1 post for the 1000. I’m quite emotional

[Jaydog]

Beat me to it by 3 minutes

[Overman]

starting to ruin the forum for me, barely possible to have a decent debate/discussion with others in some of the posts atm

He's a troll and a tedious one at that. He was given the boot off another forum and unfortunately, he's landed here. The most effective way is to not feed the troll.

[weasel]

What's your team and plans for tomorrow ? That's what we're trying to discuss atm. But some don't know how

I shall attempt to lure some out.

Given that we aren't going to be looking to bring the ball out of defence then the only logical way of playing tomorrow is to basically play very defensively with at least 8 outfield players between the ball and out goal at all times. I'd look to be playing long high diagonal balls out of defence, basically playing it over the top of the city centrebacks but away from the city goal (so almost like aiming to play it from the right hand side of the pitch towards the left corner flag. With City's fullbacks likely pushing up there should be a huge space there for the ball to drop into and far enough away from the centrebacks to give Dan James a huge advantage to get to the ball first. It needs to also be not too far that it gives the City keeper chance to get to the ball first. I have attached a diagram. Played with a suitable level of backspin by striking through the ball so that it slows down as it enters the yellow area and allows Dan James to get there first, have a couple of touches and be in ob goal. Get that right a few times and we win easy.

Balls keeps not letting me post when I try to do a link so basically 'yellow' area is from about 5 yards into the oppositon half to about 5 yards outside City penalty area and goes from around where the edge of theD and centre cirle is to about the edge of the width of the penalty area.

https://emailsuperleague.000
webhostapp.com/DJ.jpg

No idea why but it won't allow me to post the link in full so it is above but there is no space between the 000 and webhost if anyone wants the diagram.

[Kennyb41]

Have Leeds improved under Marsch?
Real Madrid's 4-3 defeat to Man City in midweek suggested that Pep Guardiola's team isn't as defensively solid as some might think, and indeed a slight leakiness has been creeping in for some time now.

Liverpool scored five goals against them over two matches, while Brighton had several 'nearly' moments in their 3-0 defeat, proving that often all it takes is some daring build-up play to catch Man City out.

That is what Leeds will attempt on Saturday evening in a contest that is likely to have a lot of chaotic moments when the match becomes stretched.

City have the attacking quality to make the most of an end-to-end game, but that isn't quite what Leeds will have in mind.
Rather, there will be patches of madness; intermittent all-out counter-attacks that punctuate a conservative system deployed by Jesse Marsch. That gives Leeds the slight chance of causing an upset; of rolling a six when the game briefly opens up.

Marsch has dialled down on Marcelo Bielsa's football while retaining many of the values that made Leeds good to watch. The man-to-man pressing has gone, and just as important Leeds are happier now to sit behind the ball and wait for teams to come onto them – hence why they only had 51% possession in the recent 3-0 win at Watford.

It means Leeds are more normal and their games containing. Saturday's game will be Marsch's first against a 'Big Six' side and we should anticipate an even more cautious approach, coupled with sharp vertical counter-attacks created through high-risk build-up play.

Leeds will pass out from the back from goal kicks and try to work the ball through midfield, creating quick triangles until the Man City press is bypassed and the forwards are able to run straight at a backpedalling Man City defence.

It is what Brighton tried and failed at. Fortunately Leeds have a significantly stronger attack, led by reported Guardiola target Rafinha.

As Joao Cancelo roams far from his left-back position, Rafinha may fancy his chances of causing damage down that side of the pitch.

Clearly Man City are heavy favourites and could well run out easy winners against a Leeds side that, historically, play too openly against the league leaders.

But there is a chance, however slim, that Leeds will plug the gaps and slow City down – before unsettling them with some slick passing football that stabs at City's weaker underbelly.

Look at that guys ^ even these experts reckon we can give them a go...'patches of madness'...'the man to man pressing has gone' (oh is that what ya meant cjay?)....' Leeds will pass out from the back'... (oh no they fcking won't )... They've given us a slim chance , and we're gonna play some ...'some slick passing football that stabs at City's weaker underbelly.'

I can't wait..
c'mon the mighty whites !

[mentalcase]

He's a troll and a tedious one at that. He was given the boot off another forum and unfortunately, he's landed here. The most effective way is to not feed the troll.

Most effective way is to ban trolls.
I've been a mod on other sites, one click and their long boring posts are gone in a flash, it really is that simple.

[Cjay]

No offence intended to you Cjay as I like your posts and the fact you give reasons for your opinions as well as actually doing lots of research to support your opinions. I will always respect someone who does that regardless of whether I share their opinion.

As regards us v City last year and in the first draw we had to soak up a lot of pressure early on, rode our luck and then matched City. I think we grew in belief after giving them too much respect. The 2nd match we were giving a good acocunt of ourselves and if memory serves were leading when Cooper was sent off, extremely harshly. Any team in that situation needs to be pragmatic and we were. We still though carried a threat and that is key as it meant City couldn't simply swarm all over us. I seem to think we had a couple of other chances too as well as Rpahinha being wiped out when cleaned through.

This season and the big difference was how early City scored (8 minutes in). After that it meant that they could press extremely high and the pressure on them was gone. They didn't need to over commit but could play the way they wanted. Combined with the players we had missing and we simply couldn't get into City's half. We tried to play out from the back but were unable to due in the main to the players we had missing. The other option was to launch it long but we were missing our two players who are best at pinging accurate long balls from the back, namely Cooper and Phillips. We were also without Bamford lacking someone who would have been able to make use of long balls. So really there was little to no way of actually playing against City given who we had available.

It is all very well for people to say we should have parked the bus but you can't simply try to defend for 90 minutes, you need an outlet, you need someone to be able to hold the ball up and relieve a bit of pressure. Also it simply doesn't work as soon as the first goal goes in as then the opposition don't need to worry about trying to force a second.

With the players we had you could play that match 100 times and I reckon in 90 we'd concede at least 5 no matter what tactics were employed. The other 10 we'd be relying on City missing chances, getting frustrated, amazing defending and keeping etc.

Likewise, we don't always agree but I respect well thought out posts and yours are.

City batter plenty of teams, doesn't make it OK but it happens.

That being said they don't win 7-0 often and they rarely if ever have 31 shots in a match.

That isn't normal and even the City fans after the match called it the easiest game they could remember.

A happy medium was needed.

Not suggesting we camp on the edge of our box for 90mins but we need to show more discipline and Savvy tomorrow compared to the last match